Considering an EP3

[ep-a-mouse]

Hello gang,
I'm sure you guys get a ton of these. I am strongly considering getting an EP. I currently drive a 2005 WRX Wagon. I love it, but the problem is, it gets terrible MPG and requires premium fuel. It's has nolonger become worth what I am paying a month for it.

I had a Prelude prior to the WRX, and now I think it's time to return to the lovely warm H. I have a few questions for people who actually own them (you guys) because the dated online reviews yield very little useful data.

So for those who don't mind:

-What would you say you average in normal driving as far as MPG? No mods, no Kpro, just plain ol' stock motor.

-Are there any years that I should concentrate on looking for, or are they pretty much the same across the board?

-When looking at them, are there any common issues that I should ask about?

-Does the car require premium fuel? Or is it fine with regular?

Thanks for your time.

[NitroBoarder]

Hello gang,
I'm sure you guys get a ton of these. I am strongly considering getting an EP. I currently drive a 2005 WRX Wagon. I love it, but the problem is, it gets terrible MPG and requires premium fuel. It's has nolonger become worth what I am paying a month for it.

I had a Prelude prior to the WRX, and now I think it's time to return to the lovely warm H. I have a few questions for people who actually own them (you guys) because the dated online reviews yield very little useful data.

So for those who don't mind:

-What would you say you average in normal driving as far as MPG? No mods, no Kpro, just plain ol' stock motor.

-Are there any years that I should concentrate on looking for, or are they pretty much the same across the board?

-When looking at them, are there any common issues that I should ask about?

-Does the car require premium fuel? Or is it fine with regular?

Thanks for your time.

28ishmpg if it's city driving, 30+mpg if its highway or combined city/highway

04-05 models have all the small kinks and bugs pretty much worked out. small differences, 04-05 have 5-lug hubs, opposed to the 4-lug on the 02-03 EPs. taillights, headlights.

steering rack creak. I can't tell you what it sounds like, but I know someone can. I know some people have synchro issues.

87 octane is just fine

[teamOREO*JP]

the mpg can be anywhere between 25-30 depending how you drive the car of course.
-87 or 89 is fine, 91 if you plan on doing any forced induction though.
-if you read around the site, there are a few small matters that are the norm with the EP's (as said above with the steering creak)
-If you buy it, you will be buying a gas efficient, rare, good bang for your buck honda in my opinion. but the decision is yours. Hope this helped somewhat.

[Gaz]

I get 30-31mpg with combined city/highway (70% highway, stock motor).

In addition to the previously mentioned differences between the 02/03 04/05, the 04/05 also comes with side skirts standard and 16 inch vs. 15 inch wheels.

Another issue besides steering rack creak that have affected some cars (including mine) is a squeaky clutch slave cylinder. There is a TSB for it and mine was replaced under warranty.

I have only used 87 with my car (bought new 1/05).

[EricP3]

I'll trade you staright up for the wagon :)

[Akeeg4]

I'll trade you staright up for the wagon :)

i second that

[spike 03EP3]

I have a friend that's in the exact same boat as you, (he has a WRX, terrible mileage and premium gas).

Anyhow everyone that's posted so far seems to be right on with the fuel mileage, my completely stock 03 EP3 averages around 28 to 30 mpg. I get a solid 32 mpg on the highway as long as I can keep it at 75mph or under, which is pretty hard around here unless you like to get run over. What is everyone's hurry anyhow? :confused:

[that1blackhatch]

Sunny San diego native, Word!

i own a 04 nhbp (Black)...

in all honesty look for an 04-05, less problems, more features

04-05
Side skirts - standard
5 lug - standard
automatic Up driver side window - standard
Side airbags - Rare option, if u can find one with it, get it
16" Stockies - standard
super cool oem altezza tail lights - standard, unfortunetly
Fake Vtec - Standard on all models

[RON]

02-03 have the better lights... IMO but 04-05 have side skirts, 5-lug, 16"s!

[EricP3]

02-03 have the better lights... IMO but 04-05 have side skirts, 5-lug, 16"s!

