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View Full Version : How fast will I kill the stock brake pads at a track day.



88crx
06-29-2008, 09:37 PM
Car has 60,000km's = 37,000miles and I'm still on the stock pads.... brake fluid was just flushed maybe 2-3000 km's ago.

Just wondering if I have any hope in lasting through a 4 hour track event.... or will my pads be gone?

Nothing compeditive and most people do 5-6 laps on then cool down for 20 minutes or so.

cow
06-29-2008, 09:38 PM
Familiar with the expression, "playing with fire?"

Bad bad idea.

Track days are not something to half ass, both for your own safety & that of the other drivers around you.

cow
06-29-2008, 09:42 PM
Car & Driver magazine had an informative article about brake fade in the most recent issue. Stop by a news stand & glance through the text.

I apologize if I'm coming off as harsh-- it's not my intent-- but for your sake & the sake of your gorgeous car, I really don't want you tracking on stock pads.

To further the safety point, I'd seriously consider new rotors prior to being on a track as well as a reflush of the brake fluid using high operating temperature fluid & changing the pads.

sLiCk
06-29-2008, 10:35 PM
Check to see how much pad you have left. At 60000km, if the pads haven't been changed before I would say it's pretty low. Stock pads are manageable at the track especially since it's your first time but you'll need at least 50% pad. To answer your original question. Yes the stock pads will fade and cook very fast especially when you pick up speed as you progess through the day so be aware of when your brakes start to lose bite. Fresh high temperature brake fluid is absolutely mandatory. Happy tracking :)

epcivicboy08
06-29-2008, 10:53 PM
Car has 60,000km's = 37,000miles and I'm still on the stock pads.... brake fluid was just flushed maybe 2-3000 km's ago.

Just wondering if I have any hope in lasting through a 4 hour track event.... or will my pads be gone?

Nothing compeditive and most people do 5-6 laps on then cool down for 20 minutes or so.

good question....something i've been thinking about myself as well.
my car has 52,000 miles and i'm thinking about doing some track time in the near future and since i'll be a total noob, i'm sure i'll be riding those brakes quite a lot :mtongue:

would all of you guys with experience on the track recommend the following for noobs?:

1. better performing brake pads
2. brake fluid flush...refill with high temp fluid
3. new rotors

???

MugsyTheGr8
06-29-2008, 11:31 PM
depends. are we talking open track day with passing? i went to my first one with gransport front pads and stock rears and i was fine. suspension was also stock with just a performance alignment and i was also on all season tires. alot of it will depend on the type of track.

v1c10us
06-30-2008, 12:31 AM
if its your first track day, I wouldn't worry about it.
You're probably going to be driving like a girl
I know I was pretty timid for the first few tries, although we dont have open track, its one at a time =\
In my opinion the key to driving safely and having fun in those sorts of situations is to drive in your cars parameters and not to make the car drive in yours, if you notice the brakes dont do what you're wanting, dont try and make them because thats when things can become dangerous, and then its not fun anymore.

talonXracer
06-30-2008, 04:42 AM
Your pads will be toast after one hot lap.

liquid cooled
06-30-2008, 04:46 AM
I didnt feel comfortable with the stock brake system after some spirited driving one night where the brake fade became very very apparent. As such im not hitting the track until my brakes are upgraded, its not fair to everybody on the track, their safety is in your hands as well.

Princess
06-30-2008, 05:01 AM
Interesting questions and interesting answers. Brakes are so important... if you can't stop you could hit the car in front of you. $$ lol Good luck.

20CiviC02Si
06-30-2008, 05:03 AM
I have to agree with cow on this one. It's a BAD idea to go to the track on stock brake pads and regular brake fluid. First of all you will experience brake fade within 2 laps and there is also the risk of your pads starting on fire.

First time at the track or not, it's a horrible idea to try running stock pads on a race track. At least get some Hawk HP+ and some new rotors for the front as well as some high temp brake fluid.

20CiviC02Si
06-30-2008, 05:07 AM
I am a racing fanatic, if i can get out to the track or auto-x i'm there. I was using some Wilwood RBF 570 with Hawk HP+ Pads all around and powerslot rotors. I was experiencing major brake fade after 5 hot laps.

We're not telling you to go drain your wallet, but at least step up the pads and brake fluid.

Since i am planning on running more track events, i have stepped up to a Wilwood big brake kit to keep the temperatures down and prevent fading. That's all they are good for. People think they are used to make the car stop faster. The only thing that makes your car stop faster is your tires and brake pads! Keep that in mind.

Also since it's your first event, be sure that when you come off the track and park in the paddock. Leave your e-brake off and just park the car in gear. This will prevent your rear pads from catching fire.

pynikal
06-30-2008, 05:35 AM
were can this hi-temp fluid that you guys speak of be purchased??

and also is it ok to run on a DD?

ShadySi
06-30-2008, 06:29 AM
1. better performing brake pads
2. brake fluid flush...refill with high temp fluid
3. new rotors

???

Profit!!

