best suspension set ups

[moso]

im thinking about doing suspension next so far i have progress rear sway bar and skunk 2 lca also i have neuspeed springs (i didnt buy them the car came with it) im lookin for a fun set up for street driving and some what of abuse what do you guys think?

[v1c10us]

there are many different kinds
but for my budget i'd go with either the megan racing coilovers, or the progress coilovers.

[moso]

i was actually thinking progress but are they good? and how low can you go with them?

[Tnhatch03]

get your tranny fixed before you start abusing anything else.

[moso]

lmao this guy yes i know but im hopping my tranny is not a serious problem but i am starting to think it is thanks to you lol jp dude apreciate the support but ima have a pretty bad ass job for the summer so im planning on finishing the suspension

[Tnhatch03]

lmao this guy yes i know but im hopping my tranny is not a serious problem but i am starting to think it is thanks to you lol jp dude apreciate the support but ima have a pretty bad ass job for the summer so im planning on finishing the suspension

i am everywhere focker. lol

if i could do it again, i would look into the Xbrace/Vbrace from D-three Designs, and some coilovers.

[moso]

i cant find x braces or v braces for the damn ep anywhere

[v1c10us]

i was actually thinking progress but are they good? and how low can you go with them?

Well, the question is, why do you want to finish the suspension?
if its for handling, you should not be worrying about how low you can go.
its fairly known that for every bit you go over 1.5 inches the worse your handling gets.
the progress will be fine for you, they can go as low as you should ever consider going.

[moso]

ok :msmile: i dunno i like going low its fun hearing my apexi scrape over speed bumps lol no jk but common you have agree with me that eps look awesome low

[v1c10us]

no not really.
i think a 1.5-2.0 inch drop looks good, anything after that is getting stupid and the car starts looking like a joke.
I cant take a car seriously that is lower than two inches.
I ordered the progress lowering springs and they're a 1.8 inch drop in the front and 1.5 in the back, with my 16's thats just enough to allow one to one and a half fingers between the fender and the tire.
I think thats the perfect amount and my handling wont suffer too much.

[moso]

ya i saw pix of ur ride it looks pretty high but i dont wanna do springs again if i do suspension im probably going to get progress coilovers

[v1c10us]

those pics are on stock springs, the springs are still on backorder so i dont even have them on yet
get the progress coilovers, drop it 1.5 and see if you can get away with that, if not go a little lower, basically, dont go as low as you can from the beginning.
Go as high as you can and get it lower and lower untill you like the way it looks, and then dont go any lower or your making your car handle horrible.
You never want your LCA's to be angled up, its better if they are slightly pointed down.

[ep3civic2nr]

those pics are on stock springs, the springs are still on backorder so i dont even have them on yet
get the progress coilovers, drop it 1.5 and see if you can get away with that, if not go a little lower, basically, dont go as low as you can from the beginning.
Go as high as you can and get it lower and lower untill you like the way it looks, and then dont go any lower or your making your car handle horrible.
You never want your LCA's to be angled up, its better if they are slightly pointed down.

less talk more scrape..

my LCAs are pointed up and my cars dumped and I auto cross my car when ever theres an event.

[v1c10us]

and thats great that you do that, but the fact remains that if your car was less dumped it would handle better.
And if you are going to go that low and autocross your car I hope you have different tie rod ends, your steering racks gonna go kaput

[Zeth]

my progress comp. coilovers are supposed to be at my house tomorrow, which probably means monday or tuesday but im going for a 2" drop and planning on ordering the v-brace.... will take pics when coils are on.:mwink:

[bmyers4321]

Buddyclub N+ or RSD would be a good street setup that can take some abuse. but it is higher on the price list. and if you want performance asking how low it goes is not the best. our cars perform at the best with 1.5-2.0" drop.

[K-Shark]

i wouldnt go buddy club...

you can't send them back to japan to get them re-valved if they blow...

[davisj3537]

Sportlines/progress springs matched with some tokico d spec struts and a 24mm rear sway. End of discussionhttp://smiliesftw.com/x/jerkbowdown.gif (http://smiliesftw.com)

[Princess]

Right now I have the Spoon progressive springs and I plan on getting the fixed damper kit to go with them.

