itb's on a k20a3

[moso]

i was wondaring what u guys think if i run itb's and kpro with the stock k20a3. Anyone know how much whp i can put down with the itb's kpro and headers?

[Chazwick05]

in all honesty, you'll probably lose power. the a3 motor in stock trim can't take advantage of itbs and it will fall flat on its face. add to the fact that itbs are ridiculously difficult to tune properly, and they're a bit impractical for the street.

use the money you'd use on itbs and get some cams, uprated valvetrain and a prc (dc5-r) intake manifold, and you'll see much better gains, and a car that won't lose its drive ability on the street.

[moso]

what kind of cams? i mean the only ones that make cams for the a3 head is skunk 2 (if wrong correct me) and i heard bad stuff bout them. Some people told me to do a a2 head swap but others told me its not a very reliable head swap

[Chazwick05]

what kind of cams? i mean the only ones that make cams for the a3 head is skunk 2 (if wrong correct me) and i heard bad stuff bout them. Some people told me to do a a2 head swap but others told me its not a very reliable head swap

skunk2 and brian crower make cams for the a3 style heads. the bad stuff you've heard about the skunk2 cams pertain solely to a2 style heads, as the increased ramp angles and cam profiles are too intense, leading to subsequent tct breakage and perhaps even grenading the motor.

the skunk2 cams for the a3 style heads (k20a3, k24a1, etc.) work perfectly and fine. the stage II cams for the a3 head are about as aggressive as a stock a2 cam. skunk2 stage I cams do not need an uprated valve train assembly, nor a tune, however the stage II and stage III cams will.

[moso]

ok first thing first thnx for the help lol. And if i do get cams kpro rh and a intake manifold how much hp will i put down. Basically what im shooting for is squeezing as much power as possible on the stock motor while staying N/a. And if i get the bld fuel rail will i see any improvements or disimprovements at all? thnx and sorry for a lot questions

[Chazwick05]

no problem. the stock fuel rail and injectors and pump for that matter are all fine, so don't bother buying any upgraded parts, because you don't need them for the power figures you're currently looking at.

jaeguyoon is running stage III brian crower cams (with the upgraded valvetrain) and dyno'd at 192.89whp and 143.85wtq.

i'm not sure what his other mods are, but assuming he has a stock intake manifold, you might be able to pick up 2-3whp with an ITR manifold and a hondata IMG.

my best guess is that at most on a k20a3 before building the bottom end, you'll see 200whp and 147-ish wtq.

[moso]

ok so i guess its pretty much better to save up all my money and do a a2 swap

[Chazwick05]

ok so i guess its pretty much better to save up all my money and do a a2 swap

not necessarily. a buddy of mine, tommy aka 2004ep3hatch has a k24a1 swap with stage I cams, i/rh/e and made 188whp and 165wtq, which are slightly better numbers than a k20a3 i/rh/e with a jrsc-s. the torque is the nicest thing.

[koftaboy]

thank you soo much, but its not that easy like how your saying it you know!!! ita not easy to sell everthing that fast or its gona take a long time youknow plus i looked for like 2 month i found the K20A R no less then 5,500 without anything just the the whole swap if u can tell me where i can find it that cheap the way your saying then please please help me but i just wanted to make something out of the A3 you know kpro a2 or A1 head some bolt on you know i seriously in anyway you think i can do 250HP to the wheel or more but no swap or do i have to get a swap no chance am sooo sorry i talk to much but i just want help and its seems like every one hates A3's thankx again

[Chazwick05]

the only way to get 250whp out of an a3 motor is to essentially no longer make it a k20a3.

you'll need:

k20a3 block
k20a2 head
k20a2 crank balanced and micropolished
high compression pistons
forged connecting rods
valve springs and retainers
a set of cams
kpro
rbc intake manifold (with adapter)
hondata img
bored throttle body, with port matched intake manifold
new head studs and head gasket (oem is fine)
a2 or z3 oil pump/pan (z3 comes with balance shafts)
kpro
professional tune


things that will help:

mild port and polish
5 angle valve job with new seals
new valves
acl bearings
ITBs (if you're feeling a little crazy) :mbiggrin:


you will also need supporting bolt ons, like an SSR header, full exhaust, 3" and cai. additionally, you'll need the necessary equipment to get the power to the ground, like an lsd, replacement motor mounts, etc. while also having something to help slow u back down (higher performance brakes, tires). upgraded suspension is yet another thing to consider. it's a very expensive hobby, something that can take years to accomplish, as one little thing affects a bunch of other areas on the car.


im afraid the only way to squeeze 250+ whp out of an otherwise STOCK k20a3 motor is a jrsc race kit (and even with a lot of extra parts netting mid 240s) or a turbo kit, neither of which are an all motor application.

