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View Full Version : Miracle X Brace



knowgood
05-26-2008, 06:25 PM
So now that it has been released for DC5s whos gonna try to fit one on an ep. In my theory DC5 rear sturt bars fit, and the c pillar bars almost fit so it should be pretty close assuming (eek) the distance between the two points is the same.

edit: upon further investigation the bar doesn't appear to mount in the same location as a rear strut bar...or am i buggin out?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v498/chanzheng/zheng/n1%20concepts/NeXt/DC5/MCBforDC5-h-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v498/chanzheng/zheng/n1%20concepts/NeXt/DC5/MCBforDC5-g-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v498/chanzheng/zheng/n1%20concepts/NeXt/DC5/MCBforDC5-f-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v498/chanzheng/zheng/n1%20concepts/NeXt/DC5/MCBforDC5-e-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v498/chanzheng/zheng/n1%20concepts/NeXt/DC5/MCBforDC5-d-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v498/chanzheng/zheng/n1%20concepts/NeXt/DC5/MCBforDC5-c-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v498/chanzheng/zheng/n1%20concepts/NeXt/DC5/MCBforDC5-b-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v498/chanzheng/zheng/n1%20concepts/NeXt/DC5/MCBforDC5-a-1.jpg

.colin
05-26-2008, 06:32 PM
hell yeah! somebody buy this ive been waiting for this forever!

knowgood
05-26-2008, 06:35 PM
I'm considering it and if it doesn't fit, flip it to some dc5 guy.

.colin
05-26-2008, 06:38 PM
just from past experience with a dc5 cpillar bar though, i don't think it will fit. the bar had to be tighted all the way down to fit into the hatch, which leads me to believe the back of the dc5 is bigger. the miracle bar uses fixed joints, so it can't be adjusted. it will probably fit, but will need cut down.

knowgood
05-26-2008, 06:46 PM
What do you mean fixed? They look pretty adjustable to me.

http://icbmotorsport.com/New/X_Bar_Hardware.jpg

The silver screws go into the ends of the bars and the joints go onto those screws.

.colin
05-26-2008, 06:47 PM
hmmm idk then. buy it and let us know how it fit

civiCholo
05-26-2008, 06:49 PM
What do you mean fixed? They look pretty adjustable to me.

http://icbmotorsport.com/New/X_Bar_Hardware.jpg

The silver screws go into the ends of the bars and the joints go onto those screws.

he means you can't adjust the width or the height of the x brace bar...

civictype_r04
05-26-2008, 07:00 PM
That looks sick someone get it and try it out.

Soprano21
05-26-2008, 07:02 PM
someone should buy and see how it fits................or heres my question why not make one for the EP

knowgood
05-26-2008, 07:11 PM
he means you can't adjust the width or the height of the x brace bar...

I don't think you've ever seen how an x brace is mounted. You don't have much room to play with but I think it might be enough.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa280/NickCone/X_Bar_Hardware.jpg

.colin
05-27-2008, 03:46 PM
anyone get this yet? :mcool:

Godhand
05-27-2008, 03:49 PM
I heard the complete setup is close to $600.

chrispychicken
05-27-2008, 06:32 PM
I really want to try this out! I think i'll be the first to do it. hahahahaha jk!!

knowgood
05-27-2008, 06:41 PM
I heard the complete setup is close to $600.

You heard wrong. You can get it from N1 concepts for about $459 shipped.

If I don't get wheels soon then I'll get this.

civictype_r04
05-27-2008, 07:07 PM
You heard wrong. You can get it from N1 concepts for about $459 shipped.

If I don't get wheels soon then I'll get this.

The price sounds okay.

JDMCivicEP3
05-28-2008, 12:26 AM
It doesn't fit (well, without a little modification). My friend has the brace, but the distance from the strut mount to the c-pillar mount is longer for the DC5, or so it seems. the holes don't line up in the EP3 too well either. BTW, the quality of the bar was not what I expected @ all. It's a little shitty and the welds are nothing like Carbing.

.colin
05-28-2008, 03:32 AM
It doesn't fit (well, without a little modification). My friend has the brace, but the distance from the strut mount to the c-pillar mount is longer for the DC5, or so it seems. the holes don't line up in the EP3 too well either. BTW, the quality of the bar was not what I expected @ all. It's a little shitty and the welds are nothing like Carbing.

of course its shiny, its stainless steel and the welds aren't the same because carbing's bars are TIG welded aluminum, that bar is TIG welded stainless steel.

