My Weekend Project

[talonXracer]

Well this picture should just about sum up my weekend...

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g96/talonxracer/IMG_07551.jpg

***UPDATE***

Here is one of the Hotchkiss endlinks after just 8 months, including 1 winter in upstate NY.
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g96/talonxracer/IMG_07591.jpg


And here we have the LCA and Coilovers installed,
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g96/talonxracer/IMG_0758.jpg

OH yes a ITR sway bar is on it's way, there is no way to adapt this kind of difference.......
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g96/talonxracer/IMG_0757.jpg

***UPDATE***

Here is a pic comparing the ITR vrs EP3 front sway.
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g96/talonxracer/IMG_0760i.jpg

***UPDATE***

Well I finally replaced the lower ball joint boots and got the fronts fully assembled. The toe is way off and I cant get in for an alignment till thursday, so I will take a few trips around the block and get it close enough to drive to the alignment shop safely. I didnt have my torch available to cut the rear MugenSS out, but I did change out all the corroded Hotchkiss endlinks for OEM ones. Notice the liberal use of anti-sieze during reassembly!!!

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g96/talonxracer/IMG_0773.jpg

[Tnhatch03]

mmm....

very nice!

[talonXracer]

Yeah the MugenSS blew their wad some miles ago. Maybe I will remove the Showa dampers, install a set of Konis and sell them.

Oh, and seeing as the struts are DC5 spec, I have a set of typeS tierod ends to swap out as well. The BITCH will be the rear struts lower bolt, they are both "frozen"....

[Tnhatch03]

ouch.

sounds like you need to move to a warmer climate...lol

[oldschoolimport]

The BITCH will be the rear struts lower bolt, they are both "frozen"....

I still have a scar on my arm from trying to remove some frozen lower bolts last year at the maryland BBQ. :mbiggrin:

[thisisagame24]

are those the progress coilovers?

[talonXracer]

are those the progress coilovers?


Yes, they are the Progress coilovers for the DC5.

I will also be installing the EM2 swaybar, that will be connected up with Hotchkiss endlinks.

[oogy-boogy]

Holy $hit Doug....you're powerwashing the driveway!

[talonXracer]

That is the garage floor:mcry:

A full winters worth of crap on the floor

Because it has a blacktop floor and not concrete it isnt considered a permanent improved structure for tax purposes.

[oogy-boogy]

Just busting your stones.

Nice purchase. Looking forward to your write up / review.

[02_epdriver]

Nice weekend project

[ghettotech]

very nice project you got....cant wait to see the results!

[thisisagame24]

what company makes those LCAs?

[mustclime]

looks fun......but I am not so sure the em2 bar is going to work with the wider type-r LCA.....

[civictype_r04]

Looks like fun. Maybe you can get a diy up after your all done?

[shadowmd]

sessy! me want! lol

[jdm_ep3]

man you are going to love those coilovers! when i had mine on my old red ep3 i love them so much and made a huge difference after alignment. after i installed them i had it aligned to this specs:

-1.75 degree up fronts
-.85 degree in the rear with a little bit of toe in i think 1/24 or something like that.

i loved it man corners like no other. will to compliment it i also had ctr 22mm rear way, dc front strutbar, nuepeed rear H bar.

[koi_killa]

i wish i had a fun and interesting project for my weekend.


for the frozen bolts i would recomend some heat (tourch) and allot of persuation (larg pipe) best of luck and congrats, your making me jealous!



zee

[bmyers4321]

congrats man!!!

but have fun with that frozen bolt. i had that happen to me when installing my D-specs. ended up having to torch the loop around the bushing and prying it apart and then cut the bushing out. it was the worst 3 hours ive spend on my car.

[talonXracer]

looks fun......but I am not so sure the em2 bar is going to work with the wider type-r LCA.....

I just held them up and they are the same width. The issue is the angle at which the endlink bolts up, the stock end links dont work but the Hotchkiss do(because they are adjustable, or so I have been told, but it looks like it will work with no issues.

I looked at them again and I dont think the EM2 bar will fit without useing some spacers. I will see what it looks like after they are installed.

[Jpax]

did you get adjustable endlinks?

nice aliuminum control arms. should lighten it up by 10 lbs total.