Spoon progressive springs

http://www.spoonsports.us/v/vspfiles/photos/51400-EP3-001-2.jpg

From http://www.aj-racing.com
Spoon progressive springs are designed to provide optimal ride height and camber, while working in conjuction with stock dampers. The progressive design provides a smooth, comfortable ride at city driving speeds and stiffer, more responsive handling at higher speeds. Progressive springs are recommended for enthusiasts wanting a sportier driving feel without the cost and harshness of dedicated track coilovers.

paired with the Spoon fixed damper kit

http://www.aj-racing.com/catalog/files/products/images/spoon/suspension-brakes/Fixed-Damper-Kit-DC5.jpg

From http://www.aj-racing.com
"Spoon fixed dampers are ideal for drivers desiring a sportier feel without the harshness of higher end coilovers. These dampers can be used with stock or aftermarket lowering springs. For the best result, the fixed damper kit should be used with Spoon Progressive Springs."

[Windchaser]

Good luck with those fixed dampers. One lap around Infineon will probably cause them to leak.

[drjd888]

i wouldnt go buddy club...

you can't send them back to japan to get them re-valved if they blow...

This might be a stupid question but I couldn't find the answer by searching. What can you do when your coilovers wear out? Can those be revalved too or do you just go buy a whole new set?

[Princess]

Good luck with those fixed dampers. One lap around Infineon will probably cause them to leak.

Come on, they can't be that bad, can they. I thought Spoon only made good products. Anyone else think the Spoon fixed dampers suck? I don't think anyone on this Website has ever actually owned a set.

[oldskoofame]

and thats great that you do that, but the fact remains that if your car was less dumped it would handle better.
And if you are going to go that low and autocross your car I hope you have different tie rod ends, your steering racks gonna go kaput

not all entirely true...
it's just a matter of compensation all sorts of things.

you're talking in matters of autocrossing where mechanics play the majority of the role. when you track & aerodynamics play the majority, it's different.

[oldskoofame]

This might be a stupid question but I couldn't find the answer by searching. What can you do when your coilovers wear out? Can those be revalved too or do you just go buy a whole new set?

depends on the company that you bought it from.
some provide rebuild services & some don't

It goes like this:
rebuild service charge per corner$ + parts$ + extra services (dynos etc, some which are automatically included in the service) = total$
OR
rebuild parts pick up$ (do it yourself) = total$
OR
manufacturer don't provide rebuild parts.

[liquid cooled]

Just get teins, they can be sent back to get revamped if need be are high quality and rid awesome, im on TEIN Flex

[v1c10us]

not all entirely true...
it's just a matter of compensation all sorts of things.

you're talking in matters of autocrossing where mechanics play the majority of the role. when you track & aerodynamics play the majority, it's different.
going in a straight line is a lack of handling in my opinion =]
and unless your trailering your car to and from the strip, you're gonna have to take a corner some day. you can go as low as you want, technically, but there are things that should be taken into account; our shitty front mcpherson struts and their stupid tie rod angles for 1, incredible strut compression is another, the fact that you'll never corner hard enough to get positive camber on the inner wheels, thats why i wish they made shorter LCA's for our cars.

[PAPITUYO326]

High Quality and Tein do not belong in the same sentence..

[liquid cooled]

^ thats weird bc me and at least 10 people I know run tein coilovers with ZERO problems.

[civiKSiborg]

going in a straight line is a lack of handling in my opinion =]
and unless your trailering your car to and from the strip, you're gonna have to take a corner some day. you can go as low as you want, technically, but there are things that should be taken into account; our shitty front mcpherson struts and their stupid tie rod angles for 1, incredible strut compression is another, the fact that you'll never corner hard enough to get positive camber on the inner wheels, thats why i wish they made shorter LCA's for our cars.

Wait why do we want Shorter LCAs and more positive camber. I've been reading about the CTR ep3s and their LCAs are even longer then ours. Ive had positive camber on my ep when i didnt have camber bolts in front, and the amount of understeer was intolerable. Just trying to clarify whats wrong and whats right.

