building assistance.

[milob86]

Well after some members have told me to do some well thought out research as to what i want to do with my car. Im going build it. Now i need opinions, recommendations, and someone to point me in the right direction for the some connecting rods.

So far, my list for my build for my k20a2 is...
kpro
Injen cold air intake
T1R 70mm exhaust
Blueprint stage 3 cams
Supertech Dual Springs and Valve Retainers
Six Sigma Racing Header(Need to know if i have to cut that 3 inches or not)
Rbc Intake Manifold with Karcepts Adapter
550 RC Injectors or RDX Injectors, not sure
Brian Crower Stroker Kit
11.8:1 Pistons @ 89 mm bore
92 mm stroke camshaft
(Due to the fact that Brian Crower Stroker Kits require custom made connecting rods, im wondering if Brian Crower made connecting rods for the stroker kit. Need assistance with that.)
Hondata Intake Manifold
Supertech Valves

Would i need sleeves for that?
Anyway, after alot of thinking and researching thanks to ShadowMD and Talon for making me research what i really wanted, ive came down to this. I hope you guys give me advice and if im heading in the right direction. If it sounds good to go, i'll be able to purchase it and bring pics:msmile:

[AUTiger]

Dude, you must have some bank roll

[chunky]

Well after some members have told me to do some well thought out research as to what i want to do with my car. Im going build it. Now i need opinions, recommendations, and someone to point me in the right direction for the some connecting rods.

So far, my list for my build for my k20a2 is...
kpro
Injen cold air intake
T1R 70mm exhaust
Blueprint stage 3 cams
Supertech Dual Springs and Valve Retainers
Six Sigma Racing Header(Need to know if i have to cut that 3 inches or not)
Rbc Intake Manifold with Karcepts Adapter
550 RC Injectors or RDX Injectors, not sure
Brian Crower Stroker Kit
11.8:1 Pistons @ 89 mm bore
92 mm stroke camshaft
(Due to the fact that Brian Crower Stroker Kits require custom made connecting rods, im wondering if Brian Crower made connecting rods for the stroker kit. Need assistance with that.)
Hondata Intake Manifold
Supertech Valves

Would i need sleeves for that?
Anyway, after alot of thinking and researching thanks to ShadowMD and Talon for making me research what i really wanted, ive came down to this. I hope you guys give me advice and if im heading in the right direction. If it sounds good to go, i'll be able to purchase it and bring pics:msmile:

Honestly, if you're asking that kind of question, you should start out with a simple build. The kind of build you're talking about right now is not something that you can just slap together and have run. Even if you pay someone to build it, as the owner you still have a lot of responsibility as far as taking care of the motor goes.

I'd honestly suggest that you get a k24 block, use the stock bore/stroke (which will actually give you more displacement) and build it with rods & pistons. You can do that without needing to get the block sleeved and your power numbers will be higher. You'll also spend less money in the process.

When you're starting out, simpler is better.

[milob86]

Damn man, ive spent about a week or so going through k20a.org, clubrsx.com, and ephatch.com looking for what would work for a build. As for the money, i dont have money like that but i do earn enough. im not gonna buy everything from one day to the next, this might take about 8 months to a year. Chunky, thanks but i dont really like the big block engines. Im always up for critizism because its the way you learn things, but i have a REALLY GOOD mechanic/tuner and as for taking car of my car, i baby this thing more than i do with my wife sometimes.....SOMETIMES. ive asked ppl before and theyve said that you can still drive the car everyday and it'll run perfect ask long as you dont try to beat up the engine. I have my hopes up, i dont want them to get shot down.

[chunky]

Damn man, ive spent about a week or so going through k20a.org, clubrsx.com, and ephatch.com looking for what would work for a build. As for the money, i dont have money like that but i do earn enough. im not gonna buy everything from one day to the next, this might take about 8 months to a year. Chunky, thanks but i dont really like the big block engines. Im always up for critizism because its the way you learn things, but i have a REALLY GOOD mechanic/tuner and as for taking car of my car, i baby this thing more than i do with my wife sometimes.....SOMETIMES. ive asked ppl before and theyve said that you can still drive the car everyday and it'll run perfect ask long as you dont try to beat up the engine. I have my hopes up, i dont want them to get shot down.

