Thinking about doing a K24A1 Swap...

[Kanzen Taichou]

Ok I've read the basics on the swap. If I go K24A1 then I'll swap the head and Frankenstein the shit out of it. I would like to know what is a good path to take while on budget and try to keep the swap mild for now... The main question is:
Would it be possible to swap the tranny and get an AWD EP3?? This is out of pure curiousity
Also what would that entail if it were possible?
With the frankenstein, at what point would I have to switch to premium gas?

Oh yeah, and what started the question of AWD was that I saw an ad in the classifieds from "Wilde Toyota" about a 2000 Civic AWD....... LOL

[Kanzen Taichou]

Keeping the swap mild but then also wanting AWD :pound:

AWD is a curiousity question no real effort on trying it unless it is totally plausible...

For the K24 build I would like to know how to mildy tune it on a budget, and where to get a good K24.

I'm talking about budget as in:
In debt
newborn daughter
non-working mother/fiance
soon to be married in a couple of months
part time schooling 2 night

[Kodeen]

AWD is a curiousity question no real effort on trying it unless it is totally plausible...

You would incur an extreme amount of cost and effort to convert to AWD.

[Emerica459]

AWD is a curiousity question no real effort on trying it unless it is totally plausible...

For the K24 build I would like to know how to mildy tune it on a budget, and where to get a good K24.

I'm talking about budget as in:
In debt
newborn daughter
non-working mother/fiance
soon to be married in a couple of months
part time schooling 2 night

I am in about the same boat, except I had a lil boy 3 months ago.

I suggest you talk to PAPITUYO326 about a K24A1, and swap that mother into your car with bolt ons and Kpro for starters. Enjoy that setup for a lil while and then at your own pace find an A2 head and oil pump to complete the frank.

I have been playin with this idea. I know for sure I will be swapping a K24a1 (eventually) but i dont know if i want to frankenstein it or supercharge it.

[thechromecoyote]

I am in about the same boat, except I had a lil boy 3 months ago.

I suggest you talk to PAPITUYO326 about a K24A1, and swap that mother into your car with bolt ons and Kpro for starters. Enjoy that setup for a lil while and then at your own pace find an A2 head and oil pump to complete the frank.

I have been playin with this idea. I know for sure I will be swapping a K24a1 (eventually) but i dont know if i want to frankenstein it or supercharge it.

Do both! :cheer2:

low compression, Supercharged 2.4L w. 3 lobe vtec and an aggressive intake cam from the 06+ TSX ... :mtongue::hungry:

[davisj3537]

Just a k24a1 swap with kpro and bolt ons will cost you close to 5k.

[bchaney]

AWD is a curiousity question no real effort on trying it unless it is totally plausible...

For the K24 build I would like to know how to mildy tune it on a budget, and where to get a good K24.

I'm talking about budget as in:
In debt
newborn daughter
non-working mother/fiance
soon to be married in a couple of months
part time schooling 2 night

I recommend getting your finances straight before putting any money into a car.

[pynikal]

^^^what he said!!

[illusionsoflife]

I recommend getting your finances straight before putting any money into a car.

exactly!!!! i was like you when my daughter was born. she turned one this past sunday. lots happened...her mom left me 2 weeks after she was born. then begged for me back after she !@#$ someone else. but now its all good. single...have two amazing daughters one 2 one 1. this weekend the cybernation kit goes on. then in two months kpro and k24a1 then in october area the turbo goes back on and tuned. just lay low for now. also your going to find here soon your intrest in the car is going to slow down with the new baby and slowly come back

[Emerica459]

Just a k24a1 swap with kpro and bolt ons will cost you close to 5k.

Not quite

The way i see it is around 1k for basic i/rh/e (we will say injen cai, dcrh, and whatever exhaust you want), 1k for Kpro, and 1.3k for the K24A1.

Thats 3300(ish) for a k24a1 with bolt ons. Should yield many smiles before he has to swap the A2 head on. Still a bit less than the said 5k

[Ba82Ep3]

Need a (good) clutch and engine mounts (Innovative/Hasport/ESMM's) also... its the little shit that adds up with a swap. 5k is reasonable and realistic. Been there done that. You are also limited in header/exhaust choices... unless you fork out the bread for a Hytech header or go totally custom... each costing $$$.