[phister]

Yeah 250 whp out of a stock a3 is really hard to accomplished and is very expensive. I was going to do an a3 build but I opted for a k24a1 head on an a3 block. My friend who does machine work says a 3 angle valve job is good enough, 5 angle is really overrated and basically you get the same results out of a 3 angle.

First thing I would get is your standard bolt ons and Kpro. Then if you arent happy with your power you can save up and get a swap or some form of boost. ITBs arent really great for DD, they are sensitive to the climate you'll have to be constantly tuning it from one day to the next.

[moso]

thnx everyone and as far as basic mods go i have a injen cai i have an apexi n1 cat back & new oem motor mounts (cuz i snapped mines) and a spoon engine torque damper i am still negotiating which rh to go with but after the rh im going to get kpro

[heyvortek]

yea makin 250hp frm a k20a3 is expensive...im makin 153 wid cai,megan header n test pipe..gonna put in bc cams stg3 wid uprated springs soon...so im hopin for like...well more...people say jus boost the a3..quick and fairly cheap..

[moso]

im not a boost fan and are u making 153 to the wheel or what?

[epshtielsl]

I think jaeguyoon had a lot more done to his car than just i/rh/e/cams. I think he also did a head swap and has kpro with a good tune. I doubt you'll hit his numbers with just cams and bolt-ons. You need the headswap as well.

And about the K20a....that motor is a complete and total waste of money, period. There is no reason that motor should be priced as it is aside from the reason that its mad tyte JDM y0. Save up for a swap, K24a1 / K20a2 / K24a2 (in ascending performance/price IMO). You'll see much better gains in the long run.

ITBs are not too realistic for street use. As stated before, they are expensive, very hard to tune ($$$), and won't do much for performance without all other supporting mods (should be done last).

What's wrong with boost? If you want to keep the stock K20a3 and make any kind of real power boost is the simplest way to do it. There were a few out there (ie. Chunky and jaeguyoon) that actually put down impressive numbers for a K20a3, but it took a lot of work, money, and know how. You'll get more power with boost as well.

[talonXracer]

I have a cammed A2 and dont make 250whp.

If you want that kind of NA power then you want a K24A2 with some cams and a topend header.

DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY ON A K20A !!!!!!

[moso]

ya k20a is a waste ur practically paying 2gz more just for cams its the same engine same compression

[donkeygong64]

sorry for such a noobish question. but what exactly does ITB stand for?

[ep3moschini]

:msmile:

[ep3moschini]

i was wondaring what u guys think if i run itb's and kpro with the stock k20a3. Anyone know how much whp i can put down with the itb's kpro and headers?

like 13hp an 1ftlb tq :mangel:

[jaeguyoon]

no problem. the stock fuel rail and injectors and pump for that matter are all fine, so don't bother buying any upgraded parts, because you don't need them for the power figures you're currently looking at.

jaeguyoon is running stage III brian crower cams (with the upgraded valvetrain) and dyno'd at 192.89whp and 143.85wtq.

i'm not sure what his other mods are, but assuming he has a stock intake manifold, you might be able to pick up 2-3whp with an ITR manifold and a hondata IMG.

my best guess is that at most on a k20a3 before building the bottom end, you'll see 200whp and 147-ish wtq.

thanks chazwick! I actually have RBC Mani with img.

And I also picked up a k24a4 block. So before i swap the block out, I might rev the hell out of the a3 to see what it is capable of. It might be awhile till I swap the block, I don't know if I should just drop it in as is or if I should go big and get forged internals.....Either way I love my a3, and it's going to get 1 more retune when I install the vtc gear mahined for 35 deg. I've just been real busy.

[EPSpeedKing]

sorry for such a noobish question. but what exactly does ITB stand for?

individual throttle body


But yea, its pretty pointless of having itbs on a k20a3. To make full potential of itbs, you would need a k20a2 or K24a2 with higher lift cams and higher compression.