[clujalolo]

dang you sure are dumping some serious money......you happen to have a money treee in the backyard.

[talonXracer]

dang you sure are dumping some serious money......you happen to have a money treee in the backyard.

The car is paid off. I continue to make a payment every month, but it goes into a account with it's own credit/debit card just for the car. When it comes time for a repair or mod, the money is there.

[talonXracer]

WHAT a ball buster! The tierod ends are free from the struts, but they are rusted tight onto the tierod. I got the jamnuts free and have them soaking with PB Blaster. The struts are out and when the PB has done it's magic I will swap in the typeS ends.

While they are soaking I wanted to start on the LCA's, someone decided to borrow my ball joint seperator and none of the stores have the proper type. BREAK TIME!

[!@#$%]

What a buzzkill.

[MugsyTheGr8]

i remember back when i was into rc cars, there was nothing better then having ups ring your door bell, and being able to open up a big box of parts. im still waiting for that day to come for my ep.

[lazeebeast35]

nice set up, let us know what your ride feels like. Im looking at different coilovers and not sure what to get yet. Have fun bro.

[mario543k20]

i have ep specific progress coils. there awesome. i havent dropped my ep yet as i havent gotten rid of my winter tires yet.. but when i get low profile tires, ill be slamming my ep to the ground!!

[SiRCivic03]

Talon,
Did you ever think of doing the energy suspension bushing kit install since you have all those parts off the car? Those bushings are supossed to help out a whole lot, improved steering feel, cornering speeds, and those bushings won't get ripped apart like the stock ones do if you auto-x, or for you doing some mountain runs etc. Just curious.

[Teejay]

Yo talon good luck with the install bro! For those frozen bolts use a lot of pb blaster a torch and hot ice. Heat up the bolt then put the hot ice on it. the shaft will expand with the heat and the bolt will contract with the cold then a breaker bar will do the rest. Lil trick i learned from working on my 9 ef's

[talonXracer]

Talon,
Did you ever think of doing the energy suspension bushing kit install since you have all those parts off the car? Those bushings are supossed to help out a whole lot, improved steering feel, cornering speeds, and those bushings won't get ripped apart like the stock ones do if you auto-x, or for you doing some mountain runs etc. Just curious.


Already have them installed, that is one reason I went with the Mugen LCA's, the harder rubber inserts. The ES poly insert for the LCA's front bushing doesnt last very long.


Yo talon good luck with the install bro! For those frozen bolts use a lot of pb blaster a torch and hot ice. Heat up the bolt then put the hot ice on it. the shaft will expand with the heat and the bolt will contract with the cold then a breaker bar will do the rest. Lil trick i learned from working on my 9 ef's

I was able to loosen the tierod ends themselves, the jam nuts were really bad, so I cut them off with a cutoff wheel, took a whole 30 seconds per nut. I need to find my die set and chase the tierod threads to clean up the rust.



One thing that I have noticed is that I did not need to use any camber bolts only OEM bolt's. With the MugenSS and the extended lower ball joints I couldnt get ANY negative camber, it sat with the top of the tires further out! I had to use a OEM camber bolt in the top hole and a SPC camber bolt in the bottom just to get 1.5 degrees of camber! This tells me the Progress has a fair amount of built in camber.

[talonXracer]

Here is one of the Hotchkiss endlinks after just 8 months, including 1 winter in upstate NY.
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g96/talonxracer/IMG_07591.jpg


And here we have the LCA and Coilovers installed,
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g96/talonxracer/IMG_0758.jpg

OH yes a ITR sway bar is on it's way, there is no way to adapt this kind of difference.......
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g96/talonxracer/IMG_0757.jpg

[SiRCivic03]

Oh Mugen LCA's thats awesome. What part, if you were to install them hypotheticly, would the j's racing roll center adjusters bolt to? I just ask because you have some pictures that would be easy to circle with paint or something.

[talonXracer]

Oh Mugen LCA's thats awesome. What part, if you were to install them hypotheticly, would the j's racing roll center adjusters bolt to? I just ask because you have some pictures that would be easy to circle with paint or something.