[Emerica459]

Need a (good) clutch and engine mounts (Innovative/Hasport/ESMM's) also... its the little shit that adds up with a swap. 5k is reasonable and realistic. Been there done that. You are also limited in header/exhaust choices... unless you fork out the bread for a Hytech header or go totally custom... each costing $$$.

ep specific dcrh works on a K24 swap with minimul clearence issues if any. ESMM cost 25 bucks. Yes a clutch should get thrown on the list. BUT it still isnt 5k. Closer to 4k maybe.

[v1c10us]

if you notice that nifty little thing by your legs, cupholders, cubby, ebrake, etc..
In a normal car, or an awd car, there is a tunnel that would go all the way to the back.
for the ep AWD would require the driveshaft to go under the car or in the car, not gonna work.

[Ba82Ep3]

ep specific dcrh works on a K24 swap with minimul clearence issues if any. ESMM cost 25 bucks. Yes a clutch should get thrown on the list. BUT it still isnt 5k. Closer to 4k maybe.

HAHA! With no swaybar MAYBE. Have you swapped a k24... or are you spouting off what you have read/heard? ESMM's are MINIMAL for a k24 and really arent enough. They are a thin band-aid at best. A good clutch will hit ya right at $450+.

Here is where you concede and say... "Ok, well if i wanted to do it RIGHT, then 5k seems possible." Or you can agree that 3.5k is the way to half ass a k24 swap. The choice is yours...

[davisj3537]

ep specific dcrh works on a K24 swap with minimul clearence issues if any. ESMM cost 25 bucks. Yes a clutch should get thrown on the list. BUT it still isnt 5k. Closer to 4k maybe.

I say 5k cuz it sure doesn't sound like this guy is doing his own work. So 1k for the swap and bolt ons and then another 400 for tune. You easily reach 5k quickly. Then add in hoses/gaskets/coolant/oil/tranny oil....etc. 4K is barely feasible if you DO do your own work(and that is still half ass).Here is a listing and the bolts ons are used and poor quality(especially dcrh).
Kpro-1000
k24a1(shipped)-1300
DCRH-270
CAI-100
Catback-350
Mounts-280
Clutch/fly-500
Tune-400
Oils/coolant/gaskets-110
Labor-minimum is 1000 unless you give amazing bj's

So a very meager 1000 for labor brings it up to 5310!

[04cvcsi]

I'm talking about budget as in:
In debt
newborn daughter
non-working mother/fiance
soon to be married in a couple of months
part time schooling 2 night

whoa....sorry man, i don't know how or why you'd think to budget in a motor swap, let alone modifying anything to your car

[Emerica459]

HAHA! With no swaybar MAYBE. Have you swapped a k24... or are you spouting off what you have read/heard? ESMM's are MINIMAL for a k24 and really arent enough. They are a thin band-aid at best. A good clutch will hit ya right at $450+.

Here is where you concede and say... "Ok, well if i wanted to do it RIGHT, then 5k seems possible." Or you can agree that 3.5k is the way to half ass a k24 swap. The choice is yours...

Geez dude take it easy. I have not claimed to of swapped a K24. A good clutch for 450 sounds a bit excessive. Just cus you swapped in a motor with a whopping 30 tq more doesnt mean you need a racing clutch.

I will concede that yes 5k seems feasible, for myself it seems 4k is possible cus i do all my own work.

But you didnt have to be an asshole about it.

[Emerica459]

Here is a listing and the bolts ons are used and poor quality(especially dcrh).


Whats wrong with a DCRH? People have been running these for years and have had no issues. Its just an affordable name brand race header.

[davisj3537]

Whats wrong with a DCRH? People have been running these for years and have had no issues. Its just an affordable name brand race header.

It is the lowest quality RH on the market is it not? The OBX header even made more power. Also on the clutch the only two companies that make a clutch for the ep are over 400. If you want to get a cheaper clutch then you need a rsx fly too.