I'd be afraid to go to the track on stock pads ad rotors.. i know my rotors are done form a season of auto-x.. so I'd think a track day would warrant a new set of pads and rotos at least.

HondaFreak
06-30-2008, 07:37 AM
Stock OEM DOT 3 fluid will boil at the track= been there done that.
Stock OEM rotors and pads do not have enough heat resistance to hold up under track conditions.
DOT 4 fluid is your friend. Slotted rotors and high friction compound pads are your friend. Hawk Blue's are great for stopping and destroying rotors at the track. But that won't last long and you'll get tired of buying new rotors 2-3 times a year so you'll just end up here....http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n2/HondaFreak_01/install1.jpg

Good luck, Christian

na14yu
06-30-2008, 08:39 AM
88crx and epcivicboy08:

As others have said, you should swap to a performance brake fluid like ATE Super Blue or Motul RBF600, and change out the worn stock pads for new performance pad.

You may want to consider doing new rotors as well while you're at it, but new rotors may not be necessary (I'm still running stock rotors).

Stock pads and fluid are not going to hold up for a day at the track, and it's even worse considering both are worn and haven't been changed for the life of the car.

Its true that as a first timer you're not going to be going blazing fast out there, but most track n00bs have a tendency to ride the brakes so that makes things even worse.

v1c10us
06-30-2008, 01:54 PM
I guess I'll back out what I said because i've never driven the ep3 with stock pads.
when i got it it had hawk HPS or hp+ cant remember which.
I quickly bled the brake system and refilled with endless brake fluid and now i'm also running endless SS-S sport pads
The fluid is definitely something to look into, as what everyone has said about it is very true, you will quickly heat it past its wet boiling point, and if its that old we can say that it is very very wet.

Windchaser
06-30-2008, 02:37 PM
You don't need aftermarket rotors. All you really need is a set of good brake pads and ATE Super Blue brake fluid (The RBF cost more). You'll have to bleed the brakes after anyways.

20CiviC02Si
06-30-2008, 02:55 PM
You don't need aftermarket rotors. All you really need is a set of good brake pads and ATE Super Blue brake fluid (The RBF cost more). You'll have to bleed the brakes after anyways.Agreed, after a track day. You are to rebleed your brake fluid, because it will just saturated with moisture.

02_epdriver
06-30-2008, 04:23 PM
Any place that anyone would suggest to get these brands of brake fluid

na14yu
06-30-2008, 05:07 PM
Any place that anyone would suggest to get these brands of brake fluid

You can just google buy ATE Super Blue and it'll return all the usual suspects...

na14yu
06-30-2008, 05:10 PM
Agreed, after a track day. You are to rebleed your brake fluid, because it will just saturated with moisture.

I'm pretty bad at this.

Depending on when my next track event is and how many miles I'll accumulate....I actually like to change my brake fluid a day or two before a track event, and then afterwards I'll just drive on the used fluid until a day or two before the next event :mredface:

pynikal
06-30-2008, 05:56 PM
this is $13 a liter. how many liters do i need to totally flush the system?? im thinking like 1.5??

sLiCk
06-30-2008, 07:12 PM
1 litre

epcivicboy08
06-30-2008, 07:32 PM
88crx and epcivicboy08:

As others have said, you should swap to a performance brake fluid like ATE Super Blue or Motul RBF600, and change out the worn stock pads for new performance pad.

You may want to consider doing new rotors as well while you're at it, but new rotors may not be necessary (I'm still running stock rotors).

Stock pads and fluid are not going to hold up for a day at the track, and it's even worse considering both are worn and haven't been changed for the life of the car.

Its true that as a first timer you're not going to be going blazing fast out there, but most track n00bs have a tendency to ride the brakes so that makes things even worse.

great info!

I know someone mentioned that it would almost be a common courtesy to the rest of the drivers on the track to have semi-good brakes so that you know at least your car will stop if your going too fast and have to hit the brakes.

Elise98
06-30-2008, 09:05 PM
Don't do it. My stock brake pads were pretty low but I really wanted to run my car. Towards the end of the day I start hearing the breaks screeching but I kept telling myself "one more lap" every-time I approached the pitting area. I was having too much fun and couldn't bring my self to calling it a day. In the end I boiled my brake fluid and wore my brake pads down well into the little metal piece that sticks out to make it screech and tell you it's time for new brakes. When I finally pitted my brakes would make a screeching noise even when I wasn't stepping on them. Luckily my rotors didn't take too much damage. I had a 20 minute drive home in which I went really slow and downshifted and used the handbrake every-time to stop further damage.

