k24a2 what whp will i be making

[wishbear]

k24a1 block with blue print H beam rods for boost
9:0:1 CP pistons
stock k20a2 head until i get my rbc and toda c cams with retainers
k pro
6speed tranny

[wishbear]

oh yea i would be running 3inch cai
jrrh
2"1/2 midpipe to stock cat

[Tnhatch03]

what turbo kit?

[mustclime]

no boost.....170's.....thats what the k24a1's make and the compression is about the same as your rig.

[bchaney]

I heard more like 200 with all bolt-ons and an a2 head.

He's got cams too.

[mustclime]

I heard more like 200 with all bolt-ons and an a2 head.

He's got cams too.

drop the compression, loose the hp.......

[davisj3537]

Why are you running turbo pistons with a RH and cams instead of boost?

[bchaney]

drop the compression, loose the hp.......

0.6 CR = 30whp?

[mustclime]

0.6 CR = 30whp?

k20a2 = 11 to 1
k24a2 = 10.5 to 1

his set up = 9 to 1

referance for k motors

http://www.ephatch.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43031

fyi, reving k24's is not the smartest thing to do, at 7500 rpm a k24 has the same piston speed and a k20a2 at 9000 rpm because of the longer stroke. I have had more than a couple tell me I was full of it but in the end they blow....:mwink:

[bchaney]

k24a1 = 9.6 to 1
his = 9.0 to 1

Both with full bolt-ons and a2 head would be 30whp difference?

Just wanted to make sure because I might be going the a1 route.

[Lucid Moments]

fyi, reving k24's is not the smartest thing to do, at 7500 rpm a k24 has the same piston speed and a k20a2 at 9000 rpm because of the longer stroke. I have had more than a couple tell me I was full of it but in the end they blow....:mwink:

You are full of it:mredface::mbiggrin::tehehyper:

[mustclime]

k24a1 = 9.6 to 1
his = 9.0 to 1

Both with full bolt-ons and a2 head would be 30whp difference?

Just wanted to make sure because I might be going the a1 route.

Depends on your red line......the k24a1 head flows just about as well as a k20a1 head. Like I said, reving the piss out of a k24 motor is not the best idea.....If you have a k24a1 head already, I would toss some cams in that and call it a day if you are going na......

fyi, most of those guys making 200+ whp with k24a1 blocks and k20a2 heads are red lined at around 8500 to 9000 rpm.....those motors do not last very long. They will go for a while, but in the end they blow. :tehehyper:

[mustclime]

You are full of it:mredface::mbiggrin::tehehyper:

:mredface::mredface::mredface:

[bchaney]

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showpost.php?p=493307&postcount=242

k24a1 block & internals, k20a2 head, DCRH
222whp @ ~7.4k

[clujalolo]

i would say around 200ish, u gotta remember, this aint the K20a3, k24's respond VERY well to bolt ons. they can gain whp pretty easily unlike the k20a3

[Tnhatch03]

They will go for a while, but in the end they blow. :tehehyper:

this holds true for anything other than stock. haha.

[bchaney]

IMO, stock blows. :mbiggrin:

[Chazwick05]

tommy's k24a1 with stage I skunk2 cams, dcrh, 2.5" exhaust, stock axleback and an sri made 188 whp and 164 wtq with a 7k redline.

[mustclime]

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showpost.php?p=493307&postcount=242

k24a1 block & internals, k20a2 head, DCRH
222whp @ ~7.4k

list of mods.....

Car: 92 Civic Hatch
Motor: K24A1 Block(stock internals), Type-S head
Header: DC Sports
Cams: Type-S intake and TSX Exhaust cam
Intake: PRB with 66 mm BDL TB
exhaust: 2.5
Tranny: type r tranny w/ 4.7 final drive, Honda LSD
Misc Mods: Hondata IMG, ETD Racing water pump block off plate and Mezeire electric water pump
Power: 222 hp 177 torque

Tuned by Jim Helbing @ Motovation Motorsports in Birmingham, AL
........................

Note the little things like the the electric water pump, 66mm BDL tb, prb manie and tsx exhaust cam. This car also does not have ac for sure....these are not basic boltons imo.....

I stick by my number, basic bolt ons in a ep3, 170's......Tsx(k24a2) motors with 10.5 to one compression ratios make high 170's to low 180's with basic boltons in ep3's.:mwink:

[bchaney]

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showpost.php?p=352126&postcount=176

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showpost.php?p=318974&postcount=144

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showpost.php?p=38587&postcount=21

Someone tell me I'm not crazy.

I guess I'll just have to build one and prove you wrong :mbiggrin:

[mustclime]

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showpost.php?p=352126&postcount=176

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showpost.php?p=318974&postcount=144

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showpost.php?p=38587&postcount=21

Someone tell me I'm not crazy.