The new lights are kind of growing on me. Just the headlights, the 04 tails are nasty imho. 04 headlights with 02 tails would be ideal. Also I kind of like 4 lug better because there are tons more wheels out there.

[ep-a-mouse]

It's looking like it will be EP then. Pref 04/05 in Black, Blue or White.
I was also looking at the base RSX, but they get worse mpg and have a few reported electrical errors, and so-so interior. Practically same power with less storage space. Not to mention the fact that they are ever where, and have a higher theft rate.

Somebody mentioned "Fake VTEC", Is that because it doesn't "hit" like the older B and H series?

Ericp3: I would trade you, but it's got some payments left on it, and trust me bro you don't want them. Plus turbo is no fun when it costs you $5 a gallon to fill. I drive it like an old lady and barely get 23mpg :mad:. Blip it a few times on the on ramps and you get like 20.

That1BlackHatch: Hey what's up Mr. San Diego to you too. :rockon:

Thank's guys. Hopefully I'll be back posting new pictures of my mini-minivan Ford Focus bent nail shifter EP3 :thumb:

[skooba]

it seems like MPG is your top priority in determining what car to buy. why are you looking at an EP3? the mileage isn't really that great to what you can get from other cars in the same price range.

[Breakep3]

25-30, City driving is easily accomplished but is completely dependent on the driver.

I have an 05 and have absolutely no problems to date (Just creeped past 40k)

I put regular 87 in and so did the previous owner and as I said earlier not a single problem.


Personally I believe, if you are looking for a fun not common commuter an EP3 is a great choice. However, please note these cars are drastically slow when stock. Running high 15's to low 16's quarter mile.

[na14yu]

Hi there, welcome to a potential EP owner.




-What would you say you average in normal driving as far as MPG? No mods, no Kpro, just plain ol' stock motor.



My motor is stock and I consistently get between 29 to 30 MPG at every fuel up and this is with 80% freeway and 20% city traffic in SoCal.

Worst I've gotten was in the 25 to 26 range and that was cruising at 85+ mph for the entire tank.



-Are there any years that I should concentrate on looking for, or are they pretty much the same across the board?


Personally I would get an 04 or 05 just because they are newer. They are also supposedly quieter in the cabin because Honda put carpets in the wheel wells to surpress road noise.



-When looking at them, are there any common issues that I should ask about?


Search is your best friend on this one. As for me, I had zero issues with my EP up to 36k miles. After that, I started to mod the car for track use. Since then, I've developed a steering wheel creak and some squeaks here and there, both of which I'm attributing to a stiff suspension.



-Does the car require premium fuel? Or is it fine with regular?


The car is fine with regular 87 octane fuel, which is what I use.

[ep-a-mouse]

it seems like MPG is your top priority in determining what car to buy. why are you looking at an EP3? the mileage isn't really that great to what you can get from other cars in the same price range.

Not necessarily. MPG is in the top of my priorities, but not the utmost. If that was the case I would get a Corolla.

I want something with a little pep, that is fun to drive, but won't kill me at the pump. The only other cars that seem to be in the same price/fun/mpg range as the EP3 is the RSX and the Celica GT-S, with the GT-S being the most fuel efficient. My fixation on the EP3 is the square back and fold down rear seats for ease of utility, reported good handling and of course it's uniqueness. I'll go test drive the 3 different choices this weekend.

[na14yu]

I could be wrong, but I think the GT-S requires premium fuel.

[Princess]

The ep3 is a LEV not ULEV, perhaps you need a ULEV vehicle if gas is a concern...like a Prius or Civic Hybrid

or you could always swap out the k20a3 and put a 1.8 b-series in there

just keep the WRX wagon

:closed_2:

[02JDMEP3]

Its really economical for its class. Given the nice cargo space, hatchback capability, a nice reliable engine from honda... you really cant ask for more unless you have more money to spend.

if you want just a car from point A to point B and gas is a worry, the new kia's and hyundai's seem to hit the market pretty well.

[stratwielder]

I could be wrong, but I think the GT-S requires premium fuel.

yeah 2zzge does require premium fuel.