[Emerica459]

It is the lowest quality RH on the market is it not? The OBX header even made more power. Also on the clutch the only two companies that make a clutch for the ep are over 400. If you want to get a cheaper clutch then you need a rsx fly too.

Quality is not measured in horsepower output. I would be more concerned with build and fitment. And its still excellent bang for your buck.

[PAPITUYO326]

for a mild k24a1 setup (under 230 whp/190wtq), i suggest an oem crv clutch. I have lost any and all semblance of faith in the engineering done by these companies.

The pressure plate is the same part #as the ep. So is the required flywheel. Just swap in a fresh CRV clutch disk and you have an OEM clutch designed to carry MOST of your newfound torque. Sure

I've been running mine for a littler over 6 months and I love it. The grip is great, even with my not so mild mods... and it feels so much more solid than my last aftermarket clutch.

[Mikebuen]

Man Not to hate on you but I would do it right or do it twice! Spend the extra cash if you really really want a K24A1 setup to last and don't cut corners or you will kick yourself in the butt when something you didn't swap out goes out on you. I've done a swap on a budget and tried to cut corners, it will haunt you when things go out. If I knew what I know now I would have done the swap differently.
I would say save the money and put it towards bills and whatever your Daughter might need IMO.

[illusionsoflife]

dont mod if your in debt. i had 1200 dollars in credit card bills. i paid them off then spent a good amount on my ep but at the same time supporting two daughters. being 23 years old its pretty hard. i stress so much. but slowly get there. i got rid of things i liked but have more fun with the car. trying to sell my xbox and games so i can get new dspecs. sold my 65 inch tv to get my turbo. but still have a good size tv. just be carefull. youll feel like complete shit if you buy something for your car you dont need and cant afford something for your daughter. give it a few months like i said before. youll fall completly in love with this kid. then youll thank a lot of us that are trying to help you out. it might seem like we're all being dicks and jelous of you getting a new motor. but really everyone here has the same car. no one really trys to out do the other. it sucks to see a fellow member go down or have something happen to his car. i would say keep the k20a3 for now. get a used jrsc run the power card that will put you above a k24a1 stock power. and be ALOT better for your case right now. be carefull though. these cars are money pits. but i plan on keeping this car forever. its my 3rd kid.

[davisj3537]

Quality is not measured in horsepower output. I would be more concerned with build and fitment. And its still excellent bang for your buck.

It is a good bang for buck but just as stated but, its still the lowest header on the totem pole. The header barely clears the sway bar (only when weight is on the wheels making it hard to work on when jacked up)and still raises the catback up enough to where it normally hits the bottom of the car. They are prone to cracking even with the ESMM and the primary pipes are not all the exact same length like your nicer headers. Plus Talon got ,I believe, 37 more ftlbs on a SSR over a JRRH(which is still considerably better than the dcrh).

[davisj3537]

These cars are money pits.

Damn right...I dropped 15g before I even realized what was going on.

[pynikal]

Damn right...I dropped 15g before I even realized what was going on.


:meek:GODDAM!!!!!!!:meek:

[davisj3537]

:meek:GODDAM!!!!!!!:meek:

Yeah what a horrible waste of money...but I learned a skill and now I'm making money doing it so FUCK YEAH!

[Kanzen Taichou]

I recommend getting your finances straight before putting any money into a car.
Yea, this isn't going to happen any time soon.. I'm still playing with the idea and the many facets and ways that it can go... I would love the high revability.... but that's not too practical if i'm looking for raw get up and go power...

[Ba82Ep3]

Geez dude take it easy. I have not claimed to of swapped a K24. A good clutch for 450 sounds a bit excessive. Just cus you swapped in a motor with a whopping 30 tq more doesnt mean you need a racing clutch.

I will concede that yes 5k seems feasible, for myself it seems 4k is possible cus i do all my own work.

But you didnt have to be an asshole about it.

I was hardly being an asshole... just suggesting you were talking from yours. All i was askin is if you were typing facts from experience... or were concluding thoughts from the bazillions of threads available on the net on this very subject. You were the one spouting off what "was" and "was not" right. The rest of us mildly corrected you. Here you take offense.