It doesn't take to long to change the brake pads and you'll be mad at yourself for reducing your track time.

oldskoofame
06-30-2008, 11:26 PM
good thread :msmile:

if ur on a restricted budget..
decent rotors are pretty low in cost.
Posibrakes or "Centric Rotors" (i think that's what they are called) are a pretty good brand. It's supposed to replace ur stock brakes but it exceeds it.

usually, just the fluid and upgrade pads do the job. but it never hurts changing the rotor with it.

pynikal
07-01-2008, 05:33 AM
two things:

how often do i have to flush the system if i get the good blue fluid? and also i have a pressure bleeder, can i use that ??


and also i can get brembo OE replacement rotors. are those going to be any better than another OE replacement rotor or is it just a name that i am buying.

and also how do you guys feel about akeobono (sp) pads???

na14yu
07-01-2008, 08:51 AM
two things:

how often do i have to flush the system if i get the good blue fluid? and also i have a pressure bleeder, can i use that ??


and also i can get brembo OE replacement rotors. are those going to be any better than another OE replacement rotor or is it just a name that i am buying.

and also how do you guys feel about akeobono (sp) pads???

You should only need 1 liter to flush your brake fluid. Generally speaking, you should flush/replace your brake fluid after every track event. If you're only doing DD with some occasional spirited driving, its probably a good idea to change your brake fluid once a year.

No idea on the OE Brembo replacement rotors. Brembo obviously make quality brake components so you can't go wrong with their products. But if its just for a daily driver then you're better off buying new OEM rotors if they're less expensive than the Brembo OE replacement rotors.

Never used Akebono pads before so can't comment either way.

spike 03EP3
07-01-2008, 10:29 AM
How do you guys flush your brake fluid? Do you use a power bleeder, or just gravity? I've heard something about bleeding a ABS system, there's a proceedure you must follow or it will screw the ABS controller up, anything to this?

sLiCk
07-01-2008, 10:49 AM
Before you bleed your brakes, go out and pound on your brakes a bit to cycle fluid through the abs module. I believe the proper way to do it is to open up the valves inside the abs module via the computer before you do the bleeding which can only be done at the dealership.

HondaFreak
07-01-2008, 01:39 PM
How do you guys flush your brake fluid? Do you use a power bleeder, or just gravity? I've heard something about bleeding a ABS system, there's a proceedure you must follow or it will screw the ABS controller up, anything to this?

I use leg power and a water bottle with a hose stuck through the cap. There is no real procedure except they must be bled in a certain order. 1st=driver front, 2nd=passenger front, 3rd= passenger rear, 4th= drivers rear.
And for everyone's info, the ABS sensor is run off the axle NOT THE BRAKES! There is a modulator connected to the brake's hydraulic system, but the ABS sensor is on the axle.


Before you bleed your brakes, go out and pound on your brakes a bit to cycle fluid through the abs module. I believe the proper way to do it is to open up the valves inside the abs module via the computer before you do the bleeding which can only be done at the dealership.

Nope, I explained the procedure as per the OEM Helms manual. There is no opening anything up. Except a bleeder screw.

Christian

sLiCk
07-01-2008, 02:56 PM
oh hmm good to know!

Twisted-X
07-01-2008, 03:37 PM
I hope I'm not threadjacking, but which pads are better: Hawk or EBC? I've used EBC greenstuff in the past and they seemed pretty good, with almost no brake dust.

Also, someone told me that its bad to mix the stock dot 3 with dot 4, is this true? If so, how do you remove all the old fluid, just open the bleeder and run it out?

TIA

EDIT: Found this in a Google:

"DOT 3 and DOT 4 are poly-glycol-based fluids and can be mixed with each other."

So I'm good to go:mbiggrin:

JohnnyTavo
07-03-2008, 06:38 PM
EBC pads are pretty shitty

Brembo OEM style rotors really aren't worth it, I have crewed for many production style road race cars, and the Brembo rotors didn't last any longer than the Autozone cheapos. The rotors were ruined from the buildup produced by the pads way before any surface cracks appeared.

like some people have said you don't really need to spend a ton on Motul fluid, Superblue can last up to 3 years, Motul will not, but then again Motul has a much higher boiling point and you won't need to bleed it nearly as much as the Superblue

v1c10us
07-03-2008, 09:54 PM
certain dot 4 fluids are not poly-glycol based and they will say "not for use with vehicles equipped with ABS" dont get one that says that.
i would not get EBC pads, many people say they are worse than the hawk pads, and after realizing how shitty the hawk pads are, I would not reccomend them just based on that simple analysis.

spike 03EP3
07-03-2008, 11:16 PM
I've got a set of Speed Bleeders, a liter of ATE Blue, a set of EBC Yellows, new stock Honda rear pads, and a new front set of 225/45-17 Azenis; I think I'm good to go for a road course?

yes? no? "Discuss umickes you're selveves":tea:

sLiCk
07-04-2008, 12:24 AM
Have you gotten the azenis yet? If you're really into roadracing/track days etc, I would recommend getting something else. Azenis tend to overheat and get greasy/slippery very quickly. Don't ask me how I know. Great tire however if you're doing short runs ie autox or short track sessions.

JohnnyTavo
07-04-2008, 08:27 AM
i would never go on track with a set of EBC pads, and i wouldn't trust speed bleeders either, but

azenis will be fine, you don't want to be out there on rcomps the first time you are on track, the azenis will be much more forgiving