[donkeygong64]

correct me if i'm wrong, but I think the manual in the EP3's say that the car can run on 85 octane gas

[Riv Civ]

I used to drive Subarus ('00 2.5RS, '02 WRX Sedan, '98 JDM STi Swapped Wagon), and I sold the last one for the same reason. Gas $ + bad mileage. I LOVE my EP3, but the one thing I really miss is AWD. You'll get used to it, but it sucks trying to come out of a stop and turning.


-What would you say you average in normal driving as far as MPG? No mods, no Kpro, just plain ol' stock motor.
---> I average 30 mpg mixed driving. Worst I have ever gotten is 27. My EP is 100% stock.

-Are there any years that I should concentrate on looking for, or are they pretty much the same across the board?
---> I think the '04-05 look nicer with their stock wheels fitting the wheel wells, but other than that it depends on what you can find.

-When looking at them, are there any common issues that I should ask about?
---> No clue on that - I just got my EP this year...

-Does the car require premium fuel? Or is it fine with regular?
---> The manual says it has to be at least 86 octane, so you're OK with regular gas!

Thanks for your time.
---> You are welcome. :mangel:

[ep-a-mouse]

yeah 2zzge does require premium fuel.

Yup looked it up, you are correct. Buh-bye GTS.

So it will all boil down to what ever I find a better deal on between the EP3 and the DC5 (non type-s). I'm pulling for the EP3, but they are hard to come by down here sometimes. I saw a few for sale, but they looked a bit riced out. One looked like the bumper was cut for an IC.

No on the Hybrid's and Kia's. I would become a very angry driver.

[Akeeg4]

i would look at a type s rather than an ep, they are maybe 3 grand more but really worth it imo.

[na14yu]

i would look at a type s rather than an ep, they are maybe 3 grand more but really worth it imo.

Right, but then the Type-S requires premium fuel, just like his subie.

[ep-a-mouse]

Right, but then the Type-S requires premium fuel, just like his subie.


Right, which is why I have landed on the EP3 and the base DC5 as my last two.

Some DC5-EP3 facts (as I have observed, correct any mistakes as you please):

Pretty much 26-30 mpg for both (my grandma has a base RSX but in auto reported pretty much the same as the EP-3)

DC weights 23 lbs less, and has 9 more ft lbs of tq, but lacks in versatile cargo room.

Black sporty interior is also hard to come by in the DC, as most lighter paint models also come with complimentary beige interior. Where as the EP3 has much more pleasing interior.

The DC carries a larger price and most likely a larger insurance premium to suite.


So my venture to find a more cost effective car, that still has a bit of sportiness to it, great motor, dependable, and not bad on the eyes has landed me on these 2 cars, with the EP3 placing first. :smile:

[na14yu]

This is pretty much similar to my decision making back in 05 when I was looking for a new daily driver at the time. It came down to a DC5-S or EP3 but I went with the EP3 because of the versatility of the hatch / cargo area and plus I thought the EP3 was more unique in its looks, and you don't see a ton of them on the road like the DC5 chassis.

Being able to run 87 octane was a bonus back then, but with gas now at $5 a gallon, if I had to make the same decision again I would not even be considering the Type-S. So like I said, somewhat similar to your decision.

[Fallout]

The EP3 actually has the same motor essentially as the base RSX. The only notable difference is the different length intake manifold runners (similar to the GSR Integra, where the runners switch to a shorter path and give a deeper sound and more pull as you approach the power band). The EP3 has a fixed aluminum intake manifold where the DC5 has the plastic one that can switch and as a result the RSX eeks out a few more pounds of torque.

The reason they said "fake" VTEC previously is because the K20A3 in the EPs only has intake cam VTEC and instead of helping performance at high RPM it helps economy at low RPM. It has been compared to the VTEC-E that was equipped on some older Civics in a SOHC form (although, since this only effects one cam on the EP3 it really does seem the same). My basic understanding is that: At really low RPM one of the intake valves in each chamber only opens slightly but as you accelerate (I think I read it was at 2800 RPM but I may be wrong.. correct me if I am) the "VTEC" engages and it operates like a normal 16 valve 4 stroke motor with both intake valves opening fully. I've read that these cars (in spite of their very different design/engine/powerband/etc..) perform about as well as an older (99-00 B16 Equipped) EM1 Civic Si stock for stock. I would say I have to agree BUT the EP3 does it with more style!