The J's RCA's bolt up to the 02'-04' ITR LCA's.......That is exactly what my setup is, notice the extra space between the arm and knuckle? If you look you can see that the ball joint boot is damaged, dont know how!

[SiRCivic03]

oh, crap i do see it now. wow your setup is right on point. When you get it all finished i wonder how your EP would compare to one with just the normal suspension mods like I have for instance:coilovers, rear swaybar /endlinks, chassis tie bars, camber kit, good alignment, EM front sway bar.
Like what i mean is your mods take it to another level having LCA's, roll center adjsuters, all that.
Even though i think my mods have far improved my handling over stock in my opinon, i wonder if your car would feel dramaticly different/ improved still.

[talonXracer]

I also have a XX and V brace installed, harness bar etc.

[civictype_r04]

Looks good so far man.

[meklz]

have fun
;)

[metalviper]

dang im jealous! looks like freakin rustville under your car man. well ill be expecting a full review of everything! :mtongue:

[RHCP0801]

looks nice man, sure it rides good too

[Zeth]

just ordered the progress competition coilovers myself.... cant wait!

[mustclime]

I just held them up and they are the same width. The issue is the angle at which the endlink bolts up, the stock end links dont work but the Hotchkiss do(because they are adjustable, or so I have been told, but it looks like it will work with no issues.

I looked at them again and I dont think the EM2 bar will fit without useing some spacers. I will see what it looks like after they are installed.

Sorry man, I wished you had asked me....since you are going up to 25.4mm hollow in the front, I suggest you look at a cusco 25mm solid in the rear( they were designed for dc5 type-r's).....that or the big "H" 27mm hollow rear bar with end links... By this time next year I hope to be on type-r lca...after I upgrade the drive shafts....I may have to look into a 5 lug conversion though...I want 9 inch wide wheels in the front.....:mtongue:

[jdm_ep3]

how did your install go? did you have to mod anything to fit?

[FoReVaPmP]

:hippie:

[Zeth]

my progress coils are on order from progress so hopefully they come sometime in the next month

[Draw7Seven]

Here is one of the Hotchkiss endlinks after just 8 months, including 1 winter in upstate NY.

Don't winters in upstate NY LAST 8 months?

[Windchaser]

damn, that's a nice weekend project.

[talonXracer]

I have a typeR front sway, 24mm with 4mm thick walls.


I am waiting on a new ball joint boot to get here and a 14mmx1.5 thread chaser/die(to clean up tierod threads). With the current fuel prices it is alot cheaper to have tools and parts shipped 2 days from Cali than to drive around and search for the tools/parts around here(I live an hour from any usefull autoparts store).


The Progress coilovers when set at a 1.5" drop are significantly shorter than the MugenSS(stock length struts).

[talonXracer]

Here is a pic comparing the ITR vrs EP3 front sway.
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g96/talonxracer/IMG_0760i.jpg

[civictype_r04]

^^ Wow that is a big difference from the EP3 stock one.

[mustclime]

Here is a pic comparing the ITR vrs EP3 front sway.
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g96/talonxracer/IMG_0760i.jpg

check the clearance on the shifter cables, you may have to bend the holding bracket a little....rememver the "hump" part of the sway moves back and forth on dips....

[talonXracer]

Yeah I have it installed, I had to manipulate the shift cable bracket a little to install it. I was going to try to reuse the EP3 sway bushings until I could scrounge up a set of typeS bushings, but they are wasted and dont even fit the EP3 swaybar anymore,,,worn the fukc out!

The ITR sway is SMALLER in dia and wall thickness than the EP3 sway, it is 24.2mm and 3.2 wall thickness, while the EP3 is 25.4mm with a 4mm wall.

[cerebrous]

Bump to know if the Stock ep3 ball joints fit on the mugen arms or do I have to go J's rca

[mustclime]

Bump to know if the Stock ep3 ball joints fit on the mugen arms or do I have to go J's rca

just get the lca from king motor sports....they put a shim in them so your lower ball joint fits:mwink:

[talonXracer]

The Mugen LCA's are available for both size lower ball joints. The J's extended RCA ball joints are the same size as the stock EP3 lower ball joint as well as the 02'-04' typeS ball joints.

