Swift Sway Bars

[liquid cooled]

Anybody running these or know anything about them, I keep hearing that the progress bar is too much (maybe people just can drive it) and Im on tein flex which is fairly stiff suspension anyways. I dont know just looking for some other peoples expierences. I just saw these when browsing King Motorsports website.

[Windchaser]

Anybody running these or know anything about them, I keep hearing that the progress bar is too much (maybe people just can drive it) and Im on tein flex which is fairly stiff suspension anyways. I dont know just looking for some other peoples expierences. I just saw these when browsing King Motorsports website.

I am running or was running the 24mm Swift rear sway bar. It's a little pricey so . . . and I sold it on Craig's list like last week LOL.

[T_Virus]

you going back to stock jerry?

[Zzyzx]

Are you looking to tune the suspension or are you looking to attach more stickers to the side of the car?

[mustclime]

Are you looking to tune the suspension or are you looking to attach more stickers to the side of the car?

http://smiliesftw.com/x/pat.gif (http://smiliesftw.com)

[ep_hatcher_510]

Are you looking to tune the suspension or are you looking to attach more stickers to the side of the car?

:tehehe:

[liquid cooled]

I am running or was running the 24mm Swift rear sway bar. It's a little pricey so . . . and I sold it on Craig's list like last week LOL.

Well how was it while you had it, any fitment issues.


Are you looking to tune the suspension or are you looking to attach more stickers to the side of the car?

Dude more stickers for sure each ones like +5 whp, so ive got like 50 billion horsepower.

No looking to tune the suspension. I keep hearing the progress is too stiff, so im trying to find something that has some oversteer but not want to make you spin around. Im still wondering if its the bar or people driving like morons that causes the problem.

Musclime how do you like your cusco bar.

[Windchaser]

A 24mm sway bar is a 24mm sway bar. There will always be clearance issues with exhaust setups, which includes the design of the bar, the design of the exhaust, and the setup. It doesn't completely eliminate understeer if that is what you are asking, but it gives you enough decrease. If you prefer oversteer, just pick up a Hotchisk 27mm, which make you spin out if you are not careful.

[Windchaser]

you going back to stock jerry?

Yes, T I am going back to stock and plan on selling the car.

[Zzyzx]

Well how was it while you had it, any fitment issues.



Dude more stickers for sure each ones like +5 whp, so ive got like 50 billion horsepower.

No looking to tune the suspension. I keep hearing the progress is too stiff, so im trying to find something that has some oversteer but not want to make you spin around. Im still wondering if its the bar or people driving like morons that causes the problem.

Musclime how do you like your cusco bar.


Ok, 1st off. Tuning your suspension is nothing like tuning an engine.

With suspension's there are pro's and cons to every thing you do, And the best setup for your application can and probably will be different then the next person... Even if they started with the same setup.

So... 1st things 1st.

How is the car handling now, and what would you like it to do less or more of?

[ep_hatcher_510]

No looking to tune the suspension. I keep hearing the progress is too stiff, so im trying to find something that has some oversteer but not want to make you spin around. Im still wondering if its the bar or people driving like morons that causes the problem.

Musclime how do you like your cusco bar.

Is people driving/being like morons that causes the problems and they blame the car/part. I have the progress bar, not stiff at all, balances out car pretty well. As long as you know what you are doing a rear sway wont spin you out.

[classiccelica]

Ok, 1st off. Tuning your suspension is nothing like tuning an engine.

With suspension's there are pro's and cons to every thing you do, And the best setup for your application can and probably will be different then the next person... Even if they started with the same setup.

So... 1st things 1st.

How is the car handling now, and what would you like it to do less or more of?

Well my car understeers through the apex of a corner at any speed over 40mph. I would love to get a more neutral or a little oversteer feel out of it.

[Zzyzx]

Well my car understeers through the apex of a corner at any speed over 40mph. I would love to get a more neutral or a little oversteer feel out of it.

On the throttle (Accelerating) or off the throttle (decelerating) or neutral?

and do you have adjustable dampers? whats your alignment look like?

And by through the apex, do you mean in the 1st half (corner entry to apex) of the turn or 2nd half (Apex to corner exit)?

[classiccelica]

Throttle on understeering through the middle of the apex and exit. If I let off then it tucks in quite nicely but I don't want to have to do that every apex exit and through the middle. I do not have adjustable dampers just skunk2 pro coil s coil overs. Any recommendations for adjustable inserts for the struts. Alignment is good.