You seem to be a little confused with what you want. You say you don't like the "big block" engines, yet you are trying to take a k20 and bring the displacement up to 2.3L? That essentially does away with any of the advantages of staying away from a big block/big stroke motor. You'll be much happier with a K24 2.4L that has a 1.535 rod/stroke than a K20 2.3L with a 1.477 rod/stroke. Rod/stroke ratios I calculated assume stock wrist pin positioning in the piston. The 2.4L will have better high rpm characteristics and less piston side loading, which will result in more power and longer life.

It doesn't really matter how much you baby your car. Without some experience with a highly modified motor, you won't know what signs to look for that will help you to catch something bad before expensive damage occurs. It's wiser to start with a simple build, learn the ropes, and then move on to a more expensive and exotic build. That way if you mess up on your first build, you haven't put a ridiculous amount of money in it, and you won't have a sour taste in your mouth with the whole tuning experience.

So you should strongly consider doing the following:

K24 block with stock bore, stock stroke
off the shelf forged pistons, 11.5:1 or higher compression
off the shelf forged rods
ACL race rod & main bearings
K20a2 or k24a2(06+) head
GOOD Cams
Valvesprings
RBC intake manifold
GOOD Header
550cc injectors (RDX won't support much more than 250hp)

That will give you the foundation for a solid build. It will also cost you a LOT less than having custom rods & pistons made to work with your 92mm crank and 89mm bore.

The thing with custom stuff is, if you don't have the information and ability to calculate out the parameters of the pistons, rods, block, and crank, you will be paying someone else to crunch those numbers and it WILL get expensive. You're going to need at the very least custom rods, which cost about double what an off the shelf rod would cost you. The 92mm crank itself runs well over 1g last I checked.

Long story short, go with a simple build. You'll make as much, if not more power than your exotic build, have more reliability, and spend way less.

[milob86]

the thing is, i want like 250 plus. i understand alot of ppl are ready to say things that it isnt possible. but im craving that power but dont want a turbo. and im thinking about nitrous if i ever take it to a track......

and lets say i dont do the stroker kit but get some pistons and rods.... would that still be ok? I say that cuz its easier to get parts for the a2. And i love the rsx engines.

[bchaney]

250 is definitely possible on a k24.

It's also less complicated than trying it with a k20.

You see this sticky on the k20a engine building forum?
http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=36856

[Lucid Moments]

I'm with Chunky. Keep it simple for your first build. I think a K24 can more than reach the goals you are looking for and do it for a lot less money than a K20.

With your original plan you would have to have sleeves and that that will add to the cost of the build significantly by the way.

[chunky]

the thing is, i want like 250 plus. i understand alot of ppl are ready to say things that it isnt possible. but im craving that power but dont want a turbo. and im thinking about nitrous if i ever take it to a track......

and lets say i dont do the stroker kit but get some pistons and rods.... would that still be ok? I say that cuz its easier to get parts for the a2. And i love the rsx engines.

You can get 300whp on a stock bore stock stroke k24. You'll need high compression and some serious cams, the right intake and exhaust manifolds to match the cams, and a good tune.

That or access to Chruch's dyno. :mtongue:

Anyhow, 250whp is pretty much a basic n/a k24 build. A fully attainable goal for a person's first k-series build.

[davisj3537]

I completely have to agree with the guys above. You are trying to stroke out a k20 when the k24 is already stroked. You say the rsx parts are easier to find but the parts on your list are astranomical in price and the rods have to be custom made. So essentially everything you are wanting in the k20 is already in the k24 and your wants are contradictory. Just as said above...follow Chunky's advice.

PS-definately stick with the rbc and SSR(they custom make it so you don't need to cut anything off it)

[Guardian]

Ignorance

[davisj3537]

Ignorance

No...just a newb. I was there one day too.