[56chevydan]

Talon- Where's the best place to order the Progress coilovers and what was the cost??
We need an update when you get the ep back on the road with the new setup.

I'm curious too what your overall impression is of the Mugen SS suspension that you just pulled off your car?? I just called King Motor Sports today and $1300.00 shipped is a little on the pricey side if the Mugen SS isn't going to last.

[v1c10us]

in the middle of the ITR sway it looks like its angled opposite of the ep3 sway
is that cause it came off a RHD car? if so, will it hit something that the ep3 sway bar was avoiding by being bent the other way in the middle?
edit: i read up a couple posts and see you got it installed, why is it bent the opposite and did that cause you any trouble?

[oldschoolimport]

in the middle of the ITR sway it looks like its angled opposite of the ep3 sway
is that cause it came off a RHD car? if so, will it hit something that the ep3 sway bar was avoiding by being bent the other way in the middle?
edit: i read up a couple posts and see you got it installed, why is it bent the opposite and did that cause you any trouble?
its for the shifter cable bracket, if I remember correctly. he said he had to re-position the cables, and it cleared.

[talonXracer]

Talon- Where's the best place to order the Progress coilovers and what was the cost??
We need an update when you get the ep back on the road with the new setup.

I'm curious too what your overall impression is of the Mugen SS suspension that you just pulled off your car?? I just called King Motor Sports today and $1300.00 shipped is a little on the pricey side if the Mugen SS isn't going to last.


The best place to order Progress coilovers is directly thru Progress. They do not make suspension kits for inventory, they make them up in batchs as the orders come in, they have ALWAYS done business this way.

The MugenSS had lasted over 125K miles, and three years. That was on-par with the stockies. Remember that performance parts usually last less time than stock parts, so the MugenSS lasted for a above average time.

[talonXracer]

in the middle of the ITR sway it looks like its angled opposite of the ep3 sway
is that cause it came off a RHD car? if so, will it hit something that the ep3 sway bar was avoiding by being bent the other way in the middle?
edit: i read up a couple posts and see you got it installed, why is it bent the opposite and did that cause you any trouble?


its for the shifter cable bracket, if I remember correctly. he said he had to re-position the cables, and it cleared.


That is correct Wes !

[talonXracer]

***UPDATE***

Well I finally replaced the lower ball joint boots and got the fronts fully assembled. The toe is way off and I cant get in for an alignment till thursday, so I will take a few trips around the block and get it close enough to drive to the alignment shop safely. I didnt have my torch available to cut the rear MugenSS out, but I did change out all the corroded Hotchkiss endlinks for OEM ones. Notice the liberal use of anti-sieze during reassembly!!!

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g96/talonxracer/IMG_0773.jpg

The front suspension is velvety smooth compared to the MugenSS! I only have driving around a little, the front coilovers are absolutely awesome.

[Ep3kp]

hey do you have a jdm 5 lug assembly or is that stock? Last time i saw those control arms on kingmotorsports they stated that you need the jdm 5 lug with the brembo brake setup.

[talonXracer]

You need the arms to be modified to fit the smaller 02'-05'EP3 and 02'-04'DC5S lower ball joint. Mugen arms come ready to rock and roll with the EP3. You can also use the 05'-06'DC5S knuckle as they have the same lower ball joint as the ITR.

[Ep3kp]

sorry, im alittle confused when you say modify arm do you mean the control arm? i have an 02 ep, what would i need to do to install the mugen LCA?

[phill]

i thought stock axels wouldnt work with the mugen lca's?

:meek: can it be done without?

and what header are you running if you dont mind me asking?

[talonXracer]

sorry, im alittle confused when you say modify arm do you mean the control arm? i have an 02 ep, what would i need to do to install the mugen LCA?

Mugen already does the modifications, all you have to do is order the correct ones.



i thought stock axels wouldnt work with the mugen lca's?

:meek: can it be done without?

and what header are you running if you dont mind me asking?


I know of many individuals running the Mugen arms and stock axles, it is when you have the complete typeR suspension, ie the ITR LCA and ITR knuckle that will require the longer typeR axles.

I am running a Swain coated SSR Tri-Y header.