By the way... a ClutchMasters stg4 clutch isnt a race clutch. It is still ony a single plate design with clamping loads much lower than what Racing Clutches have to offer. You commenting on a "whoppin 30 tq more" speaks volumes of your ingnorance.

Get your hands dirty with a k24 swap. Learn to use some dial calipers and what value a line bore has for you and your engine/build. THEN let us know your opinions... until then YOURE being the asshole. Incorrect information is not helping anyone at all... no matter how many times you try to defend your intent.

[03Si757]

I wipe my own azz, so i know my shyt!!!!

[Guardian]

HAHA! With no swaybar MAYBE. Have you swapped a k24... or are you spouting off what you have read/heard? ESMM's are MINIMAL for a k24 and really arent enough. They are a thin band-aid at best. A good clutch will hit ya right at $450+.

Here is where you concede and say... "Ok, well if i wanted to do it RIGHT, then 5k seems possible." Or you can agree that 3.5k is the way to half ass a k24 swap. The choice is yours...
bs im on stock mounts with esmmi and im not buying shit till i brake one, and i get no wheel hop. i think weltall is also on them.

and you can get a CC stage 4 for about 380 and i got my type-s flywheel for 20 bucks.

for the swap all you need is
k24a1 $1300
oil,filter let say $30
coolant $5
if you need the clutch $380
lets say $60 for the most for a type-s fly wheel
passenger side mount that comes with daves engines.
then add your $1000 for bolt-ons
$850 for k-pro
and $25 for esmmi

=$3650 assuming you can do your own work
+a few hundred for a tune

hell for less the 5k you could also get a a2 head, gasket, and arp studs, and maybe a2 oil pump

or you can spend less then 4k and get a rev hard kit with k-pro and own the shit out of a k24a1 swap

[davisj3537]

Corners can always be cut if you wait long enough for the right seller and know your way around the biz. Doing your own labor saves tons of money but unless you do then there is little chance of getting a bolt on k24 for under 5g's without cuttins corners that you will regret later down the road.

[Ba82Ep3]

bs im on stock mounts with esmm and im not buying shit till i break one, and i get no wheel hop. i think weltall is also on them.

I never said anything about wheel hop. :shrug:

Wheel hop is MOSTLY a driver issue... not SOLELY an engine mount issue... IMO anyways...

[weltall]

yup stock mounts with esmm

ive broken 1 mount and was able to replace it cheap

ill upgrade mounts when i do my tranny build in the winter


and yeah wheel hop= 50% tires 50% driver

[crhatch02]

Corners can always be cut if you wait long enough for the right seller and know your way around the biz. Doing your own labor saves tons of money but unless you do then there is little chance of getting a bolt on k24 for under 5g's without cuttins corners that you will regret later down the road.

Said with nothing but TRUTH

[Kanzen Taichou]

Thanks guys I'm glad that I can always come to EPHATCH and know that I won't get flamed but supported. keep up the advice

[Emerica459]

I was hardly being an asshole... just suggesting you were talking from yours. All i was askin is if you were typing facts from experience... or were concluding thoughts from the bazillions of threads available on the net on this very subject. You were the one spouting off what "was" and "was not" right. The rest of us mildly corrected you. Here you take offense.

By the way... a ClutchMasters stg4 clutch isnt a race clutch. It is still ony a single plate design with clamping loads much lower than what Racing Clutches have to offer. You commenting on a "whoppin 30 tq more" speaks volumes of your ingnorance.

Get your hands dirty with a k24 swap. Learn to use some dial calipers and what value a line bore has for you and your engine/build. THEN let us know your opinions... until then YOURE being the asshole. Incorrect information is not helping anyone at all... no matter how many times you try to defend your intent.


The only thing that i should of been corrected on was that a dcrh had minor clearence issues. Which i was told by davis himself in another thread when i did ask about what header setup needs to be used on the swap. I also stated that the swap could be done for under 4k doin the work yourself and getting all necessary parts. Then you went on the offensive telling me i was wrong and cutting corners.