[v1c10us]

if your car was slammed, you would have negative camber
aka tires going like this / \ positive camber would be like this \ /
what I said was maybe a little confusing though.
I guess I gotta explain better.
First on the camber.
When you're lowered alot the LCA's on your car stick up more than out.
If you take a hard right corner when your LCA's are sticking straight out, no angles, the left springs compress bringing those wheels up, and making youre lca's stick up, creating camber of this fasion //- and the other spring will decompress, causing the lca to point down, creating camber of this fashion -// so the cars camber on the wheels will look like this
//--//
this is basically a very small scale of how motorcycles take corners, but individually with each wheel and not so drastically.
this is good for your handling.
If you're lca's are sticking up though, the left wheel cant go any further up, so it cannot create any camber, and the other lca will only go back down to straight, instea of angled down, so it will not create significant camber either.
Thats why you dont want your lca's sticking up.
All i meant by the statement was that you will never be able to create positive camber during cornering, which is bad, you want to beable to have that.
as for the lca, longer ones are bettter in the handling world, but if you're car is absolutely slammed, you could use shorter lca's to correct the problem i mentioned earlier about the camber.
but if you're not really low, longer ones would inded be better because of the amount of travel required to create the camber would be larger, and when using stiff springs and grippy tires and thick sway bars, you wont need this camber untill you are cornering much harder.

although I think if you lowered your car you would have negative camber that needed correcting, not positive.

[oldskoofame]

if your car was slammed, you would have negative camber
aka tires going like this / \ positive camber would be like this \ /
what I said was maybe a little confusing though.
I guess I gotta explain better.
First on the camber.
When you're lowered alot the LCA's on your car stick up more than out.
If you take a hard right corner when your LCA's are sticking straight out, no angles, the left springs compress bringing those wheels up, and making youre lca's stick up, creating camber of this fasion //- and the other spring will decompress, causing the lca to point down, creating camber of this fashion -// so the cars camber on the wheels will look like this
//--//
this is basically a very small scale of how motorcycles take corners, but individually with each wheel and not so drastically.
this is good for your handling.
If you're lca's are sticking up though, the left wheel cant go any further up, so it cannot create any camber, and the other lca will only go back down to straight, instea of angled down, so it will not create significant camber either.
Thats why you dont want your lca's sticking up.
All i meant by the statement was that you will never be able to create positive camber during cornering, which is bad, you want to beable to have that.
as for the lca, longer ones are bettter in the handling world, but if you're car is absolutely slammed, you could use shorter lca's to correct the problem i mentioned earlier about the camber.
but if you're not really low, longer ones would inded be better because of the amount of travel required to create the camber would be larger, and when using stiff springs and grippy tires and thick sway bars, you wont need this camber untill you are cornering much harder.

although I think if you lowered your car you would have negative camber that needed correcting, not positive.


1 word to replace your billion words: caster

problem solved. thread discussion complete.

[oldskoofame]

http://mike-kim.rohanroy.com/5.jpg

YMCA

[v1c10us]

1 word to replace your billion words: caster

problem solved. thread discussion complete.

word.
yes caster, and if your lca's are like the above, you're suspension cant possibly compensate and create the desired caster to take the corner optimally.

[ep_hatcher_510]

http://mike-kim.rohanroy.com/5.jpg

YMCA

sexy

[oldskoofame]

Wait why do we want Shorter LCAs and more positive camber. I've been reading about the CTR ep3s and their LCAs are even longer then ours. Ive had positive camber on my ep when i didnt have camber bolts in front, and the amount of understeer was intolerable. Just trying to clarify whats wrong and whats right.

forget positive camber. it's useless. it's a waste of time.
positive camber is like a pigeon toed kid needing to take a shit. so when he runs, he's basically running on the side walls of his feet cuz he's tightened his buttcheeks like f-ck. it's retarded.

broadly, MORE is better. probably up to -3.6 degrees of camber. Negative camber can help the way you use your tires. Your camber (along with the psi of the tires) will help you get your desired amount of contact patch - aka heat distribution with the tires.

What is heat distribution? Anything that rubs causes friction, which equal heat. That's basically what you see when you see: #/AA/A on tires. It's the consistency of heat transfer in and out of the tires. When you have a certain degree of camber, your tires will respond by only using the amount of tire patch the camber measurement allows. If you ride with -4 camber, you'll see only half of your tires will be used (assuming you have the recommended tire psi). When VICIOUS was explaining about the "sitffer spring rates, sticky tires, not needing that much camber" is because stickier tires are usually created with stiffer (re-enforced) sidewalls - thus the wall flexes less. Why is the wall stiffer? it's for better response, better performance for the tread and a more controllable tuning.

Going back to negative camber....
Negative camber helps you get the grip that the tires can provide you with. Think about snowboarding or body boarding or surfing. In order to turn well, you need to clip it and lean into the turn. Same with the tires, it needs to lean (the negative camber) and clip the ground.