Kerby
05-28-2008, 03:45 AM
It doesn't fit (well, without a little modification). My friend has the brace, but the distance from the strut mount to the c-pillar mount is longer for the DC5, or so it seems. the holes don't line up in the EP3 too well either. BTW, the quality of the bar was not what I expected @ all. It's a little shitty and the welds are nothing like Carbing.

without pics to prove, I can't agree with statement. Seeing how it's your friend... go to his house and snap some pics and report back.:wink:

ep3moschini
05-28-2008, 04:07 AM
without pics to prove, I can't agree with statement. Seeing how it's your friend... go to his house and snap some pics and report back.:wink:

or go to your friends snag the bar and fit it in your ep3. . . :mrolleyes:

Godhand
05-28-2008, 04:28 AM
You heard wrong. You can get it from N1 concepts for about $459 shipped.

If I don't get wheels soon then I'll get this.

Way to be an ass :mwink: I had no idea that 600 was that far off from 470. If you knew, you should have given a link or said the price. I was just trying to put the price out there since you failed to do it.

As soon as I can hear a confirmed fit, I'll be picking this up.

This looks so badass! Can't wait for the fitting news.

MugsyTheGr8
05-28-2008, 05:09 AM
$400 for a part that wont make $400 difference. looks cool though.

FCobra94
05-28-2008, 07:53 AM
$400 for a part that wont make $400 difference. looks cool though.
x a brazillian

knowgood
05-28-2008, 10:00 AM
Way to be an ass :mwink: I had no idea that 600 was that far off from 470. If you knew, you should have given a link or said the price. I was just trying to put the price out there since you failed to do it.

As soon as I can hear a confirmed fit, I'll be picking this up.

This looks so badass! Can't wait for the fitting news.

Bleh im sorry was havin a bad day :mfrown:

The actual brace itself is 459 shipped and all the optional bars total up to around 600 somthing on top of the brace itself.

JDMCivicEP3 are you windchaser? I remember he had a thing for carbing. When I was looking at the hyperrev the carbing bar was just a drawing.

Windchaser
05-29-2008, 12:29 AM
of course its shiny, its stainless steel and the welds aren't the same because carbing's bars are TIG welded aluminum, that bar is TIG welded stainless steel.

Aluminum is lighter in weight and Carbing bars are solid one piece versus the adjustable SS Miracle bars. This is why Carbing cost so much. BTW, the Miracle bars do fit, but it is a very tight fitment. My neighbor just received his from Memory Fab for his 06 DC5. The entire kit goes for $700 shipped (CA residents), $500 shipped (CA residents) for just the cross brace. We test fitted into my hatch, but we couldn't bolt down the c-pillar bar area. I will try again with better tools and a camera soon when he and I have a day off from work and school.

Windchaser
05-29-2008, 12:31 AM
BTW, it doesn't do shit in our cars. The D3 V brace is all you need for the rear.

MokujinX5
05-29-2008, 07:39 AM
BTW, it doesn't do shit in our cars. The D3 V brace is all you need for the rear.

You tested it?

Kerby
05-30-2008, 04:18 AM
BTW, it doesn't do shit in our cars. The D3 V brace is all you need for the rear.

you need to explain alittle more on this. Do you have the v-brace installed now?

ep_hatcher_510
05-30-2008, 04:47 AM
The D3 brace are one solid piece while the miracle bar is not, not saying the miracle bar wont work but just by looking at it the v brace will be a much more better investment, although the miracle brace does look pretty dame good in the car :D

.colin
06-24-2008, 09:30 AM
any updates? i want to see a picture of someone actually fitting it up

20CiviC02Si
06-24-2008, 11:10 AM
I couldn't see spending the money on somthing like this. That is 1/4 of the price for a roll cage fabricated by King Motorsports! Which is just down the road!

Dr. Design
07-01-2008, 08:46 PM
Hello,
Here are the pictures of the D3 V-Brace installed. Let us know if there are any questions. When it comes to strength, integrity, and performance...there is NO competition!
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r134/ctd3rnd/IMG_1790.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r134/ctd3rnd/IMG_1791.jpg

Thank you,

Dr. Design
310-428-7716


you need to explain alittle more on this. Do you have the v-brace installed now?

v1c10us
07-01-2008, 10:04 PM
the thing about the vbrace is, do any of those places ever flex?
do they get closer together or further apart at any time?
I mean, im not saying they dont
I just dont know that they do.
the mounts near the sway bar dont move ever at all, impossible.
and unless you are doing wheelies, those mounts will never ever ever get any closer or further away from the mounts after the gas tank.
So whats it doing?

Windchaser
07-01-2008, 11:37 PM
the thing about the vbrace is, do any of those places ever flex?
do they get closer together or further apart at any time?
I mean, im not saying they dont
I just dont know that they do.
the mounts near the sway bar dont move ever at all, impossible.
and unless you are doing wheelies, those mounts will never ever ever get any closer or further away from the mounts after the gas tank.
So whats it doing?