[Zzyzx]

Throttle on understeering through the middle of the apex and exit. If I let off then it tucks in quite nicely but I don't want to have to do that every apex exit and through the middle. I do not have adjustable dampers just skunk2 pro coil s coil overs. Any recommendations for adjustable inserts for the struts. Alignment is good.

Ok, couple of things to tweak 1st before we get to the car...

the 1st thing is to understand that throttle on understeer is 100% driver error. Remember, the car only has 100% traction available, and it can be used for turning, braking & accelerating as well as several combinations of those three.

So if you are in a turn and using 100% of your available traction for turning and then apply the throttle, that means that you now have less traction available for turning because its now being used for accelerating.

One of the better ways that I was taught in this regard is to imagine that the steering wheel controlled how much throttle you can apply at any time. The more away from center the wheel is turned, the less throttle you can apply with out causing understeer. This also applies to corner entry under braking (Known as Trail braking).

Basically if you are mid turn... you shouldn't be trying to accelerate.

2nd.. Learn to trail brake!

and 3rd, Late apex everything. This will prevent you from entering a turn to hot (which may very well be adding to your problem) and it will give you a longer acceleration zone coming out of said turn. not to mention its a good gauge as to if you are navigating the turn wrong... as in if you end up early apexing you know you screwed the turn up. Just as if you end up being pushed wide mid turn you know you entered the turn with too much speed.


Aside from that, for dampers, Soften the nose a bit & stiffen the rear a bit.

[classiccelica]

Ok, couple of things to tweak 1st before we get to the car...

the 1st thing is to understand that throttle on understeer is 100% driver error. Remember, the car only has 100% traction available, and it can be used for turning, braking & accelerating as well as several combinations of those three.

So if you are in a turn and using 100% of your available traction for turning and then apply the throttle, that means that you now have less traction available for turning because its now being used for accelerating.

One of the better ways that I was taught in this regard is to imagine that the steering wheel controlled how much throttle you can apply at any time. The more away from center the wheel is turned, the less throttle you can apply with out causing understeer. This also applies to corner entry under braking (Known as Trail braking).

Basically if you are mid turn... you shouldn't be trying to accelerate.

2nd.. Learn to trail brake!

and 3rd, Late apex everything. This will prevent you from entering a turn to hot (which may very well be adding to your problem) and it will give you a longer acceleration zone coming out of said turn. not to mention its a good gauge as to if you are navigating the turn wrong... as in if you end up early apexing you know you screwed the turn up. Just as if you end up being pushed wide mid turn you know you entered the turn with too much speed.


Aside from that, for dampers, Soften the nose a bit & stiffen the rear a bit.

Wow excellent information. I don't have adjustable dampers though. I would like to get some but I don't know what kind to get. Does someone make adjustable insert dampers so I don't have to get a full system, because I have the skunk2 pro coil s coil overs but they are only ride height adjustable.

[Zzyzx]

Adjustible that will fit? your pretty much looking at Koni or Tokico D-spec.

Ride quality the d-spec will give you more options, Handling the Koni's are the way to go.

(And verify that the D-spec fit with those slipons)

[classiccelica]

Now do they also have something for the rear. I really wish I went with something adjustable in the first place now. I would like better handling ride quality doesn't bother me too much.

[Windchaser]

Adjustible that will fit? your pretty much looking at Koni or Tokico D-spec.

Ride quality the d-spec will give you more options, Handling the Koni's are the way to go.

(And verify that the D-spec fit with those slipons)

Just wondering, which class do you compete in and which region? I am competing in SM and they are spanking me so bad LOL. It's fun getting spanked because I learn so much just watching those national guys drive their cars.

[ep_hatcher_510]

Throttle on understeering through the middle of the apex and exit. If I let off then it tucks in quite nicely but I don't want to have to do that every apex exit and through the middle. I do not have adjustable dampers just skunk2 pro coil s coil overs. Any recommendations for adjustable inserts for the struts. Alignment is good.

the pro s has a spring rate of 12k F and 8K R ? wont that contribute to some of that understeer?

[classiccelica]

Yeah I would think so they are pretty stiff up front but since there is like no weight out back compared to the front the back feels stiffer. I still want to put adjustable strut inserts in so I can adjust the damping.

[mustclime]

Musclime how do you like your cusco bar.