Have you ever used an eraser that's shaped of a rectangular block?
It glides easier when you rub on the corner.
But when you rub with the wide flat surface, it's difficult - That's the grip you want.
When you turn, your tires are ready to use its flat surface that you allowed it to use from your negative camber.

[oldskoofame]

here's a diagram that i drew to simplify the concept
http://mike-kim.rohanroy.com/camber.JPG
the red boxes indicate the crucial areas of contact with the asphalt that will affect traction.
The inner circle displays the temperature usage (also broadly known as contact patch)

to learn any further from reading, you really need to experience it urself. Go out, experiment during ur daily driving, keep reading, experience it, and such.

[v1c10us]

yes thats all true but I think your misunderstanding me.
Positive camber is bad if its permanantly dialed in, but so is lots of negative camber.
When you take a Right hand corner the car leans to the left
So this compresses the left side, creating negative camber, creating that carving like a motorcycle or a snowboard as you said.
but on the opposite side, the spring is decompressing, creating POSITIVE camber, but because it is possitive its causing the tire to lean the same way, so that it can also carve into the ground.
straight lca's will make you're tires do this arround a corner
//--//
so they both get that good angled grip.
if you had negative camber on BOTH wheels around the corner, it'd be like this
//--\\ and only one wheel would have a good angle, and the other wheel would be sliding on its sidewall.
Positive and negative camber are both equally good, but only in cornering situations where they are a result of the turn.
So i agree with everything you said with one exception positive camber is not useless, its not a waste of time, its just as good as negative camber.
But one wheel must be positive and one must be negative, having both the same is not ideal.

[oldskoofame]

yes thats all true but I think your misunderstanding me.
Positive camber is bad if its permanantly dialed in, but so is lots of negative camber.
When you take a Right hand corner the car leans to the left
So this compresses the left side, creating negative camber, creating that carving like a motorcycle or a snowboard as you said.
but on the opposite side, the spring is decompressing, creating POSITIVE camber, but because it is possitive its causing the tire to lean the same way, so that it can also carve into the ground.
straight lca's will make you're tires do this arround a corner
//--//
so they both get that good angled grip.
if you had negative camber on BOTH wheels around the corner, it'd be like this
//--\\ and only one wheel would have a good angle, and the other wheel would be sliding on its sidewall.
Positive and negative camber are both equally good, but only in cornering situations where they are a result of the turn.
So i agree with everything you said with one exception positive camber is not useless, its not a waste of time, its just as good as negative camber.
But one wheel must be positive and one must be negative, having both the same is not ideal.

yea i know what u are explaining lol
its' like when i kart, we just give it caster to create that effect.

[mustclime]

its sad to see how little people know about our suspensions on this site....:mfrown:

Its nice that some people kinda understand camber, and its also kinda cool a couple people under stand that dropping the suspension to much kills your rollcenters. But so many of the old timers sold their cars before they took the time to figure out the suspension.....Its just sad.:mcry:

[moso]

wats sad is i still dont know where this fuckin noise is coming from

[v1c10us]

its sad to see how little people know about our suspensions on this site....:mfrown:

Its nice that some people kinda understand camber, and its also kinda cool a couple people under stand that dropping the suspension to much kills your rollcenters. But so many of the old timers sold their cars before they took the time to figure out the suspension.....Its just sad.:mcry:

I dont really know how our suspensions work, especially not the fronts
the wishbones I understand a little better just because of the simplicity of it.
Camber makes sense to me, I'm probably just not explaining it well, if you were in my head you'd understand. The lca length thing i was talking about was probably a bit off though haha.
At 19 i guess I would consider myself a new timer.

[mustclime]

I dont really know how our suspensions work, especially not the fronts
the wishbones I understand a little better just because of the simplicity of it.
Camber makes sense to me, I'm probably just not explaining it well, if you were in my head you'd understand. The lca length thing i was talking about was probably a bit off though haha.
At 19 i guess I would consider myself a new timer.

read through this....

http://forums.clubep3.net/showthread.php?t=569763

and this....

http://forums.clubep3.net/showthread.php?t=565676


see if that helps.

[v1c10us]

yeah I read the second one on motion ratios and spring rates etc several times almost to the point of memorization. I'll go ahead and read the first one

[v1c10us]

read the first link in light detail, I already knew a good portion of that I just didn't know what any of it was called.
however I had no idea about the caster on the front
I also didn't know about toe bushings adjusting the angle based on cornering load, so I'd say its an informative read, thanks for the link, I bookmarked it.