Do you know how a roll cage works? It functions just like a roll cage . . . kind of like a pseudo roll cage.

v1c10us
07-02-2008, 12:47 AM
well sure, but roll cages triangulate, they connect the top to the bottom the corner to the other corner the roof to the floor, everything is connected, places that could essentially flex.
I just dont see the flex in those areas, im probably wrong though.
It seems like there is alot more flex to worry about in other places..
Seems silly, kinda like those "lower arm bars" and cusco b pillar bars and c pillar bars.
Will the two c pillars ever get closer together or further apart? if so, will that tiny ass bar really help that?

Dr. Design
07-02-2008, 08:58 AM
Hello,
That is a common question... Another member already mentioned the likeness to a rollcage. But to answer your question directly, the answer is a resounding YES. You might not think that those areas move under load, but I can assure you they do. In most passenger vehicles (EP3 included) the chassis is not designed to be very rigid. Materials are sometimes compromised in the interest of saving money in production or reducing overall vehicle weight. The rear cross member in this vehicle is a bolt in assembly that attaches to the underside of the chassis. The rear cross member of this vehicle is 10-12" tall and only attaches at the upper most point, leaving all the stress and pressure on the low hanging rear cross member. By adding this brace it would effectively solidify the lower section. The result is a VERY rigid rear section of the vehicle. Remember, flexing chassis acts like an undamped spring, thus making it nearly impossible to properly tune the suspension. This is a FACT, not just marketing hype. When a car manufactures looks to make an improvement in ride quality and handling without drastically changing the spring rates or shock dampening, they will look to strengthen the chassis by a certain percentage.

In contrast the rear tie bars you see commonly installed between the rear lower control arms are really not needed. But some people use it for show...

Please let us know if you have any questions. Hope I was able to help.
Thank you,

Dr. Design




the thing about the vbrace is, do any of those places ever flex?
do they get closer together or further apart at any time?
I mean, im not saying they dont
I just dont know that they do.
the mounts near the sway bar dont move ever at all, impossible.
and unless you are doing wheelies, those mounts will never ever ever get any closer or further away from the mounts after the gas tank.
So whats it doing?

Tnhatch03
07-02-2008, 10:17 AM
Dr. D does it again!!

J-Bird
07-02-2008, 05:39 PM
Hello,
Here are the pictures of the D3 V-Brace installed. Let us know if there are any questions. When it comes to strength, integrity, and performance...there is NO competition!

Are these still available? Last i checked you were no longer producing this product or the Double X-Brace either. If these products were being produced still i would definatly pick them up but aqt the moment i have a few other things that i NEED to get right now and won't have the funds for a couple months at least.

Windchaser
07-02-2008, 08:33 PM
Are these still available? Last i checked you were no longer producing this product or the Double X-Brace either. If these products were being produced still i would definatly pick them up but aqt the moment i have a few other things that i NEED to get right now and won't have the funds for a couple months at least.

Yes, they are available.

Karma
07-02-2008, 09:08 PM
as a previous owner of a v-brace (sold it cause i needed money), i vouch for the improved "feeling."

i dont say "effectiveness" because i honestly dont know how to measure/test the effectiveness of a chassis brace.

the only way i can describe the feeling is the the car didnt feel like it had a square shaped hatch anymore. it felt like the rear suspension was actually attached to the rest of the car. the left and right rear wheels felt like they were connected together.

in short, the rear felt like a solid platform.

compared to a roll cage or interior cross bars, the v-brace is easy to live with everyday. and it's fairly discreet.

WhiteComet
07-02-2008, 10:18 PM
where can I get one of these and how much?

Dr. Design
07-03-2008, 09:13 AM
Hello,
Give us a call and we can get one shipped out to you. We still have V-Braces in stock and ready to ship.

MSRP is $265, but since our economy is in the tanker right now, they are on sale for $225 plus shipping.

Thank you,

Dr. Design
D3
310-428-7716


where can I get one of these and how much?

chrispychicken
07-03-2008, 09:40 AM
Hello,
Give us a call and we can get one shipped out to you. We still have V-Braces in stock and ready to ship.

MSRP is $265, but since our economy is in the tanker right now, they are on sale for $225 plus shipping.

Thank you,

Dr. Design
D3
310-428-7716


How much is it shipped to 95035?

liquid cooled
07-03-2008, 10:35 AM
Is the X-brace still available or going to be reproduced bc i want both the X brace and teh V brace?

Dr. Design
07-03-2008, 11:46 AM
Hello,
Shipping to that location is $40. Big box, but the product is pretty light.
Thank you,

Dr. Design
D3

How much is it shipped to 95035?

Dr. Design
07-03-2008, 11:48 AM
Hello,
Well to be honest with you, there are no plans to build additional Double X-Braces. Now if the market dictated that they want us to build them again we would. But we would need to have no less than 12 PAID customers to move forward with it.