My 25mm solid cusco bar works well with my suspension setup. imo this is the best route you should take for suspension....

rims and tires then alinment kits f&r, then dampers,then suspension bushings, then springs and then swaybars..... You "tune" your suspension for the tires so thats where you should start....If you want to know my current suspension set up, its listed on my members ride page....I up my rear spring rates to 850lb on autoX weekends....:mangel:

[Zzyzx]

the pro s has a spring rate of 12k F and 8K R ? wont that contribute to some of that understeer?

spring rates alone really dont mean much, you need to take the motion ratio of the suspension as well as how much weight each end is holding in order to get a good view on how stiff or soft a suspension is. which gives us Suspension Frequencies measured in Hz

So with 12k(672 Lb/inch) that gives you about 2.6-2.7Hz on the nose and with 8k(448 Lb/inch) on the rear that gives you about 1.8 Hz...

So yes the spring rates are contributing to the understeer he's experiencing. But that doesn't change the fact that throttle on understeer is driver error.

classiccelica, your #1 priority should be to get rid of your OEM dampers. But in the mean time... Disconnect your front anti-roll bar. You've got more then enough roll resistance on the nose from the springs. And the increase in grip on the nose from getting rid of the anit-roll bar will greatly help not only reduce your throttle on understeer but understeer in general.

[classiccelica]

spring rates alone really dont mean much, you need to take the motion ratio of the suspension as well as how much weight each end is holding in order to get a good view on how stiff or soft a suspension is. which gives us Suspension Frequencies measured in Hz

So with 12k(672 Lb/inch) that gives you about 2.6-2.7Hz on the nose and with 8k(448 Lb/inch) on the rear that gives you about 1.8 Hz...

So yes the spring rates are contributing to the understeer he's experiencing. But that doesn't change the fact that throttle on understeer is driver error.

classiccelica, your #1 priority should be to get rid of your OEM dampers. But in the mean time... Disconnect your front anti-roll bar. You've got more then enough roll resistance on the nose from the springs. And the increase in grip on the nose from getting rid of the anit-roll bar will greatly help not only reduce your throttle on understeer but understeer in general.


I have the dampers that come with the skunk2 pro s suspension, but they are not adjustable. So disconnecting the front bar wont make it handle like crap on the road will it? Will I need to get used to it?

[mustclime]

I have the dampers that come with the skunk2 pro s suspension, but they are not adjustable. So disconnecting the front bar wont make it handle like crap on the road will it? Will I need to get used to it?

It will help traction but body roll will increase....If I had the pro s, I would get some rear koni's for a rsx(better valving) and some springs, and coilover sleeves from GC Or hipercoyle...bother sell all the parts sepert....with the gc kit you will need the koni adaptor kit.....the rear springs I would get would be 850-950lbs depending on how much movement you want in the tail.

[Zzyzx]

I have the dampers that come with the skunk2 pro s suspension, but they are not adjustable. So disconnecting the front bar wont make it handle like crap on the road will it? Will I need to get used to it?

The car may roll a bit more, and its going to be more responsive to throttle inputs once in the turn. So you'll need to be smoother with your throttle, and you may need to add in a bit more camber on the nose.

[classiccelica]

Ok, well I looked at the koni inserts and they look like a pain in the arse to do. Guess I am back at square one with the dampers.

[tallblondkid]

Ok, well I looked at the koni inserts and they look like a pain in the arse to do. Guess I am back at square one with the dampers.

iv been talking alot with musty and zzyzx even more.... after all the research and talking to them, iv pretty much got my suspension setup thought out, but like must said earlier, im going to do it piece by piece to test and fine tune each aspect instead of getting everything and putting it on at once... and im leaning towards the rsx Konis and GC as well, with 450 f and 700 r spring rates

zzyzx... after all the reading and search button usage, i cant believe you are not tired of repeating yourself everyday.

ps, still waiting on a PM response over at crsx, lol

[EP3_U_SEE]

got any picss/???

[frm_808]

The car may roll a bit more, and its going to be more responsive to throttle inputs once in the turn. So you'll need to be smoother with your throttle, and you may need to add in a bit more camber on the nose.

sorry but isnt ur SN an exit off of the i 15 in cali?

[classiccelica]

Yeah I was thinking of putting my stock struts on and konifying them and ground controls. I really don't like not being able to adjust the damn dampers.

[Zzyzx]

Yeah I was thinking of putting my stock struts on and konifying them and ground controls. I really don't like not being able to adjust the damn dampers.

Depends on the damper. You're probably fine with what came with your kit, you just need to tune other things to get what you want out of the car. And at least you can remove improper damper tuning as any sort of issue with the car. Work with what you have.