I guess I'll just have to build one and prove you wrong :mbiggrin:

Go for it......2 things....look at the dyno sheets on the first and 3rd....If you can not see the the problem, well I do not know what to say. On the second one, 8300 rpm:mrolleyes:......thats about 10200 rpm in piston speed of a k20a2. Tell you what, do that dd and please remember to post un the motor gore shots for us car pervs....I love looking at holes in eginen blocks:tehehe:


Something you should also look at, none of these sheets you have posted are complete........How do I know? Where are the injectors? No way you are doing 230 whp with 310 cc injectors.....310cc's go 100% at around 210 to 215 whp......but what do I know....:mangel:

[Deadphishy]

I'd say 200whp sounds about right. With the clearance 9/1 will give you, you can get some crazy high lift cams, and make some more power.

I'm shooting for 220-230whp with my 11.7/1 compression k24a1, with a RBB head. I know 230 is a bit high for the smaller ports of the RBB but we will see.

[Lucid Moments]

Go for it......2 things....look at the dyno sheets on the first and 3rd....If you can not see the the problem, well I do not know what to say. On the second one, 8300 rpm:mrolleyes:......thats about 10200 rpm in piston speed of a k20a2. Tell you what, do that dd and please remember to post un the motor gore shots for us car pervs....I love looking at holes in eginen blocks:tehehe:


Something you should also look at, none of these sheets you have posted are complete........How do I know? Where are the injectors? No way you are doing 230 whp with 310 cc injectors.....310cc's go 100% at around 210 to 215 whp......but what do I know....:mangel:



Musty, you know its all love man, but you are just wrong on the RPM issue. I had a K24A2 with stock pistons and rods. I spun it up to 8500 RPMs. It was my daily driver for a while. Yes, it did blow eventually but that was because of a bad spark plug, nothing to do with piston speed. The pistons were fine, the rods were fine, the bearings were fine, the crank was fine. I've seen the math before. I know the numbers are extreme, but if stock rods and pistons can handle it are you telling me that forged pistons and rods can't?

[bchaney]

The dynos first two dynos are in mph not rpm (unless your doing a conversion).

I think you're getting the wrong idea from my responses. I'm just trying to get an idea of what this setup would make because I have a similar build in mind. My purpose isn't to prove you wrong, I've just found other info that suggests bigger numbers.

I don't see a problem in the dyno sheets, could you tell me what it is?

Just trying to learn. Thanks for the help.

[!@#$%]

Yeah, the X axis on those dynos are in mph.

[wishbear]

im going to run a custom turbo kit made by Raceline USA where i work at

[davisj3537]

im going to run a custom turbo kit made by Raceline USA where i work at

Then why the hell are you getting a JRRH and toda cams? A turbo doesn't mix and match with cams and the turbo manifold replaces the header completely...are you sure you know what you are doing?


oh yea i would be running 3inch cai
jrrh
2"1/2 midpipe to stock cat

The JRRH replaces the cat...Maybe just a few typos of yours but it sounds like you have not put the puzzle peices together and now are just naming parts.

[EP3Casas]

if u want to make those numbers just boost..safer and cheaper..imo

[mustclime]

Musty, you know its all love man, but you are just wrong on the RPM issue. I had a K24A2 with stock pistons and rods. I spun it up to 8500 RPMs. It was my daily driver for a while. Yes, it did blow eventually but that was because of a bad spark plug, nothing to do with piston speed. The pistons were fine, the rods were fine, the bearings were fine, the crank was fine. I've seen the math before. I know the numbers are extreme, but if stock rods and pistons can handle it are you telling me that forged pistons and rods can't?

Hay, its cool. I have always loved your car and the fact you have dumped huge cash in it to make it a road course car. Here is the thing, imo your motor never made any sence to me. Your hp numbers were always low. Sure it could have been the dyno but anyone that has a a k24a2 with ips boost cams, custom large tube race header, 3 inch cat back with a blower pumping 9psi boost and has trouble making 290 whp at 8500 rpm has issues. You should have been way over 300 whp imo. I would have loved to have seen a read on your oil after you motor went. My guess is you were getting blow by on your rings at high rpm and this was bleeding off hp and killing your mixture. One of the problems with really high pistion speeds is you can loose your ring seal as the pistions fly up and down the cyclinder and this causes mixture changes that result in knock( or high heat that will burn off the weld on your electrode on your spark plug) that kills the motor. Look at the pistion design of the motor in the first gen s2000 and compare it to the tsx motor pistons.....Oh well, this is just the interweds anyway and I am just some old coot that does not know what he is talking about. Prove me wrong kids, but do it with a motor that has survived for 50,000 miles of trips to 8500 rpm.........:mangel:

[mustclime]

The dynos first two dynos are in mph not rpm (unless your doing a conversion).

I think you're getting the wrong idea from my responses. I'm just trying to get an idea of what this setup would make because I have a similar build in mind. My purpose isn't to prove you wrong, I've just found other info that suggests bigger numbers.

I don't see a problem in the dyno sheets, could you tell me what it is?

Just trying to learn. Thanks for the help.

Hey, Its cool, heres the my deal. I just try to be real with these "what will I make" threads. When honda says their k20a2 motor makes 200 hp at the crank and a dyno says the motor makes 178 hp at the wheels, those are real numbers. Remember, we are talking about a 2000 cc motor with a 8000rpm read line and 11 to 1 compression. Now take a 2400 cc motor with 1.5 points less compression and a lower red line ( my problem is I want my cars to hold up) and I tell you that you will make 170's....Thats around 200hp at the crank and about 40 more than stock for a k24a1.............Hope that explains my guess-ta-mit.