V-Brace has already been produced and in stock ready to ship. Please let us know if you have any questions.

Thank you,

Dr. Design
D3


Is the X-brace still available or going to be reproduced bc i want both the X brace and teh V brace?

Zeth
07-03-2008, 01:42 PM
Hello,
Well to be honest with you, there are no plans to build additional Double X-Braces. Now if the market dictated that they want us to build them again we would. But we would need to have no less than 12 PAID customers to move forward with it.

V-Brace has already been produced and in stock ready to ship. Please let us know if you have any questions.

Thank you,

Dr. Design
D3

Im on vacation right now but when I get home in a couple of days I will probably be giving you a call with my order, and I would def. be a buyer for the double x incase anyone was thinking about getting a group buy going on.:mangel:

player757
07-03-2008, 06:32 PM
do you have a limited number of these braces, or are they still in production.

J-Bird
07-07-2008, 08:51 AM
Hello,
Well to be honest with you, there are no plans to build additional Double X-Braces. Now if the market dictated that they want us to build them again we would. But we would need to have no less than 12 PAID customers to move forward with it.

Why not start up a group buy thread? I believe there would be enough interent in these products to get the required amount of people needed.

AliG-EP3
07-07-2008, 09:23 AM
Hmmm, well someone already did something similar to this. He was originally going to make a custom one off with memoryfab's help, and I was actually in line to get the second copy. It was to be the exact same miracle x design, and he ended up getting the project completed, but unfortunately I ended up not being able to get mine. I'm forgetting the member's sn (considering all my posts and PM's were deleted), but this was done in 2004. He said he loved it, but didn't like the reduction in storage space, but eh, you can't have it all

Kerby
07-07-2008, 06:18 PM
we need to start up a 12 list of paid customers.... I need a new xxbrace. The shop I used to install my front swaybar and other parts went to town with a hammer and fricken banged and stretched the thing, when i explicitly told them NOT to put it back on.

Big D, can I call you later tomorrow or this week so we can come to some agreement. I really want another one.

chrispychicken
07-08-2008, 11:16 AM
Hello,
Shipping to that location is $40. Big box, but the product is pretty light.
Thank you,

Dr. Design
D3

Thank you. Hopefully by the end of this week.

dichotomous
07-08-2008, 11:56 AM
DR. d.... Why use tubes? wouldn't a few peices of triangular cut plate more solidly mount the rear lower suspension arm mount? basically create a bolt on gusset.... something that was not free to flex by sitting above the suspension? it wouldnt LOOK as pretty but it would likely work better and give a heck of a lot more clearance, and be 10x cheeper to make too, might even weigh less

Dr. Design
07-10-2008, 11:31 PM
Hello,
Thank you for your question. Why use tube and not plate? Well the answer can be found by looking at the chassis of a racecar. Tubes are good for transferring loads. Having plates with gussets would cause high stress points in given areas. The gussets would help but at what expense. Plates would work on certain applications, but on this application tube is truely the BEST way to go. If we were to make the rear V-Brace out of a plate design, it would most likely cost 3x's the current amount to make. Not to mention all the welding that would be involved. On top of that it really wouldnt perform any better than the tubular design we have already come up with. There is over 60 years worth of chassis design and racecar fabrication at our fingertips. We like to use the knowledge to our advantage and not try to reinvent the wheel here.

Dont get me wrong, I dig thinking outside the box. But there is a time and a place for flat plate, aluminum honeycomb materials, composite carbon matrix, etc.. but in this application there is nothing better than tube.

Thank you,

Dr. Design
D3


DR. d.... Why use tubes? wouldn't a few peices of triangular cut plate more solidly mount the rear lower suspension arm mount? basically create a bolt on gusset.... something that was not free to flex by sitting above the suspension? it wouldnt LOOK as pretty but it would likely work better and give a heck of a lot more clearance, and be 10x cheeper to make too, might even weigh less

turbomouse
07-13-2008, 11:33 PM
another xx here. Money is ready. Ill also be purchasing the v for the rear. Would you count this as two orders?

Zeth
07-14-2008, 12:05 AM
another xx here. Money is ready. Ill also be purchasing the v for the rear. Would you count this as two orders?

so i saw the attempt at the group buy get closed. any way for us to get it back togeather?

dichotomous
07-14-2008, 08:05 AM
Hello,
Dont get me wrong, I dig thinking outside the box. But there is a time and a place for flat plate, aluminum honeycomb materials, composite carbon matrix, etc.. but in this application there is nothing better than tube.

Thank you,

Dr. Design
D3

I was thinking about stabalizing off the rear, going over the fuel tank the tubes are better, I'm with you on that. plus I could take my EP off-roading and not worry about the rear parts!