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AkinaGod
07-13-2008, 09:44 AM
I am looking into getting new suspension for my Ep and need to know what to consider when purchasing and where good sites have quality goods. I prefer product over price. I am looking for something that is excellent for touge and track. I always thought you had to match the suspension precisely though so if I had to choose then it would be touge. I know the street roads are different from track so I need a suspension that would work well on street. I do not drag race so please no drag racing suspension upgrades. Any advice and places to look?

liquid cooled
07-13-2008, 09:46 AM
WTF is touge? I roll on tein flex's very very happy with them, ride is a bit rough but not too bad.

AkinaGod
07-13-2008, 09:48 AM
Touge is "mountain" racing. I need something that is a good set up for mountain racing streets.

AkinaGod
07-13-2008, 09:53 AM
I roll on tein flex's very very happy with them, ride is a bit rough but not too bad.

Do you have any links or specific models? I looked these up on the Tein Site and saw a couple different versions: Stech, Htech, basic and super street damper, and type flex. Which is the ones your were talking about? Also what is a pillowball?

For any future reference I got the site here: http://www.tein.com/tech_info/a12.html

These are not just coil overs right? I should have been more specific, sorry. I need to get a full strut and suspension overhaul, I think my struts are bad in the front and either way they are getting really old so i want to replace the whole thing. No coilovers please.

AkinaGod
07-13-2008, 03:00 PM
Real quick, what are all the things I have to keep in mind when researching supsension? Bump, Rebound, Compression, lowering amount and adjustability, camber. What else am I missing? And where is a good place I can go to find actual test results competing top of the line brands for an EP? Sorry for putting this in 8thcivic but I just wanted a wider view for input.

EggShellSi
07-13-2008, 07:53 PM
Sorry for putting this in 8thcivic but I just wanted a wider view for input.

:ban: This is EPHATCH!!!

You might want to get in touch with "Vicious", he knows his shit.

AliG-EP3
07-13-2008, 08:19 PM
Nice avatar eggshell, and akina, PLEASE SEARCH. I don't know how many times over the years people have asked this question, and even said "so I'm a touge racer, and I need a good suspension....." Search "touge suspension"

v1c10us
07-13-2008, 08:56 PM
:ban: This is EPHATCH!!!

You might want to get in touch with "Vicious", he knows his shit.

i only know a little shit
mustclime or zzyxx(Xxx?Xx?) know the fuck out of some shit.


But to the OP; I believe you are confusing coilovers with shitty ebay products.
coilovers have the strut and shock combined as one, and are usually mated to each other perfectly.

If you are doing touge you're probably going to encounter some bumpy roads and stuff like that so i wouldn't go anything too stiff.

The Megan Racing coilovers have a straight arm which corrects a lot of the bump steer issues you encounter with a lowered car, which would be bad if you were driving on a cliff.
http://www.ephatch.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46830
thats a picture of the older ones.

Tein flex is the same deal but without the straight arm.
Progress makes good coilovers also(just to clarify, coilovers include the strut except for the skunk2 coilover sleeves)

If you want to be competitive in touge or autox you'll have to do a lot more research though.

madcityEP
07-14-2008, 05:25 AM
coilovers are mostly matcher perfectly. You can really bring them to life when you get the setup of the car to where you like it for your driving style, it just takes some R&D on the back roads to do it. If you want a nice street/track setup i would say koni spror kit. Best bang for the buck i have to say, before i got coilovers i loved the sport kit.

AkinaGod
07-14-2008, 08:38 AM
Nice avatar eggshell, and akina, PLEASE SEARCH. I don't know how many times over the years people have asked this question, and even said "so I'm a touge racer, and I need a good suspension....." Search "touge suspension"

I never said I was a touge racer I said I wanted it for touge. And the reason i ask is because I don't understand why there are so many brands out there that are non descriptive. Most of them don't fully describe what I need to know like adjustability and rebound, etc. Which is why I ask what brands and where? I want people's experienced knowledge for input.

AkinaGod
07-14-2008, 08:45 AM
i only know a little shit
mustclime or zzyxx(Xxx?Xx?) know the fuck out of some shit.


But to the OP; I believe you are confusing coilovers with shitty ebay products.
coilovers have the strut and shock combined as one, and are usually mated to each other perfectly.

If you are doing touge you're probably going to encounter some bumpy roads and stuff like that so i wouldn't go anything too stiff.

The Megan Racing coilovers have a straight arm which corrects a lot of the bump steer issues you encounter with a lowered car, which would be bad if you were driving on a cliff.
http://www.ephatch.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46830
thats a picture of the older ones.

Tein flex is the same deal but without the straight arm.
Progress makes good coilovers also(just to clarify, coilovers include the strut except for the skunk2 coilover sleeves)

If you want to be competitive in touge or autox you'll have to do a lot more research though.

Hmmm. So the megan Racing Coilovers would be bad then? I was told that a lot of Tien products are for show. Why would that be? What I am looking for is adjustability for pretty much everything. I want to be able to fine tune. Koni's huh? Ill look into them.

I was doing some research and found mono-tube designed shocks that were said to be better. Any oppinions on this?

Zzyzx
07-14-2008, 08:59 AM
What do you mean by "track"? Drag race? or actual race tracks?

Couple of other questions.

1. What tires are you going to be running?
2. what ride height are you looking to run?
3. how do you prefer the car to handle? Loose or tight?

AkinaGod
07-14-2008, 09:25 AM
What do you mean by "track"? Drag race? or actual race tracks?

Race track.

Couple of other questions.

1. What tires are you going to be running?
Stock wheels but will be getting some Toyo Summer Stickies here shortly on a seperate set of wheels, same size as stock.

2. what ride height are you looking to run?
I will have to figure that out after I get the suspension kit and do some fine adjustments. I don't want to slam my car if that was the question. Whatever feels best.

3. how do you prefer the car to handle? Loose or tight?
Well that depends. I actually have gotten used to a loose back end and a tight front end. My rear end kicks out about 6 degrees around most corners. I guess I want a more tight feel for starters, though. WIll be experimenting with this as well. Sorry that was pretty vague I know. I want to minimize oversteer, lets put it that way.


I found this site here: http://www.koniracing.com/3011.html
They don't have the pricings on their site. I called them and they weren't there.
Some more from that site is here: http://www.koniracing.com/roadraceitems.html
http://www.koniracing.com/3012.html#length

I like this site because it gives great descriptions. Problem is I don't know how to read some of it. At the bottom (http://www.koniracing.com/3012.html#length) where it says valving code and spring rates, wat is that representing and telling you? And how do I know which part number would fit my car? This is basically the limit of my knowledge with suspension.

Now these don't have springs. Do I need to buy some or is this ok the way it is? Thanks for all the help guys. I know my cluelessness is a bit tedious but the help is much appreciated.

dichotomous
07-14-2008, 10:14 AM
with konis you actually have to cut your stock shock housings and you insert the koni cartridge in the housing. they adjust the rebound settings only, and to properly adjust height you should have the shafts shortened, though ground control springs have a height adjustable sleeve/perch and are used in combination with the koni shocks very frequently for our cars with good results.

Zzyzx
07-14-2008, 11:04 AM
Tire choice determines how soft of a suspension you can get away with, ride height plays a factor as well.

For a performance street car on summer tires, I'd be looking to run a suspension frequency of around 1.8 to 2.2 Hz. with it biased .1 to .2 hz higher on the rear. (greater difference = greater tendency to oversteer). run the Higher hz for gripper tires and Lower ride height, but ultimately you want to run as low of a Hz as you can get away with.


What does suspension frequency mean to you.... well with out knowing the corner weights... not a whole hell of a lot. As the best we can do is estimate Hz,based on other peoples recorded weights.

So, that gives you a spring rate range of between 260 and 440 on the nose... with rears being between about 420 to 650. (pounds per Inch)
I'd personally probably run it in the 2 Hz range, which gives you ~375 Lb/inch on the nose (~2.03hz) and 600 Lb/Inch on the rear (~2.10hz) Assuming a total drop of about 1 to 1.5 inches & a proper alignment.

That should give you plenty of suspension travel for those less then glass smooth mountain roads.

For dampers... Honestly in your case I'd run a set of Bilsteins. That way you know they are good dampers and the install is as easy as stock. If you want adjusters, then go Koni. The OTS Yellows will do fine for your application (no need to browse their race site, as most of that stuff doesn't fit... and frankly isn't designed for prolonged street use any way). Pick up the RSX Rears and the EP3 fronts.

mustclime
07-14-2008, 12:20 PM
Tire choice determines how soft of a suspension you can get away with, ride height plays a factor as well.

For a performance street car on summer tires, I'd be looking to run a suspension frequency of around 1.8 to 2.2 Hz. with it biased .1 to .2 hz higher on the rear. (greater difference = greater tendency to oversteer). run the Higher hz for gripper tires and Lower ride height, but ultimately you want to run as low of a Hz as you can get away with.


What does suspension frequency mean to you.... well with out knowing the corner weights... not a whole hell of a lot. As the best we can do is estimate Hz,based on other peoples recorded weights.

So, that gives you a spring rate range of between 260 and 440 on the nose... with rears being between about 420 to 650. (pounds per Inch)
I'd personally probably run it in the 2 Hz range, which gives you ~375 Lb/inch on the nose (~2.03hz) and 600 Lb/Inch on the rear (~2.10hz) Assuming a total drop of about 1 to 1.5 inches & a proper alignment.

That should give you plenty of suspension travel for those less then glass smooth mountain roads.

For dampers... Honestly in your case I'd run a set of Bilsteins. That way you know they are good dampers and the install is as easy as stock. If you want adjusters, then go Koni. The OTS Yellows will do fine for your application (no need to browse their race site, as most of that stuff doesn't fit... and frankly isn't designed for prolonged street use any way). Pick up the RSX Rears and the EP3 fronts.

fyi, if you are running GC sleeve kit, the 375 X 6 inch spring will not be long enough, you need the 8 inch spring......I found this out the hard way.:mfrown:

v1c10us
07-14-2008, 02:24 PM
Hmmm. So the megan Racing Coilovers would be bad then? I was told that a lot of Tien products are for show. Why would that be? What I am looking for is adjustability for pretty much everything. I want to be able to fine tune. Koni's huh? Ill look into them.

I was doing some research and found mono-tube designed shocks that were said to be better. Any oppinions on this?

no i meant that those would be good because they correct bump steer, and bump steer is bad especially if you are driving on the side of a cliff.

ep_hatcher_510
07-14-2008, 03:51 PM
scary

AkinaGod
07-15-2008, 10:07 AM
Hmmm. I think I got enough info now. I will check out all the brands listed and see what fits. Thanks for all the help.

dichotomous
07-15-2008, 10:27 AM
have fun with the modding, and be sure to swiss cheese and soak the rear lower shock mountings with LOTS of penetrating oil