HHO and the alternative fuel

[03civsi]

So one of the guys at work has been going crazy over this the past couple days. He's been reading on an S2000 forum about a guy that has started using a hydrogen generator/separator and using it in a "methane injection" kind of method.

Apparently they use tap water and an electrolysis similar to purifying salt water. (pass electricity through the water, molecules start "jumping" and the hydrogen separates, like the salt) The guy is talking like 40mpg in the S2 when he was getting like 25.

Don't sweat the lean out ideas either, they have an o2 sim that apparently cures that because the computer would pick up the hydrogen as oxygen and over richen the mixture, hence the sim repair.

Was wondering if anyone had tried/heard of anybody doing anything similar?

[EPSU3]

there was a thread about this a few weeks ago, but know one knew how it worked. they did a piece on it in pittsburgh news, but they didn't go into detail. awesome

[27rocks]

WOW i want that in my car!!! Is he still making the same amount of power?

[03civsi]

VERY LITTLE WATER is needed...
1 quart/1 Litre of water (see photo) may last for MONTHS of driving (900 miles in my experience). How come? That's because this small device forces each Gallon of water to expand into gigantic proportions: 1833 Gallons of combustible gas!!!

Here's the best-kept secret the energy lords have been keeping from you about Hydrogen-On-Demand:
WHY COMPRESS HYDROGEN IN DANGEROUS HIGH-PRESSURE TANKS WHEN IT IS ALREADY "COMPRESSED" IN PLAIN WATER - AND CAN BE EASILY AND SAFELY RELEASED

This is a sample of the ad that he's been referencing to me too, it's from water4gas.com

[03civsi]

And I just read more the website, they only sell ACCESS to the BOOKS that tell you what to buy in order to make this functional

[pepSI]

Of course with all the high prices of gas lately there has been alot of talk about alternatives. About 15 years ago I attended a demo where they were using Diet Pepsi to fuel there vehicle. I've seen and heard of using water. I think my only real concern would be the horsepower issue. If you get great mileage but have minimal HP or vise versa. David

[SiN05]

i heard something like that on Sirius not as an advertisement but on the Bubba the Love Sponge Show. Some dude that sell kits i think or something is based in Tampa Bay FL or somewhere around there. Id be more worried about reliability.

[03civsi]

And you know for the life of me I can't find the post that he showed me...

[03civsi]

From what I understand and remember, which is limited, he said that the horsepower isn't compromised. In fact it seems to be helped in all reality.


Of course with all the high prices of gas lately there has been alot of talk about alternatives. About 15 years ago I attended a demo where they were using Diet Pepsi to fuel there vehicle. I've seen and heard of using water. I think my only real concern would be the horsepower issue. If you get great mileage but have minimal HP or vise versa. David

[03civsi]

I'm still suspicious of the whole works since the other website he showed me had some incredibly modern-hippy type music on the background and it was playing in loop.

[tdman77]

I read about this last year on a blog. The only draw back is how much power it takes for the electrolysis process. If they could only find a way to release the hydrogen without using too much energy then it might be cost effective. The best bang for the buck is making a home still and distilling your own ethanol. It only cost about $1-$1.5 per gallon to make.

[03civsi]

From what I read they were running off of battery power and a hi voltage isn't needed with the proper catalyst added to the water

[dann_04]

I've seen one of these "kits", the amount of hydrogen they produce is squat and does nothing. I don't know if you remember in hi school when you did an electrolysis experiment to get hydrogen, but the hydrogen just kind of starts to turn into little bubles on the walls and then float to the top like a carbonated beverage. Yes water has alot of combustable gas in it, but it takes an immense amount of energy to relaease it in a timely manner and you just can't have that on a car without cold fusion or some other miricle. They tried this on that mythbusters show too and got like 1cc of hydrogen in an hour. It's just people trying to make money off of these kits by praying on people during a fuel/energy crisis. And their best advertisements are frantic posts and stories from "guys whose friend is doing this thing and gets XX mpg practically for free!!!" You see them popping up on all the auto posts. No offense to whoeever started this one, i don't think ephatch memebers would be trying to screw over anyone, probably just curious about what they heard.

[thaseint]

They did a MythBusters on this...turns out it doesn't work (surprise, surprise).

The amount of hydrogen generated by the machine is insignificant, just a few little bubbles. The only real alternative at the moment is biodiesel and for this of course you need a diesel engine.

[03civsi]

Heard about a report that the mythbusters show didn't do it true to the theory but yeah, I'm skeptical of this whole deal too

[tdman77]

It is possible but the cost is just crazy! A hydrogen generator that can produce enough hydrogen is well into the six figures. Here is a link for a generator that could produce enough for someone who uses their car to commute/daily driver. http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/hydrogengeneration.html

For over $325K you can afford to buy 91octane gas till supplies run out.

As for myself I have switched to running my EP3 on E85. And as soon as I get my permit for my ethanol still, I will be making about 8-10 gallons a week at around $1-$1.75 a gallon.
:thumb:

[v1c10us]

the mythbusters was a hydrogen generator run off your battery.
This is different, look up joe cell in google
people have been doing this for years to much greater effect in ways that I cannot fully explain, my dad has one in his volkswagen bus and says his gas gauge stays on full for 300 miles.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Zihvon92knE

most typical hydrogen generators are a mess because the amount of energy required to synthesize hydrogen out of water is greater than the energy gained from it.
the joe cell utilizes very specific metals that remove the oxygen from the mix, any synthesis of oxygen on negative metals is converted instantly to rust, they gotta be cleaned out weekly but they're pretty sick.



the kit mythbusters buoght was a load of shit
they had one large post, anyone who has fucked with this synthesis shit knows you need several hundred.
I did a hydrogen synthesis kit in highschool and produced enough hydrogen to completely displace one gallon of water in 12 minutes.
mine was based off of a design much like this;
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tJBQUM52dhw

if you notice in this they are synthesizing hydrogen and oxygen seperately, if i were to do this i would combine the oxygen and hydrogen in the same case though as the 2:1 ratio of hydrogen to oxygen is perfect for combustion, you put this in your cylinder combined with some gasoline and BOOM!

[talonXracer]

They just had a special segment on NBC and this was seriously debunked as pure hype,,,,SORRY.

Just like taking a Placebo sugar pill......................

[civictype_r04]

I would like to know what it would do on an EP.

[03civsi]

The pics I saw of the S2 resembled something like what is in the bottom pic, all mounted under the hood though except some minor parts. I'd kind of be willing to give it a shot if I had a spare motor laying around.


the mythbusters was a hydrogen generator run off your battery.
This is different, look up joe cell in google
people have been doing this for years to much greater effect in ways that I cannot fully explain, my dad has one in his volkswagen bus and says his gas gauge stays on full for 300 miles.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Zihvon92knE

most typical hydrogen generators are a mess because the amount of energy required to synthesize hydrogen out of water is greater than the energy gained from it.
the joe cell utilizes very specific metals that remove the oxygen from the mix, any synthesis of oxygen on negative metals is converted instantly to rust, they gotta be cleaned out weekly but they're pretty sick.



the kit mythbusters buoght was a load of shit
they had one large post, anyone who has fucked with this synthesis shit knows you need several hundred.
I did a hydrogen synthesis kit in highschool and produced enough hydrogen to completely displace one gallon of water in 12 minutes.
mine was based off of a design much like this;
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tJBQUM52dhw

if you notice in this they are synthesizing hydrogen and oxygen seperately, if i were to do this i would combine the oxygen and hydrogen in the same case though as the 2:1 ratio of hydrogen to oxygen is perfect for combustion, you put this in your cylinder combined with some gasoline and BOOM!

[v1c10us]

i mean in theory it will work.. all you need is a neon transformer, some distilled water, some NaCL, and either a bunch of metal plates or a bunch of graphite or carbon rods.
the graphite and carbon rods work better because they are pitted, inducing nucleation.

[mikhsoj]

ive been really looking into doing this for my car too.. recently, gas prices getting stupid. but then i thought about it, if its so easy and cheap, why dont automakers do it themselves?

honda, toyota, gm, and all the major manuf, are all about the hydrogen future u know? so why don't they build these "50$ kits" of hydrogen generators and toss them into cars for a premium and get "293u2392232323 EPA ESTIMATED MPG" from it?

just wondering.

but anywho.. i heard stainless steel plates about 1/8 of an inch away from each other + - + - config works wonders (according to youtube)

[BobSassafrass]

The reason is if it works billion of dollars of revenue would be lost and the oil companies couldn't gouge us anymore.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Jcy3JbGjQwo

Supposedly the secret is using a phase modulation. I don't know how modifying the frequency can change the reaction rate but thats what I hear. This guy had contracts with department of defense and people giving him offers for million of dollars to keep quiet. Then he mysteriously ended up with food poisoning and died. So either he was a quack who just stirred shit up or he knew too much. Either way I wouldn't chance it by looking too deep, you'll prolly waste a lot of time and money.

[03civsi]

The guy at work went out and picked up the odds and ends to do his project, if it works or not I'll try to keep all of you updated and well pictured!!

[03silverEP]

They just had a special segment on NBC and this was seriously debunked as pure hype,,,,SORRY.

Just like taking a Placebo sugar pill......................

NBC huh...which is OWNED by GeneralElectric...The world's richest and largest company. Also the company that makes electric generators that power plants buy. Anybody think 'free power' would hurt G.E.'s stock price???? Just think about what they have to lose ($$$$$)

[4angrybadgers]

NBC huh...which is OWNED by GeneralElectric...The world's richest and largest company. Also the company that makes electric generators that power plants buy. Anybody think 'free power' would hurt G.E.'s stock price???? Just think about what they have to lose ($$$$$)

Paranoid much?

I hope you realize that electricity production and gas-powered cars aren't dependent markets. It's not like this tech (for a car!) is gonna reduce the need for electrical power plants... :mrolleyes:

[03civsi]

Don't knock him to hard, I love conspiracy theorists because I'm kind of one too. Like I said though, when I get more info I'll do my darndest to share. Plus, once he figures it out...he's crazy enough to build a bigger one and try to switch his house off of the grid.


Paranoid much?

I hope you realize that electricity production and gas-powered cars aren't dependent markets. It's not like this tech (for a car!) is gonna reduce the need for electrical power plants... :mrolleyes:

[4angrybadgers]

Don't knock him to hard, I love conspiracy theorists because I'm kind of one too. Like I said though, when I get more info I'll do my darndest to share. Plus, once he figures it out...he's crazy enough to build a bigger one and try to switch his house off of the grid.

It's comparing apples and oranges. The "HHO fuel" crap is for a GASOLINE ENGINE. GE deals with ELECTRICAL POWER GENERATION. Tell me how the hell GE has a stake in this?

And that leads to another question: how does this guy plan to run a house power grid off of a technology that is only designed to (supposedly) augment a car engine? It isn't free power, you know. The laws of thermodynamics still hold true in this universe...

[BobSassafrass]

You could hook it up to a generator and modifiy it to run only hydrogen.

[03civsi]

Not entirely sure, I'm pretty much observing and asking questions, just as you are. Only my seats are hopefully front row. I understand your concern though, if anything it should be fun either way it goes. I told him to make sure as to how much vacation time he really has too. :mwink:


It's comparing apples and oranges. The "HHO fuel" crap is for a GASOLINE ENGINE. GE deals with ELECTRICAL POWER GENERATION. Tell me how the hell GE has a stake in this?

And that leads to another question: how does this guy plan to run a house power grid off of a technology that is only designed to (supposedly) augment a car engine? It isn't free power, you know. The laws of thermodynamics still hold true in this universe...