And if your implying that i dont know what i am talkin about when it comes to doing my own work then you are way wrong buddy.

[Ba82Ep3]

The only thing that i should of been corrected on was that a dcrh had minor clearence issues. Which i was told by davis himself in another thread when i did ask about what header setup needs to be used on the swap. I also stated that the swap could be done for under 4k doin the work yourself and getting all necessary parts. Then you went on the offensive telling me i was wrong and cutting corners.

And if your implying that i dont know what i am talkin about when it comes to doing my own work then you are way wrong buddy.

So um... after all that. Have you done a k24 swap? Just curious? :shrug:

I mean we can dance around for the rest of this threads existence if ya like. You still have yet to realize what my "quotes" should mean to you. Have you or have you not swapped a k24 into an EP... or even been remotely close to said event with so much as a screwdriver? OR. Has what you been typing on this thread been bits and pieces of what you have read or heard... and you are just passing off this "knowledge" in your comments?

"Theres a difference between knowing the path, and walking the path."

No implications here. I ask a question. You elude an answer. Take it for what you will. Just dont take it personal, and continue to wiggle out from under the proverbial rock by making this about ME.

Mkay?

[03Si757]

Ill make a note on one thing, I did a K24a1 swap and sum what cut corners, and to be honest with you it has cost me a little over $4000. I wish I would have gotten KPro from the start.

[Emerica459]

So um... after all that. Have you done a k24 swap? Just curious? :shrug:

I mean we can dance around for the rest of this threads existence if ya like. You still have yet to realize what my "quotes" should mean to you. Have you or have you not swapped a k24 into an EP... or even been remotely close to said event with so much as a screwdriver? OR. Has what you been typing on this thread been bits and pieces of what you have read or heard... and you are just passing off this "knowledge" in your comments?

"Theres a difference between knowing the path, and walking the path."

No implications here. I ask a question. You elude an answer. Take it for what you will. Just dont take it personal, and continue to wiggle out from under the proverbial rock by making this about ME.

Mkay?

ok, we will end this now.

You are right, i have not swapped a K24 myself, i am stating what i have been told and read on here. I am fine with being corrected if something i say is not accurate information. This is after all a forum where people come to discuss our interests.

On the other hand I have much experience with motor swaps with other vehicles and wrenching in general. I know a thing or two about what is involved with undertaking such projects because i have done them before.

And hey, within the next year i will be "walking the path" so if have some inaccurate information then now is the time for me to find that out. Not when i have my car disassembled on my lift.

On that note, i apologize for taking this as far is it went.

[Ba82Ep3]

ok, we will end this now.

You are right, i have not swapped a K24 myself, i am stating what i have been told and read on here. I am fine with being corrected if something i say is not accurate information. This is after all a forum where people come to discuss our interests.

On the other hand I have much experience with motor swaps with other vehicles and wrenching in general. I know a thing or two about what is involved with undertaking such projects because i have done them before.

And hey, within the next year i will be "walking the path" so if have some inaccurate information then now is the time for me to find that out. Not when i have my car disassembled on my lift.

On that note, i apologize for taking this as far is it went.

Seriously... no need to aplogize. I guess one of my pet peeves is being the recipient of correct partial or just flat out inaccurate info. Not just here, but other sites as well. One of the things i do love about this site is it IS EP specific... so there is a higher chance someone has done what you wanna do... and he/shes either done it right OR wrong... both being a learning lesson for all interested. THAT is really why i pressed the swap issue. I too have swapped many an engine... not all k series... and not all hondas. General wrenching skills are also abundant round my way. So im there with ya... and certainly arent challenging your abilities by any means. But, even as often as the questions may be asked, it is up to all of us to try and provide accurate information.... just like we wanted when we originally had 5 posts, and thought a VAFC controller was a good purchase for our EP.

I hope you do swap a k24... you wont regret it. And contrary to what you may think about these past few interactions... if you asked, i would be one right under the hood helping you turn them wrenches. Its about the cars... and the people. And all the fun in between...