For the whole lowdown on the VTEC check out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VTEC

Read the i-VTEC section, it's very helpful in understanding the differences and you can learn about all the forms of VTEC and their applications on this page too!

[Jsoto517]

I have had my ep for about a year. the motor is completely stock and i love it, I do plan on doing minor bolt ons for motor. Ive done a bit of exterior mods and the looks of the car are unique both inside and outside. The car has potential, my brother has an 02 NHBP AEM cold air and cheap custom exhaust and beats my brother inlaw at any race in his VBP base model Rsx with AEM V2 and cheap exhaust as well. Its not the driver either for some odd reason my brothers ep has a really strong 3rd gear.

[stratwielder]

correct me if i'm wrong, but I think the manual in the EP3's say that the car can run on 85 octane gas

I believe that it is 86 and up only. :O

[MaxBoost]

i have a 2002 Si, all stock. no mods besides coils and 18s
average with a/c on 30-31mpg. 89gas going strong at 110k
mobil 1 synthetic oil since bought new in dec 2002

the only problems i had encountered after 95k
stock motor mounts went bad
a/c condessor siezed
doorlock busted
creaking sound from the front susupension

[na14yu]

I've read that these cars (in spite of their very different design/engine/powerband/etc..) perform about as well as an older (99-00 B16 Equipped) EM1 Civic Si stock for stock. I would say I have to agree BUT the EP3 does it with more style!


Good post.

One key thing to keep in mind is the B16 equipped 99-00 Civic Si requires premium fuel, whereas our EP3 Si does not.

Comparing both cars stock to stock, you are getting about the same performance but with the added benefit of extracting that performance from regular gas and with more versatility in terms of cargo :mcool:

I use to commute in a B16 '00 Si and I'd have to say that another advantage is the seats in the EP are better!

[Chad]

04 Si here, 52K miles

Went thru 2 Window Regulators on the driver's side
1 Clutch cylinder replacement due to it being squeaky
1 new set of tires (stock tires SUCK BAD)

It burns regular gas (well, unleaded for you old-timers)
I can get 34MPG out of it combined 75/25 IN THE SUMMER, WINDOWS UP AIR ON
I lose 10% of my mileage on winter gas or fuel with a high ethanol content (10% up)

Although I prefer the stock rear lights of the 02-03 I feel the 04-05 headlamps have superior optics and do a great job. I also THINK the 04-05 has a larger swaybar? If you wear cargo shorts then get button ones for the back pocket, not velcro, the velcro will eat your seat right up.

Chad

[Rep]

I also THINK the 04-05 has a larger swaybar?
02-03 is 15mm
04-05 is 17mm

[Buckeye34]

I use regular (87 octane)... get about 24-25 in the city 29-30 on the highway

Bone stock

[shivic]

if mileage is what this is about, get something that runs on 85 octane. vtec gets thirsty

[ep-a-mouse]

If you wear cargo shorts then get button ones for the back pocket, not velcro, the velcro will eat your seat right up.

Chad

Dude, nice. It's the little things that can cost you the most money sometimes. Thanks for all the input guys.

[Neteiru]

For me also, Bone Stock I get about 31-33 everytime I fill up. That is with A/C on and off.

[Gargola]

I bought a fixer upper 02 EP3, ( The owner never fixed anything that went wrong with it.)

List of items that it needs, or needed (I have done a few things over the past week)

-Alternator
-AC Resistor in the dash ( The owner fixed this before I picked it up)
-Door regulators ( Up /down button doesn't lock or unlock the doors, but it does unlock the trunk
-Can't down shift into 3rd gear, or up shift at high RPM's ( Took it to the dealer, and they said I need to replace the 3rd gear assembly, at a cost $1,400)

A slew of other issues related to mods that were executed badly, that I won't bother to list.

Roberto

[Riv Civ]

I believe that it is 86 and up only. :O

That is correct. I checked and it says 86 or better.

[ep-a-mouse]

Thanks again for all of your input. I will be going with the EP. It seems to be the best bang for the buck. Now I just need to find one in good condition, and find the best way to get rid of the WRX.