[milob86]

hey, sorry we're all not born with the knowledge of mechanics. my degree is in math not mechanics. anyway, Guardian your car is sick and it was the way i wanted to go before. but i think imma keep it simple now. thanks a bunch guys

[Guardian]

hey, sorry we're all not born with the knowledge of mechanics. my degree is in math not mechanics. anyway, Guardian your car is sick and it was the way i wanted to go before. but i think imma keep it simple now. thanks a bunch guys

Thanks, but wait a few more weeks

[milob86]

are you gonna tell us what you have in store or do we have to wait for it????:mtongue::mtongue:

[Guardian]

are you gonna tell us what you have in store or do we have to wait for it????:mtongue::mtongue:

500+whp 400+wtq

[milob86]

guardian, dude honestly im not gonna lie, ive been looking at your car for a while nd ive wanted to walk to the path of the bad ass sleeper, but one can only admire such greatness. ok imma stop kissing ass now but what im trying to say is that do you drive that everyday? is your car high maintenance? gimme some info. cuz if i can.....i will be following you...if you dont mind of course....:)

[milob86]

heres another good question. What are the pros and cons between the k20's and k24's ?

[Guardian]

guardian, dude honestly im not gonna lie, ive been looking at your car for a while nd ive wanted to walk to the path of the bad ass sleeper, but one can only admire such greatness. ok imma stop kissing ass now but what im trying to say is that do you drive that everyday? is your car high maintenance? gimme some info. cuz if i can.....i will be following you...if you dont mind of course....:)
lol i dont drive it every day but lately more then i would like. when i do some changes on it it takes a little bit to get all of the bugs worked out, then once they are ill do something else and have to deal with it again. after this im going to stop buying engine shit and work on suspension. but i would also like to get a bullhead gear set


heres another good question. What are the pros and cons between the k20's and k24's ?

the k24 makes more tq and makes peak power at a lower rpm. the high rev limit on a k20 is cool but it doesnt matter when you can make the same or more power at the lower rev limit of the k24. but if its built you can rev it high as well and make even more power. i take mine to 7700rpms and the power curve doesnt look like its going to fall off any time soon.

[shadowmd]

i like 2.0's cause u can the rev the crap out of them. and thats what i like. n/a, ur gonna make more power with the 2.4L. but u can't rev as high lol....call me a ricer, but thats what i like. i have a motor im building. its a spare a2 short block. just picked up a new (well used) a2 crank. gonna order eagle h-beam rods, cp pistons(most like 86mm) and then use my head(already has upgraded valve train), lsd and type-r final drive. should be revvin' to 9-9.5k and makin around 240whp....not sure what cams yet, but def. stage II (maybe blue print or brian crower). and it will def. be reliable (which is the most important to me)

[v1c10us]

get ahold of the mugen RR motor specs and mimic that to the tooth
it makes like 276 or something ridiculous and its a destroked k24.

[Guardian]

get ahold of the mugen RR motor specs and mimic that to the tooth
it makes like 276 or something ridiculous and its a destroked k24.

bhp... not very impressive

[shadowmd]

bhp... not very impressive

for a "factory" car thats "warrantied" its not that bad "mangel:

[Chazwick05]

for a "factory" car thats "warrantied" its not that bad "mangel:

true, but you probably have as much whp as that does in your current setup! :mbiggrin:

[shadowmd]

:mgrin: i will soon have a lot more :mangel: fully built a2 is already in the works! :mbiggrin:

[v1c10us]

the thing is, for it to make that much power and be warrantied as you said that means it must be reliable.
276 crank is probably around 250 at the wheels, thats damn good in my opinion.
the s2k makes 240 crank.

[milob86]

well since i seem to be heard more on this thread i'll keep posting here. Ok so im going for the k24a1 build. i think thats the motor to use right? ok so im aiming for 250 plus. I want some good torque and horsepower around 250-275, sounds reasonable to me. anyway. i need a list cuz i cant find any good parts for the motor. And as im searching through the sites, i dont know what year of the car or if its the EX or LX. I need to know that just to search for the parts. Well i going with:

Hondata Kpro
Injen Cold Air Intake
T1R Exhaust
SuperTech Dual Valve Springs w/Ti Retainers
Six Sigma Racing Header or Hytech Header. I would like some opinions.
RBC Intake Manifold w/ Karcepts Adaptor
RC injectors, how many cc's?
Supertech Nitride Valves
Hondata Intake Manifold Gasket

I would like to do pistons and rods but im not sure. i would like some more detail as to what else would go fine to acheive my goal.

According to chucky, i get the k20a2 head. So, do i get parts a2 parts for the head or k24a1 for the head? I know, its a noOb question.

Keep in mind its my everyday car so i need it to be reliable and still have that push i want. so now that my mods seem a little more down to earth, i wanna keep hearing some more ideas.... :)

[v1c10us]

I would go with a ferrea valvetrain or brian crower over supertech.

[kon]

You will want to upgrade both, the rods and pistons over the stock K24A1 ones. Try going for something like Wiseco or CP. CP Pistons are offered at 12:5-1 comp. off the shelf so thats easy. If you wanted to go with Wiseco you will only get 11.1-1 or 13.7-1 off the shelf (thats not to say that the 13.7 can't be preped down to 12.xx but that would take a little more time and $). Keep the bore at 87.5 with stock sleeves. As far as the head goes, it doesn't really matter what its for...valvetrain is the same for K24 and K20 (so long as its A2). The cams should be some stage 2 cams, as mentioned before. Don't forget to upgrade the oil pump while your at it.

[v1c10us]

You will want to upgrade both, the rods and pistons over the stock K24A1 ones. Try going for something like Wiseco or CP. CP Pistons are offered at 12:5-1 comp. off the shelf so thats easy. If you wanted to go with Wiseco you will only get 11.1-1 or 13.7-1 off the shelf (thats not to say that the 13.7 can't be preped down to 12.xx but that would take a little more time and $). Keep the bore at 87.5 with stock sleeves. As far as the head goes, it doesn't really matter what its for...valvetrain is the same for K24 and K20 (so long as its A2). The cams should be some stage 2 cams, as mentioned before. Don't forget to upgrade the oil pump while your at it.

Are you saying that he should get k20a2 springs for the k24?
I was under the impression you would want an a3 valvetrain for the a1 on account of the vtec...

[kon]

Are you saying that he should get k20a2 springs for the k24?
I was under the impression you would want an a3 valvetrain for the a1 on account of the vtec...

Honestly, the springs are the same for all the heads. I'm running a3 springs in my a2 head right now. But for simplicity sake I said get everything for the A2, thats if he is going to be running the A2 head (sounds like he is).

[v1c10us]

oh i didn't know he was running an a2 head.
I guess theres no need for the springs to be different, but I know that ferrea makes a3 springs and a2 springs and the a2 springs are stiffer on the exhaust side.

[milob86]

(sigh) im not understanding. Ok, k24a1 with a2 head. What parts do i need to build head and bottom of k24a1. Next where can i find them.

Hey, how does the k20z1 run? anyone got any pros and cons on that motor?

[kon]

(sigh) im not understanding. Ok, k24a1 with a2 head. What parts do i need to build head and bottom of k24a1. Next where can i find them.

Hey, how does the k20z1 run? anyone got any pros and cons on that motor?

Not that I'm opposed to helping, but your asking about a new motor everyother post lol. The Z1 is the same as the A2 as far as I'm concerned only difference is the cam profile. If you will be upgrading to aftermarket cams then the Z1 is the same as A2. I highly recomend joining K20a.org (if your not already on there) and searching through their data. I'm sure you'll find the info your looking for.

You can get all the parts you need through the vendors on this board. I recomend calling Eddie at True Honda, he'll hook you up.

[milob86]

Well it was probably my cousin. we use this same account. I want the k24a1 w/ a2 head. he.......he doesnt know what he wants.

Ok, i ask, to build the bottom of the k24a1, chunky told me to get some pistons at 11.5:1 compression or better with some rods. So i know what to do to that parts. As for the top, other than: Cams, springs, valves, retainers, would i need anything else? throttle body, throttle damper. or anything like that.

My cousin asks, whats a good compression for the k20a motor that can still allow him to use his car everyday. What pistons and rods are good? and if he uses blueprint stage 3 cams, can he still drive the car everyday?

[kon]

Well it was probably my cousin. we use this same account. I want the k24a1 w/ a2 head. he.......he doesnt know what he wants.

Ok, i ask, to build the bottom of the k24a1, chunky told me to get some pistons at 11.5:1 compression or better with some rods. So i know what to do to that parts. As for the top, other than: Cams, springs, valves, retainers, would i need anything else? throttle body, throttle damper. or anything like that.

My cousin asks, whats a good compression for the k20a motor that can still allow him to use his car everyday. What pistons and rods are good? and if he uses blueprint stage 3 cams, can he still drive the car everyday?

You can run the car daily with any cams (or any setup for that matter) if its tuned properly and your comfortable with it. I run 12.5 comp daily. The only problem with stage 3 cams is you will need to know how much cam advance you can do before piston to valve contact. The manufacturer will be able to advise.

You asked about supporting mods, I would recomend an RBC manifold with a 70mm throttle body and a 3" CAI. You should also look into a good header from SSR :mwink: along with a 70 to 75mm exhaust. I would also suggest looking into some solid mounts like avid or inovative.

[milob86]

Whats up guys, ok so im doing the k24a1 build. as i stated before im aiming for high 200's. Im still waiting for a mod list or something to help me out in getting to where i want to be. Um can anyone help me out in that direction? AND i want to know how high of compression will be good to get to my hp goal. (which, by the way, is about 275 and up.)

I was recently on K20a.org, and as i was searching for ppl with a k24a1 builds, i constantly overheard ppl saying that a k24a1 without the a2 head produced more power AND at the end was cheaper. True or false? Next since, im going with this build, and aiming for 275 and up(if i ever hit the 300's i'll scream like a little girl) i want to know where are the best places to get parts.

[kon]

mod list:
RBC mani (adaptor plate)
3"CAI
Hondata Intake manifold gasket
70mm BDL TB
A2 head (you can leave it stock, unported I mean)
IPS KME cams or Blue Print stage 2 cams or Brian Crower stage 2 cams
springs and retainers
K24 block
IB light rods (I beam rods)
CP 12.5:1 pistons in 87.5 bore
polish and balance the crank along with balancing your whole assembly (machine shop will do that)
K20a2 oil pump (already fits perfectly)
SSR 4-1 header or the tri y design
3" exhaust
Kpro (should be first on list) lol

You'll want a 6spd trans and a better clutch for sure. I use the exedy stage 2 and it works great. Mounts are going to be important as well so get something nice and stiff. This setup will net 250+ easy with a decent tune and will be driveable on a daily basis (for the most part).

Good luck

[milob86]

ok, im flipping through sites and i wanna know one thing for the transmissions. WTF is a final drive? and how does it work? and will it help on power for the car?

AND since i have 3 tabs on EPHATCH, CLUBRSX, and K20A, in k20a im reading that a "SICK" n/a motor is the k20a. With that motor to use toda parts and you can get some nice numbers without going lean as you would if you go with the a2. SO!, now i see that going n/a on an a2 is bad cuz i wouldnt wanna go lean and mess up my pistons. But still can some elaborate on this info?

CAN YOU EVEN BUILD A BAD ASS K20A MOTOR? i mean theyre talking about it can be driven everyday and be 250 plus. look if thats possible, im going with that. but it still seems hard to believe.

OH and before i forget, they're also saying that the a3 is hondas gift to the turbo world. TRUE OR FALSE???

(THE SUSPENSE TO KNOW WHAT PEOPLE WILL SAY KILLS ME) hehehe