[davisj3537]

Seriously... no need to aplogize. I guess one of my pet peeves is being the recipient of correct partial or just flat out inaccurate info. Not just here, but other sites as well. One of the things i do love about this site is it IS EP specific... so there is a higher chance someone has done what you wanna do... and he/shes either done it right OR wrong... both being a learning lesson for all interested. THAT is really why i pressed the swap issue. I too have swapped many an engine... not all k series... and not all hondas. General wrenching skills are also abundant round my way. So im there with ya... and certainly arent challenging your abilities by any means. But, even as often as the questions may be asked, it is up to all of us to try and provide accurate information.... just like we wanted when we originally had 5 posts, and thought a VAFC controller was a good purchase for our EP.

I hope you do swap a k24... you wont regret it. And contrary to what you may think about these past few interactions... if you asked, i would be one right under the hood helping you turn them wrenches. Its about the cars... and the people. And all the fun in between...

He is not kidding...he helped me turn a few wrenches under my hood:hay:...ok it was between the sheets but whatever. I'm saying he doesn't mind helping out:gheyf:

[talonXracer]

Motor mounts have absolutely no impact on actual wheel hop what-so-ever!

Wheel hop is generated excusively at the tire/pavement contact point and is affected by suspension spring rates, both front and rear and tire traction.

With the stock mounts what you have is the header banging the swaybar and thump of the stock squishy mounts bottoming out. To keep the ESmm inserts from ripping you must apply some of the bushing grease used on their suspension bushings, use some and they will never rip.

end of story.

[bchaney]

So what's the benefit of a motor mount upgrade?

[Ba82Ep3]

He is not kidding...he helped me turn a few wrenches under my hood:hay:...ok it was between the sheets but whatever. I'm saying he doesn't mind helping out:gheyf:

:orly:

:spit:


Doug... im not gonna say i disagree with you... but i will say engine mounts that move too much store and release energy (TQ) like a spring. If the mounts are too soft, when you apply the throttle the engine moves in the mounts and can then cause the engine to "pop" back like an undamped spring on a strut. This can break traction as the driveline compensates for the motion that was stored or "wound up" in the mounts. This CAN be controlled by the driver. If it isnt, then wheel hop IS a common result.

Harder mounts allow for quicker and more efficient shifting/use of power than any soft mount... or ESMM damped mount. It gives the driver a more connected feel with the driveline and its response to throttle input. This is moreso noticeable on NA cars than Turbo cars.

Turbo cars arent usually driven like an NA car... so a REASONABLY driven turbo car will store the energy in the mounts and be less likely to "pop" back (through driver control). Most turbo drivers will shift easier than the average NA guy, knowing they have power in the pull of the gear (why most turbo guys like the longer gear trannies)... while modulating the throttle to avoid wheelspin... versus banging out each gear as efficiently/fast as possible to get the most out of each gear.

Again, driver is primary here. As far as NA goes... harder engine mounts and a competent driver will net a faster time slip (strip or twisties), giving everything else is identical by comparison.

And this wont apply to AWD. AWD is actully a little better with a softer mount. It saves axles/drivetrain parts and will let you launch a little harder.

When i tracked my EP with the ESMM's, and i was static in a specific gear through a corner (lets just say 3rd), i could stab the throttle and feel the movement in the mounts cause a delay in feel of where the RPM's were. Rev matching through a corner (downshifting) could be tricky and somewhat of a guesstimation at times, being several hundred RPM off. This feel is very similar to the mental adjustment you have to make if you ever manually shift an older tiptronic style transmission. You have to shift a few hundred RPM before your desired shiftpoint, to compensate for the shifting delay. (older Mercedes AMG paddle shift trannies (E55 AMG comes to mind) were like this.. needing almost 500RPM of "notice" to get your desired shift, or it would shift FOR you as a safety) The more TQ the car has, revmatching (upshifting) through a corner can be seriously affected with soft mounts... the result either being wheelspin by adding too much throttle, or too little throttle causing you to "tuck in" too close to your mark through the turn. The much firmer engine mounts ARE harder on the axles/driveline, but throttle modulation and traction control are much easier IMO... if you are in sync with your car.

:typing: