about oil pump.....

[essraverone]

hi everyone....i just wonder a2 oil pump is better then a a3? cuz some pep said is better some plp say is not.I am going to do a turbo on my car so which pump is better,and the a2 pump is both-on right up to a3 motor? no need to mods or i need to do some thin to make it fit???

p.s...........i am a noob so pls help me : )

[Fico]

talonhad a sticky about it on the site before it blew up, i dont know if he reposted it but i belive the concensus is A2 is about the same as the A3 A1 A4, Z series pumps are better

[squeak04si]

the a2 pump is lighter so it pumps more oil with less effort. the fact that it is lighter wil yield a small gain cuz its less rotating mass on the motor.

[dobbs02si]

the a2 pump is lighter so it pumps more oil with less effort. the fact that it is lighter wil yield a small gain cuz its less rotating mass on the motor.

BUT you lose oil pressure because the a2 pump spins at 1.619:1 of the crank speed, where the Balance shaft pumps spin at 2:1. And I believe the relief springs are the same between k's(not 100%)..maybe Doug will chime in and straighten this out.

[squeak04si]

BUT you lose oil pressure because the a2 pump spins at 1.619:1 of the crank speed, where the Balance shaft pumps spin at 2:1. And I believe the relief springs are the same between k's(not 100%)..maybe Doug will chime in and straighten this out.

i have no clue

[Lucid Moments]

BUT you lose oil pressure because the a2 pump spins at 1.619:1 of the crank speed, where the Balance shaft pumps spin at 2:1. And I believe the relief springs are the same between k's(not 100%)..maybe Doug will chime in and straighten this out.

Thats true enough, but for the same reason with the K20A2 pump you have fewer issues with cavitation at high RPM, so if you are running a higher revving motor it can be better.

[EggLaNd'S BeSt]

This months Honda Tuning is a must-read.There is a excellent article on K-series oil pumps in it.

[essraverone]

if i gonna do turbo on my car...should i stick with the a3 pump? or change to a2 pump........and if i put an a2 pump on a3 motor do i have to modified any thin to make it fit on the block? or is both right up.






p.s. thanks for all reply guys tat help me alot!!! : )

[Lucid Moments]

If you are going with a turbocharged A3 I would just stick with the A3 pump. If you do decide to change then I believe it is a pretty straight up swap. Although I do believe you need to swap to an A2 aluminum oil pan also.

[squeak04si]

i believe you have to do some grinding on the a2 pump to make it fit.

[Lucid Moments]

I thought that was only on the K24? Not sure though.

[squeak04si]

oh idk then

[dobbs02si]

I thought that was only on the K24? Not sure though.

I believe thats right.

And I never thought about the high R cavitation..but good point. Mines never going above 7200 so im good lol.

[essraverone]

so.... an a2 pump is straight up swap on a3 block? if i change it is it help alot if i doin a turbo on my car? or just stick with a3 pump



thanks for all reply guys.........

[Jpax]

you can bolt the A2 pump to the A3 block, you need to plug the orface hole with a bolt that can be bought though honda, acura.

ill look for a pic of they orface hole plug

[Jpax]

http://tinypic.com/js0krt.jpg

#6 needs to be pulled out and pluged with a bolt

[talonXracer]

It is a waste of time and money IMHO to swap the A2 pump in. You wont be spinning a stock A3 longblock high enough to get above the a3's oil pumps cavitation point. And you wont see 1 bit of difference on the dyno. If you are building a dedicated high reving track car the A2 pump will work fine for you. You will need the A2 pump, pan, chain and tensioner. You will need to drop the subframe. After removing the A3's oil pump there is an oil jet that must be removed from the block and a bolt put in it's place(near the furthest mounting bolts from the chain end).


With feeding another item pressurized oil, the oil pressure will be very low at the cams while sitting at idle with the A2 pump, and with the A3 and a turbo, there is no need to spin to the stars, stay with the A3 pump., now if you want to add something then add the A2's oil cooler.

[Jpax]

It is a waste of time and money



Agreed

[essraverone]

so stick with the a3 pump right.... but just change the oil cooler to an a2? both right up? no need to do any thin? and do they have any aftermaket oil cooler for the a3 motor?





thanks for all reply guys.....

[talonXracer]

Oh,,and I forgot to add that you will need to remove the cam shaft timing chain to get at the oil pump chain to replace it.

To add the A2 oil cooler you will need to do some mods, nothing is as easy as just bolting it up, 15 minute job.

You will need to add the A2 water pump coolant passage and coolant pump, with A2 oil cooler and K20A coolant supply fitting
,,,,or,,,,

drill and tap the A3 coolant passage for a return fitting, and use the A2oil cooler and K20A coolant supply fitting.



Any of the oil coolers that route the oil AWAY from the engine, thru a oil cooler and then back, will suffer oil pressure drops at the main bearings and cam caps. The Honda design oil pump does not have the capacity to safely use a external oil cooler/remote oil filter on a DD. It will work fine in the garage, but on the street, in hot weather while stuck in traffic, there is no buffer/safety zone and at idle, the bearings will be starved of oil, especially the A2 oil pump.

[essraverone]

[QUOTE=talonXracer;601229]Oh,,and I forgot to add that you will need to remove the cam shaft timing chain to get at the oil pump chain to replace it.

To add the A2 oil cooler you will need to do some mods, nothing is as easy as just bolting it up, 15 minute job.

You will need to add the A2 water pump coolant passage and coolant pump, with A2 oil cooler and K20A coolant supply fitting
,,,,or,,,,

drill and tap the A3 coolant passage for a return fitting, and use the A2oil cooler and K20A coolant supply fitting.



Any of the oil coolers that route the oil AWAY from the engine, thru a oil cooler and then back, will suffer oil pressure drops at the main bearings and cam caps. The Honda design oil pump does not have the capacity to safely use a external oil cooler/remote oil filter on a DD. It will work fine in the garage, but on the street, in hot weather while stuck in traffic, there is no buffer/safety zone and at idle, the bearings will be starved of oil, especially the A2 oil pump.

so better stick with the a3 pump right and oil cooler.....i just only gonna am to 250 hp on a turbo or max puting maybe 300 hp is it ok to use an a3 pump and a a3 oil cooler?

thanks for all reply guys....

[essraverone]

so better stick with the a3 pump right and oil cooler.....i just only gonna am to 250 hp on a turbo or max puting maybe 300 hp is it ok to use an a3 pump and a a3 oil cooler?

thanks for all reply guys....

[Jpax]

so better stick with the a3 pump right and oil cooler.....i just only gonna am to 250 hp on a turbo or max puting maybe 300 hp is it ok to use an a3 pump and a a3 oil cooler?

thanks for all reply guys....

yes 300+ hp daily driven no problems at all on Siborgs car

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v406/jpax/IMG_6144.jpg

[dobbs02si]

yes 300+ hp daily driven no problems at all on Siborgs car

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v406/jpax/IMG_6144.jpg

Same here..306whp and 71k later she stills runs perfect.

Edit: Look at my avi and you'll see how it got the miles.. No grandma drivers in my family either.

[Tnhatch03]

how would the K20A2 oil pump handle on a HIGH HP motor?

[Lucid Moments]

Its not so much how high the HP is, its where it makes the power and how you drive the car. The A3 style pump builds higher oil pressure at lower RPMs but because of the design that allows it to do that it has the serious possibility of running into oil cavitation issues at high RPMs. The A2 style pump can handle much higher RPMs, but at the cost of possibly not supplying sufficient oil pressure at low RPMs.

So if you are going to be putting it into a car that spends most of its time on the track or even cruising the back-roads or moving out on the highway then an A2 pump is a good option. Just remember that if you get stuck in traffic on I95 on the way to the Md meet you may have oiling issues that could severely effect the lifespan of your motor.

On the flip side if your car spends a lot of its life as basic transportation, stoplight to stoplight and heavy traffic then the A3 style pump may be a better option for you. Just remember that it may be one of the things that limits how high you can spin the motor.

[Tnhatch03]

right.

the A2 block came with the A2 oil pump and everything. but i did not know if i needed to upgrade to anything else since it is out already.

[Lucid Moments]

Na, you should be good. You're EP isn't a DD for you anymore anyway is it?

[Tnhatch03]

Na, you should be good. You're EP isn't a DD for you anymore anyway is it?

yeah... for right now.

going to school and as soon as that is over with, i am going to work on the 240 until it is running. then park the civic.

[na14yu]

I have an A2 pump on my A3 motor.

My EP does double duty for street and track, so we installed a Toda baffled oil pan just to be safe.

The Toda pan required the removal of balance shaft along with the A2 pump. So now I'm running an A2 pump with no balance shaft and the car definitely shakes a bit through the steering wheel :)

[Tnhatch03]

are you all motor?

[na14yu]

are you all motor?

My A3 is stock otherwise, yes.

[dobbs02si]

I have an A2 pump on my A3 motor.

My EP does double duty for street and track, so we installed a Toda baffled oil pan just to be safe.

The Toda pan required the removal of balance shaft along with the A2 pump. So now I'm running an A2 pump with no balance shaft and the car definitely shakes a bit through the steering wheel :)

Thats what Ive been waiting to hear from someone thats done the swap.:mbiggrin:

[na14yu]

Thats what Ive been waiting to hear from someone thats done the swap.:mbiggrin:

It's definitely noticeable. No more smooth idles for me. Also when under acceleration the engine definitely feels less refined and more burly. All in all, it's livable. but you notice the difference the very first time you get into the car and start the car up.

I'm pretty sure removing the balance shaft freed up an extra hp or two :dance:

[dobbs02si]

Hmm..I guess ill do without cuz mines on the edge of annoying with esmm's and a/c lol. She dont even see the track that much so no real benefit to me, but like I said good to hear before and after!