[05silversi]

I currently drive a 2005 WRX Wagon. I love it, but the problem is, it gets terrible MPG and requires premium fuel.

What would you say you average in normal driving as far as MPG? No mods, no Kpro, just plain ol' stock motor.

my venture to find a more cost effective car, that still has a bit of sportiness to it, great motor, dependable, and not bad on the eyes has landed me on these 2 cars, with the EP3 placing first.
Traded my 02 WRX wagon for the Ep for the same reason, twice a week at the premium pump was killing me.

For comparison, 100% city driving I was getting ~16mpg from the Rex -- same routes, same driving style with the Ep I'm getting ~22. Doesn't seem huge but ~40% improvement -- now it's only once a week at the regular pump.

The Ep definitely fits the bill on your final criteria, IMO it actually handles better than the Rex.

[Rep]

How are you getting 22mpg in an EP? Damn that's terrible.

[Kodeen]

Wow, I'm glad I read this thread. It reminded me why I bought this car in the first place (great mod potential wasn't it), and has reaffirmed my recent musings about keeping it fairly stock. Good luck on the trade.

[Gargola]

I wish the previous owner of my EP3 had the same mentality, before he decided to remove and throw away the rear carpeting, to save weight.


Roberto

[SlayerDX]

I've had mine since 2004 and I'm never letting it go! Decent power for daily driving and fairly fuel efficient. Everytime I think about getting a new car, I just take a quick drive and fall in love all over again. I have less than a year to go on payments too! :mbiggrin:

You won't go wrong with an EP3

[ep-a-mouse]

SilverSi. LOL, for an AWD car the WRX understeers like crazy. It can exit turns really well though. It's a blast in the dirt too. I'll miss it, but I gotta do what I gotta do.

Gargola: Gotta love the ricer mentality. :confused: I watched a kid slowly turn a nice clean CRX in to a total rice heap because he wanted to be different and faster. The removed all 10 lbs of the rear interior (good luck ever finding that stuff if your restoring a CRX) Chucked the A/C and removed all of the foam bumper support stuff... Yet he kept the stock d16 and loaded a huge speaker box in the back. Pretty much destroyed a perfectly good crx si... Oh and he painted the dash white... while the dash was in the car.:mcry:

[na14yu]

How are you getting 22mpg in an EP? Damn that's terrible.

He said 100% city driving. I can believe that the EP only gets 22 mpg in all city conditions.

I have an 04 Accord (4 cylinder). When I was doing 90% freeway for the first 50,000 miles of that car's life I would get between 33 and 35 mpg.

Now that same car does 100% city and all we're seeing is 20 mpg every fill. It's a huge difference when you never get on the freeway.

[Gargola]

SilverSi. LOL, for an AWD car the WRX understeers like crazy. It can exit turns really well though. It's a blast in the dirt too. I'll miss it, but I gotta do what I gotta do.

Gargola: Gotta love the ricer mentality. :confused: I watched a kid slowly turn a nice clean CRX in to a total rice heap because he wanted to be different and faster. The removed all 10 lbs of the rear interior (good luck ever finding that stuff if your restoring a CRX) Chucked the A/C and removed all of the foam bumper support stuff... Yet he kept the stock d16 and loaded a huge speaker box in the back. Pretty much destroyed a perfectly good crx si... Oh and he painted the dash white... while the dash was in the car.:mcry:

SilverSI
These guys must be related, because it fits the bill very closely to the things that were done to this car. I might start a thread with pics this weekend detailing all the messed up stuff he did to this car... an avenue for me to vent about his stupidity, and my own for buying the thing.

[Kleinengines]

Everyone always comes back to hondas

[Gargola]

Everyone always comes back to hondas

I agree, currently my garage consist of a 03 MDX, 06 TL, and my most recent addition... my 02 EP3

[ep-a-mouse]

Everyone always comes back to hondas

And will continue to do so, as long and they keep bringing out nice stuff (unlike the new TSX/Saturn). I hope they don't get on this DSG kick like Mitsu and VW. Some people still like 3 pedals.