[Lucid Moments]

Hay, its cool. I have always loved your car and the fact you have dumped huge cash in it to make it a road course car. Here is the thing, imo your motor never made any sence to me. Your hp numbers were always low. Sure it could have been the dyno but anyone that has a a k24a2 with ips boost cams, custom large tube race header, 3 inch cat back with a blower pumping 9psi boost and has trouble making 290 whp at 8500 rpm has issues. You should have been way over 300 whp imo. I would have loved to have seen a read on your oil after you motor went. My guess is you were getting blow by on your rings at high rpm and this was bleeding off hp and killing your mixture. One of the problems with really high pistion speeds is you can loose your ring seal as the pistions fly up and down the cyclinder and this causes mixture changes that result in knock( or high heat that will burn off the weld on your electrode on your spark plug) that kills the motor. Look at the pistion design of the motor in the first gen s2000 and compare it to the tsx motor pistons.....Oh well, this is just the interweds anyway and I am just some old coot that does not know what he is talking about. Prove me wrong kids, but do it with a motor that has survived for 50,000 miles of trips to 8500 rpm.........:mangel:

You do gotta love the internet don't you. The way I learn stuff is by debating (arguing) with people about it.

I see what you are saying about the rings, and anything is possible, but its not like I was seeing a decrease in power as the RPMs went up that would indicate a problem at high RPMs. Instead the power was fairly linear and IIRC was still increasing but I wasn't comfortable with any higher revs.

I was going to start sending my oil to Blackstone. As a matter of fact I had gotten a sample bottle and was going to send it to them after I got back from the track where my motor blew. I still plan on sending it to them once I have this new motor broken it and we'll see what we see.

[mustclime]

You do gotta love the internet don't you. The way I learn stuff is by debating (arguing) with people about it.

I see what you are saying about the rings, and anything is possible, but its not like I was seeing a decrease in power as the RPMs went up that would indicate a problem at high RPMs. Instead the power was fairly linear and IIRC was still increasing but I wasn't comfortable with any higher revs.

I was going to start sending my oil to Blackstone. As a matter of fact I had gotten a sample bottle and was going to send it to them after I got back from the track where my motor blew. I still plan on sending it to them once I have this new motor broken it and we'll see what we see.

From what I have seen, ring blow by can be seen as a sharp line on a dyno chart where ting go wrong or a slow bleed off of hp that will look like the motor is leveling out on the chart. To properly catch it you kinda need a o2 sensor on each cyclinder exhaust port and you can compare o2 readings to each injector out put. This not something your every day tuner will catch. Ring float can happen in both directions, that can make things even harder to figure out. This is one of the reasons I am not a huge fan of high reving motors, the higher the revs, the more sh*t that can go wrong.

Here is a little fact for you, the way they get away from ring float in a F1 motor that will rev to 19,000 rpm is the motors are assambled with the parts heated to 200-400 degrees F. You can not turn over a room temp F1 motor, they are fused togather, you have to pump in heated oil and coolent to get the block to expand enough that the pistions will move in the cyclinders.:meek:

[wishbear]

im running cams and jrrh because im still piecing my turbo together im just doing it slowly. im not in a rush to get the turbo running ill be doing na for a while

[davisj3537]

im running cams and jrrh because im still piecing my turbo together im just doing it slowly. im not in a rush to get the turbo running ill be doing na for a while

Oh ok. Sounds good buddy.

[shadowmd]

Depends on your red line......the k24a1 head flows just about as well as a k20a1 head


lol u said k20a1 j/p :mangel:

[mustclime]

lol u said k20a1 j/p :mangel:

.on a flow beanch the k20a2 head flows about the same as a k24a1 head, you ndds different cams and valves to take advantage of this though.

[wishbear]

i still didnt get a clear answer how much whp will i be making with all those stuff

[Lucid Moments]

i still didnt get a clear answer how much whp will i be making with all those stuff

You will never know until you build it and see. There are too many variables. Sure somebody somewhere may have done the exact same thing, but then again they may not have.

[mustclime]

k24a1 block with blue print H beam rods for boost
9:0:1 CP pistons
stock k20a2 head until i get my rbc and toda c cams with retainers
k pro
6speed tranny


i still didnt get a clear answer how much whp will i be making with all those stuff

Ok, again....imo, the k20a2 makes 200 crank hp with a 8000 rpm red line, 11 to 1 compression ratio. The same motor will put out 178 ish hp to the wheels. You do not have a list of bolt ons but I will assume that you are smart enough to get a 3" cai and rh, you will get around to 200 with a 8000(no valve springs listed) red line but It is my guess that you are going to be getting close to 100% on the 310cc injectors( again, not listed of what you have, the ep3 has 270cc and those go 100% at about 180hp)....If you step up to 440cc injectors and a bored TB, 210-215....

[davisj3537]

I vote 210whp if you have RH/E/CAI to go along with those cams

[wishbear]

well see how i how much i would be making