[FoReVaPmP]

:msmile:

[dichotomous]

have you cut off the rear bolts yet? I'm planning on cutting mine off this thursday. my current plan is a cutoff wheel straight down either side on the insides of the mount to cut through the bolts and sleeves and everything, then just figure out how to get the stub out of the threads at the end of cut that nut off and replace with an actual seperate nut. if you have a better idea I'd love to hear it. its very near my gas tank or I wouldnt mind a torch, and may have to go with one, but I would rather not if it can be done with a cutoff wheel

[talonXracer]

As long as you place a heat blanket over the tank you have nothing to worry about. I used to use a torch and weld steel fuel tanks all the time, as long as they are full, they wont explode,,,,,gas itself does not burn, it has to have air present to be flammable.

I will cut the bolt head and nut off the backside with a torch. I dont think there is enough room to get a cutoff wheel in there and fully cut thru without starting to hit the arm or mount.

[Ep3kp]

hey thanx man for that info, it sounds like something i may eventually do. When or if you have already got your alignment, let us know how those Progress Coilovers are. Couple Questions on those coilovers, 1. I've read somewhere that they have lower steering arms to correct our V issue is that true? 2. I also heard that the Progress Coilovers are non-adjustable dampers, if so whats your take on that?

[oogy-boogy]

Doug, have you tried musty's idea with tapping the bushing and adding lube? When my rears seized it ended up being the bushing and not the bolt.

[talonXracer]

You can see the bolt actually starts to turn, but the bushing and rubber also turn, that indicates the bushing is siezed to the bolt, unfortunatly..... 5-10 minutes or less with a torch and I can have them out.

[oogy-boogy]

I torched the living crap out of mine. I ended up having to cut off the tack welded nut. I had to use a crowbar and a whole load of tools to get them out. What a royal PIA...

[SinisterCivicSi]

I also have a XX and V brace installed, harness bar etc.

i hate you. lol

i am loving your setup, maybe one day i will get those lca's those are really nice. i gotta read up on your setup again. its amazing doug. :mbiggrin:

[Princess]

[img]http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g96/talonxracer/IMG_07591.jpg[/img[
Wow, how can you live somewhere that just chews your car up with rust. California might have so very strict laws about modding cars, but at least we don't get rusty.

Anyways, good luck with your project, looks like you know what you're doing.

[oogy-boogy]

[img]http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g96/talonxracer/IMG_07591.jpg[/img[
Wow, how can you live somewhere that just chews your car up with rust. California might have so very strict laws about modding cars, but at least we don't get rusty.

Pink tint negates all opinions. :mbiggrin:

[mustclime]

You can see the bolt actually starts to turn, but the bushing and rubber also turn, that indicates the bushing is siezed to the bolt, unfortunatly..... 5-10 minutes or less with a torch and I can have them out.

I hate the ideal of using torch on suspension parts, you can change the temper of the sorrounding steel.....

My fix for the rear lower shock bolt is to drill a bunch of holes in the bushing that are the size of a PB Blaster tube into the bushing sleeve( both from under the car and from the wheel well) and then blow in the Blaster....3 hours later, it came right out....The bushing is not heat treated, so a new drill bit eats it like butter......I even drilled through the shock loop to get to the center of bushing....:mwink:

[talonXracer]

I will give that a try Scott, someone had mentioned that, but untill you said how big the holes are it didnt make sense, now it does.

[dichotomous]

heh heh, a few bigger holes than that and it might just lose grip with the bolt anways.... heh heh. we'll be sure to have a sawzall and torch on hand to cut through things the fast way, but I'll give the holes and blaster idea a try, heck if I swiss cheese it enough from all sides and oil it it at least cant hurt things. We are also cleaning out the garage tonight so we can drill and soak them and wait for a little while and do some cleaning and eating, then get back to shocks. this might work

[mustclime]

I will give that a try Scott, someone had mentioned that, but untill you said how big the holes are it didnt make sense, now it does.

read through this....

http://forums.clubep3.net/showthread.php?t=572704

[PAPITUYO326]

How are you liking the J's RCAs?

I can't seem to find any replacement ball joints for my ITR setup other than the oems for 80 a pop. At that price, might as well jump for the J's units. Any comments on how they feel/have held up?

