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View Full Version : Thinking about building the bottom end...



shadowmd
07-09-2008, 04:57 AM
well since the head is built (gonna change up the cams soon) but i would now like to look at the bottom end. I don't wanna go crazy here....compression no higher than 12:1. I was lookin at just gettin type-r pistons and gettin new rods. I was just gonna get new type-s or type-r rods (are the same???) or would gettin eagle rods benefit me any with just type-r pistons??? could anyone make some recommendations? Not too familiar with where to look for other pistons....i was lookin at wiseco as well....there about $615 for pistons at 86.00mm (bore) / 3.386".....i guess a lil help would be nice lol

it be nice to make about 235whp or so. Im gonna be upgrading the cams to a stage II cam so of course the 235whp would be after the cams. I think im just gonna start with some brian crower stage II's then a lil later after i recoup some funds, get some IPS or Blue Print......

thanks!


PLAN!!!!!!!!!!!! also found on post 21

well met up with chunky today. looks like i have a plan! lol

he has a spare a2 block layin around and im gonna buy. he is gona take a measuremeant of the cylinders and we will figure out what pistons i need. im gonna find a crank, order eagle H beam rods and then order the pistons (once we know what i need). so i will pretty much have a built short block. crank, pistons and rods assembled. then over xmas break, we will pull my car in my dads shop, pull the motor and tranny. remove my oil pump, oil pan and all accessories. the head, some new stage II cams ( :mcool: ), etc. then assemble them on the spare block then re-install that in my car .....oo and i will also be installing an lsd and a type-r final drive along with a lightend flywheel......gonna be a 9000rpm beast!...prob. gonna run around 12:1 compression....again, we will know onc measurements are taken

davisj3537
07-09-2008, 07:10 AM
Honestly Sam if you are pulling the block and gonna have to take it to a machine shop to hone anyway why not just bore it out to like 86.5 or 87mm? Then drop in some coated 12:1 pistons or something. When dropping so much money putting in the pistons and tearing it all apart why not just upgrade to some nice forged rods too...If you do get forged rods/pistons then you might want to consider taking out the oil jets.:juggle: Oh BTW the Brian Crower cams are a great choice!

Ba82Ep3
07-09-2008, 07:43 AM
Id say just clean up the cylinder walls and try to avoid an overbore (depends on cylinder wall condition/spec). 12CR isnt a lot persay, but the larger the bore, the thinner the cylinder walls. It isnt likely, but if for some reason you get that wild hair to add a SC or put together another turbo kit... you run a greater risk of blowin out the top of the cylinderwall (this is the primary reason for sleeving a block).

I know there was discussion about certain kinds of forged pistons that are fine for DD use... and some just are not. If i remember correctly what i read, its the type of material they are made from. So if that is the case (i hope someone else will chime in and add to this... Doug/Lucid/etc) your forged piston choice is even smaller and probably pricier in number.

If the above is true... i would just stick with the OEM type R pistons (you know theyre good for DD use) and find better rods and get good bearings, bolts,etc. Balance the crank, polish it up and have fun putting it all back together.

Cams?? Damn the temptation... :msmile:

Personally, i want to turn my old a3 into a 2.2 with a stroker kit (maybe a modded ap2 crank?). Its the perfect addition of TQ that gives you just a little more... but not so much you cant step on the gas w/o wheelspin like the 2.4.

davisj3537
07-09-2008, 08:23 AM
Whatever you end up doing just remember the old saying "Do it right the first time". Get exactly what you want despite price cuz you never want to say I wish I would have just spent the extra money and got this or that.

shadowmd
07-09-2008, 08:56 AM
exactly lol.....im def. gonna do it right the first time. im gonna do a lot of research to get exactly what i want. i am gonna stay na. so i want something that will be fun, but more important...RELIABLE.........thats why i am leaning more towards type-r internals.....but i have some learning to do. so any more opinions would be great! and......thanks to u two already

kon
07-09-2008, 09:40 AM
If you plan on building the block, why not start with the K24 block. Just pick up a K24 case with crank and get that bad boy built. Once its done, swap out bottom ends.

shadowmd
07-09-2008, 09:49 AM
Yea i was also thinkin about that....that would be NICE! but i love to rev lol..........something about 9k just makes me drool lol.....i kno everyone says that with a k24, u don't need to rev high to make power, but thats the thing....i love to rev out my car hahaha..............i think im leanin more towards the type-r pistons and rods....i need it to be reliable first, then i can think about performance...

davisj3537
07-09-2008, 09:50 AM
If you plan on building the block, why not start with the K24 block. Just pick up a K24 case with crank and get that bad boy built. Once its done, swap out bottom ends.

Yeah that or now that I know you are wanting reliability at the top of the list then have you thought about just swapping in a k24a2 shortblock? You like revving high though don't you?

mustclime
07-09-2008, 09:51 AM
read the header and was expecting porn........:mfrown:

shadowmd
07-09-2008, 09:57 AM
You like revving high though don't you?

OOOOO yes! LOL im a ricer hahahahaha

kon
07-09-2008, 10:09 AM
I like to rev high too...LOL. Something about watching that needle going to 9K excites me :mredface:

Gilmour
07-09-2008, 01:09 PM
A micro-polished K20a2 crank, OEM bearings, with Maxi lite rods (Brian Crower), and a set of OEM type-r pistons (coated) would be a sick bottom end in a K20.

You could always pick up a K20a3 block and use that as a base, then recoup on your resale of an OEM A2 block. (If it’s still in good health)

v1c10us
07-09-2008, 01:33 PM
if the k24 was larger bore as opposed to stroke I would say throw some big ass darton sleeves in there to bring it down to 2.2liters and still rev to 9k
but the problem is the stroke so i guess that wouldn't work.

davisj3537
07-09-2008, 01:56 PM
if the k24 was larger bore as opposed to stroke I would say throw some big ass darton sleeves in there to bring it down to 2.2liters and still rev to 9k
but the problem is the stroke so i guess that wouldn't work.

You could put those sleeves in a k20 and stroke it out to a 2.2 safely and still rev high...but I think that is alot more money and work than Sam is looking for.

classiccelica
07-09-2008, 02:03 PM
HUH HUH yeah rev rev rev HUh yeah. I love the needle in my buddies 06 kpro'd type-s with some other goodies as well rev to 8600rpm. The sound and the excitement of omg is it ever going to stop revving.

shadowmd
07-09-2008, 02:04 PM
yea...i like the sound of this :mcool:

"A micro-polished K20a2 crank, OEM bearings, with Maxi lite rods (Brian Crower), and a set of OEM type-r pistons (coated) would be a sick bottom end in a K20"

shadowmd
07-09-2008, 02:07 PM
HUH HUH yeah rev rev rev HUh yeah. I love the needle in my buddies 06 kpro'd type-s with some other goodies as well rev to 8600rpm. The sound and the excitement of omg is it ever going to stop revving.
yea my normal rev limit is 8700 and its sweet! the few times i set it to 9k, 3rd goes to pratcially 1000mph! :mangel:


and yea, my a2 block is still good. :mcool: just wanna beef it up a lil :mtongue:

classiccelica
07-09-2008, 03:59 PM
Damn third goes to 1000mph. Now I have to get that combination. Just kidding. I see you have z3 cams what is the bennifit of those over the z1 cams. What is your et since you trap 103

shadowmd
07-09-2008, 06:52 PM
well i trapped 14.0 at 103 lol....traction ftl! when i went to the track that time. my tire pressure was at 30psi...so i didnt hook up at all.....thats why my actual time sucked. next time i go, i hope to have DR's.

classiccelica
07-09-2008, 07:41 PM
I may have seen some of your videos on streetfire or youtube. If that is in fact your car then damn good work. I already have the 2003 type-s six speed ready to go in just need a cheap lsd that will work, and the a2 or z1 to finish the swap. The motor will have to wait for a little bit though.

shadowmd
07-09-2008, 07:42 PM
well met up with chunky today. looks like i have a plan! lol

he has a spare a2 block layin around and im gonna use that. he is gona take a measure meant of the cylinders and we will figure out what pistons i need. im gonna find a crank, order eagle H beam rods and then order the pistons (once we know what i need). so i will pretty much have a built short block. crank, pistons and rods assembled. then over xmas break, we will pull my car in my dads shop, pull the motor and tranny. remove my oil pump, oil pan and all accessories. the head, some new stage II cams ( :mcool: ), etc. then assemble them on the spare block then re-install that in my car :mcool: .....oo and i will also be installing an lsd and a type-r final drive along with a lightend flywheel :mtongue: gonna be a new beast!

shadowmd
07-09-2008, 07:43 PM
I may have seen some of your videos on streetfire or youtube. If that is in fact your car then damn good work. I already have the 2003 type-s six speed ready to go in just need a cheap lsd that will work, and the a2 or z1 to finish the swap. The motor will have to wait for a little bit though.

lol is that my car? haha

j/p yea its mine :mwink:

classiccelica
07-09-2008, 07:47 PM
Wow really? Holy crap man I was just watching your videos today cuz I hurt my back at work now I am off till it gets better, and I fell in love with that acceleration and rpm. Great work man, maybe you and can talk somemore on pm and get me some edumacation on this swap.

shadowmd
07-09-2008, 07:54 PM
and yea they were on youtube... think i have like 6....my name is like shadowep3 or something lol those are the ones u saw right? some are night shots and others are day...but they are all of the speedo/tach...right? cause those are mine

classiccelica
07-09-2008, 08:00 PM
Yes sir that is exactly what I saw. I love it, I really can't wait to get mine. Oh yeah what bennifit do the z3 cams have over the other options such as z1.

shadowmd
07-09-2008, 08:15 PM
well...the z3 intake is bigger but the z1 exhaust is bigger than the z3...the z3 exhaust cam is the same as the a2. so really, a good combo would be z3 intake and z1 exhaust. make sure to get an RBC intake mani too! :mcool:

classiccelica
07-09-2008, 09:10 PM
Really I didn't know that the z3 intake cam is bigger and the z1 exhaust cam is bigger than the z3's. That would be something awesome to combine, does the rbc really make that much of a difference without being forced induced though?

shadowmd
07-10-2008, 04:21 AM
oo yea! u only need boost if ur still rockin the a3 and want the rbc. the rbc loves rpm's. so yea, i picked up 9whp alone from an rbc once it was tuned

FoReVaPmP
07-10-2008, 04:48 AM
SAM will nevah be happyz with the beast that is his engine.:whistle:

shadowmd
07-10-2008, 04:52 AM
lol....well these parts will ACTUALLY be going in lol

FoReVaPmP
07-10-2008, 04:55 AM
lol....well these parts will ACTUALLY be going in lol

:msmile: I'm holding you to it......:msmooch:

shadowmd
07-10-2008, 06:49 AM
oo they shall be in and ready for the MDBBQ 09'!!

Gilmour
07-10-2008, 06:59 AM
lol....well these parts will ACTUALLY be going in lol

LOL

I seem to remember a SC then Turbo with no install.:mcry:

But it looks like you've found the right path.:mbiggrin:

talonXracer
07-10-2008, 07:05 AM
Go with the Blueprint ultralight rods and a set of typeR pistons with an extra thick ceramic coating on top. Most drivers do not have the patience for forged pistons, they turn the key and start driving right away. If you try that with forged pistons you will wear them out very quickly and score the cylinder walls, forged pistons must be close to operating temps before you start hammering on the engine.

kon
07-10-2008, 07:26 AM
Go with the Blueprint ultralight rods and a set of typeR pistons with an extra thick ceramic coating on top. Most drivers do not have the patience for forged pistons, they turn the key and start driving right away. If you try that with forged pistons you will wear them out very quickly and score the cylinder walls, forged pistons must be close to operating temps before you start hammering on the engine.

Thats exactly why I sit in my driveway for 5 minutes before taking off. People think I'm retarded or my car is broken.

classiccelica
07-10-2008, 08:04 AM
Not retarded at all very very smart in my opinion. I always get my car up to operating temperatures before heading out on my way. It is always smart to get that oil heated up and circulating properly before driving anything. So I guess 9whp is pretty good off just the intake manifold. So was that fifth gear that I saw in your video going 140

shadowmd
07-10-2008, 09:16 AM
Go with the Blueprint ultralight rods and a set of typeR pistons with an extra thick ceramic coating on top. Most drivers do not have the patience for forged pistons, they turn the key and start driving right away. If you try that with forged pistons you will wear them out very quickly and score the cylinder walls, forged pistons must be close to operating temps before you start hammering on the engine.

yea i see what ur sayin but i always let my car warm up for a good 5min before i go anywhere :mwink: :mbiggrin:

shadowmd
07-10-2008, 09:17 AM
Not retarded at all very very smart in my opinion. I always get my car up to operating temperatures before heading out on my way. It is always smart to get that oil heated up and circulating properly before driving anything. So I guess 9whp is pretty good off just the intake manifold. So was that fifth gear that I saw in your video going 140

yup.

shadowmd
07-10-2008, 09:18 AM
LOL

I seem to remember a SC then Turbo with no install.:mcry:

But it looks like you've found the right path.:mbiggrin:

hahah yea...im an n/a guy at heart :mbiggrin:

classiccelica
07-10-2008, 10:45 AM
Damn so 140 in fifth huh? What can you do in sixth?

shadowmd
07-10-2008, 10:47 AM
never tried lol and 5th wasn't maxed out

classiccelica
07-10-2008, 11:01 AM
Damn I know that was damn beautiful. So what exactly was your setup in that video.

shadowmd
07-10-2008, 11:53 AM
what u see in my sig minus the bcrh, bc exhaust and injem mr cai. i had a jrrh, t1r 63mm catback and an older injen cai...different design. everything else was the same.

classiccelica
07-10-2008, 12:19 PM
Ok damn, who would have thought that newer factory cams and really a factory motor would pull so damn hard. Great job on that man, this would be the perfect build for me living in california with the smog regulations and such. How much do you think I could get the a2 for? Do you have the 4.3 final drive as well.

shadowmd
07-10-2008, 12:30 PM
Its a stock a2 6spd tranny. soon to have the 4.77 final drive tho :mcool: u could prob. find a2's for aroun 3700 or so.....i got mine with everything about 1.5yrs ago for about 4k and it had about 15k on it

classiccelica
07-10-2008, 02:12 PM
See isn't that with wiring harness and transmission, I already have the tranny.

shadowmd
07-10-2008, 02:58 PM
yup....u could prob. find the long block for like 2800-2900 or so

classiccelica
07-10-2008, 04:16 PM
Yeah that is what I thought expensive but worth it. Cheaper than a jrsc-r and works better.