[20CiviC02Si]

Talon i'll be following in your footsteps in these next coming months. So if i have any ?'s i'll hit you up. The current setup i am looking into getting is:

- DC5R LCAs
- DC5R Front Sway
- Mugen Bushings from King (Having them press in the bushings so i can still use the EP3 suspension)
- J's RCA's
- J's SPL Steering Arms
- If need be DSS ITR OEM Replacement Axles

I am piecing together this setup already. Picking up the control arms for $100 and the bushings are $170. I just have to drive over to King and talk to my buddy Mike L. about the bushings. The rest i am going to be working on saving up for.

[talonXracer]

How are you liking the J's RCAs?

I can't seem to find any replacement ball joints for my ITR setup other than the oems for 80 a pop. At that price, might as well jump for the J's units. Any comments on how they feel/have held up?

I had them installed with the MugenSS and OEM LCA's and they did affect how she felt in the turns. Even more so with the ITR control arms and Progress coil overs.

As it sits right now there is just the slightest amount more of body roll in the turns, but far more traction and the rear doesnt want to tuck in, it just tracks along fine, starts to lift the inside rear a little.

[20CiviC02Si]

I had them installed with the MugenSS and OEM LCA's and they did affect how she felt in the turns. Even more so with the ITR control arms and Progress coil overs. As it sits right now there is just the slightest amount more of body roll in the turns, but far more traction and the rear doesnt want to tuck in, it just tracks along fine, starts to lift the inside rear a little.Wouldn't the body roll be caused by the thinner front sway more so than the J's RCAs?

I have been tossing the idea around of not installing the ITR OEM Front Sway and opting for a stiffer Swift or Hotchkis setup. I understand that this would produce more understeer, however with it paired to a 27mm adjustable rear sway i think it would be pretty neutral.

[talonXracer]

That is exactly where the increased body roll came from. I would much rather have just a simdgeon of body roll rather than loose traction. I surely wouldnt go with a stiffer swaybar setup.

[Windchaser]

It really depends if you prefer understeer or oversteer. Getting a bigger rear sway bar or a smaller front sway bar will lead you to fighting one or the other.

[Ba82Ep3]

Looks guud. :mwink: I dunno if i would wanna lose the use of my Hotchkis bars to swap out the front end components though. They make the EP handle so well. :mfrown:

Are the USDM 06 RSX-S LCA's the same as the JDM/Mugen parts? Im ordering my RSX-S front brake parts (caliper sets/rotors) in a few days... was thinking about replacin the hubs to get rid of the 70k miles of abuse they have seen... but dunno which hubs to get that would be useable with the new LCA's.

If the 06 USDM RSX-S front LCA's are the same as the ITR LCA's, then just buying the whole 06 RSX-S setup should work fine... right?

(LCA's/FSwayB/hubs/caliper sets/rotors and hardware)

[talonXracer]

Looks guud. :mwink: I dunno if i would wanna lose the use of my Hotchkis bars to swap out the front end components though. They make the EP handle so well. :mfrown:

Are the USDM 06 RSX-S LCA's the same as the JDM/Mugen parts? Im ordering my RSX-S front brake parts (caliper sets/rotors) in a few days... was thinking about replacin the hubs to get rid of the 70k miles of abuse they have seen... but dunno which hubs to get that would be useable with the new LCA's.

If the 06 USDM RSX-S front LCA's are the same as the ITR LCA's, then just buying the whole 06 RSX-S setup should work fine... right?

(LCA's/FSwayB/hubs/caliper sets/rotors and hardware)


No, the 06' LCA's are not the same as the ITR LCA's.
The type of LCA has no impact on which hub to use, the hub fits into the knuckle. I would get new bearings to go with the DC5 hubs(also remember that you will need DC5S axles when going to the larger splined typeS hubs).

[Ba82Ep3]

Thanks Doug. It was something i heard in passing at a recent meet. Dude is sellin his red 06 RSX-S and that was one of the things he was talking about... the OEM LCA's being the same as the ITR's. Checking out your project here brought that back to memory...

Ill just get the Mugen LCA's, and hope they handle well with the JDM f/r sways. I have waay too many projects and not enough time/money. LOL