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02ep3driver
08-24-2008, 05:47 PM
whats the best rear sway bar for my 02 ep3?

mustclime
08-24-2008, 05:55 PM
more info needed.......what are your plans for the car and what is your budget?

Drew1d
08-24-2008, 07:17 PM
JDM ITR, CTR, or Acura RSX type S.
They will fit well, they look stock, and you'll feel the difference in the steering. And quite inexpensive. (You may need new endlinks too. Depending what you get, they can be just as expensive.)

Like Musty said, it really depends what you want. For me, I just want a less Understeer, I don't really need a lot of oversteer.

02ep3driver
08-24-2008, 07:19 PM
right now its my daily driver, but i want to turn it into a car that is going to handle great. i just picked up a set of coilovers. now i was thinkin about getting an aftermarket rear sway bar. im not even sure how much they cost. could you give me a price of a good one, and a price of the best one?

Drew1d
08-24-2008, 07:28 PM
right now its my daily driver, but i want to turn it into a car that is going to handle great. i just picked up a set of coilovers. now i was thinkin about getting an aftermarket rear sway bar. im not even sure how much they cost. could you give me a price of a good one, and a price of the best one?

The coilovers are going to be different then the stock spring rates. (Perhaps measured in Pounds per Inch.) This is already going to affect how the car steers. After they are installed, then decide on a rear sway depending how much Under/Over steer you want.

The bars I mentioned are probably around $100 with bushings and shipping and endlinks could range from $60-$150 depending how well they are made. (made better, less rattle.) You could spend a lot more for a name brand rear sway, I'm sure around $250. (Which may come with endlinks.)

Also, You may want to take off the front sway instead of changing the rear bar. How stiff do you want the suspension to be?

02ep3driver
08-24-2008, 07:36 PM
i want it to be real stiff. i think the coilovers i got are like a 10k in front and 12 in back or something like that. i have them on and i want my car to be stiffer so then what would you suggest? and where would i find it?

Drew1d
08-24-2008, 07:55 PM
i want it to be real stiff. i think the coilovers i got are like a 10k in front and 12 in back or something like that. i have them on and i want my car to be stiffer so then what would you suggest? and where would i find it?

Umm, once again, my suggestion is that you put the coilovers on first, THEN, decide on a rear sway. :mredface:

A car set up like that is going to understeer even more than normal,

Stock EP3: Spring Rate: (248 Front/440 Rear)

What your saying your new coilovers will be like 558 front/670 rear.
I would probably still go with an ITR or type S rear bar and ALSO remove the front.

FYI, Those springs are going to make a very stiff ride.

02ep3driver
08-25-2008, 01:17 AM
i know that the ride is going to be stiff. the coilovers are already on my car. i like the ride. will the itr or type s sway bar create more oversteer? and where would i go about looking for one? thanks.

ep_hatcher_510
08-25-2008, 03:10 AM
A stiff ride does NOT mean you will handle better. Yes, a larger sway in the rear will create more oversteer.

Zzyzx
08-25-2008, 08:35 AM
i want it to be real stiff. i think the coilovers i got are like a 10k in front and 12 in back or something like that. i have them on and i want my car to be stiffer so then what would you suggest? and where would i find it?

Stiff = poor handling over any thing but glass smooth roads.


How is the car handling now? Do you find it understeering to much? oversteering?

Tell us how you perceive the car handling now and we can give you better information on what may be tweaked in order for it to perform better for you.

02ep3driver
08-25-2008, 12:43 PM
the ride now is alot better, with much less understeer with a little oversteer. i guess i misunderstood about the handling. i want to set up my car so that it will handle as good as it can.

Drew1d
08-25-2008, 01:14 PM
i want to set up my car so that it will handle as good as it can.

That means different things to different people.

icarus.na
08-25-2008, 01:15 PM
go with the CTR or ITR 22mm rear sway.

the rsx-s DC5 21mm rear sway is easier to find though.

while you're at it upgrade the bushings and endlinks too.

tallblondkid
08-25-2008, 01:34 PM
That means different things to different people.

Exactly!

you have to figure out what you want more of from where it is now...you are getting much less understeer and a little more oversteer? do you want even less understeer? and even more oversteer? once you figure it out, then we can better help you decide...

also, what "coilovers" are you on now? and what tires? and hows your alignment? these are all crucial aspects of the cars handling, and can also cause the results of any other handling mod to fluctuate.

ep_hatcher_510
08-25-2008, 02:15 PM
If you have not done so, a good performance alignment will be a better start then the sway bar.

02ep3driver
08-25-2008, 04:55 PM
i just put on D2 coilovers. im getting dunlop direzza tires put on tomorrow. my car is also getting aligned after the tires are put on. i want even less understeer than now. where would i find a ctr sway bar? or would there be a better option?

ep_hatcher_510
08-25-2008, 05:29 PM
ASR 32mm swaybar, bye bye understeer.:tehehyper:

http://a85.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/54/l_e32885e43701b66f16495ffe34e95b24.jpg

tallblondkid
08-25-2008, 08:11 PM
i just put on D2 coilovers. im getting dunlop direzza tires put on tomorrow. my car is also getting aligned after the tires are put on. i want even less understeer than now. where would i find a ctr sway bar? or would there be a better option?

the CTR 22mm could be a good choice, but i would first wait til you get the tires on and align the car. and try a slightly more aggressive alignment. Maybe like -1.5-2.0 in the front and -.5-1.0 in the rear if its a daily driven. if tracked maybe some more front neg camber and maybe a little toe out.

What is the purpose of the car? daily driven? ever auto-xed? ever tracked?

02ep3driver
08-26-2008, 09:01 AM
right now its a daily driver. thats how its prolly going to stay, but i want to enter some autox events. i dont want a straight up track car but i dont want just a daily driver either.

02ep3driver
08-26-2008, 09:02 AM
are you happy with how your car handles with that? and where did you pick that up?




ASR 32mm swaybar, bye bye understeer.:tehehyper:

http://a85.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/54/l_e32885e43701b66f16495ffe34e95b24.jpg

mustclime
08-26-2008, 09:09 AM
this thread is a fail in so many ways........:mcry:

MugsyTheGr8
08-26-2008, 09:22 AM
my honest opinion: read way more before you throw anymore money at your car. suspension is not like engine modding, parts dont equal performance.

tallblondkid
08-26-2008, 11:23 AM
are you happy with how your car handles with that? and where did you pick that up?

That isnt his car, he just got a picture of it... dont be set on upgrading just anything or everything... as said numerous times in this thread, there is no such thing as a generally good or better suspension mod.... modding the suspension takes alot of testing and tuning on your own, not reading up on certain parts, but rather reading up on how different suspension variables can change different aspects of handling. My first suggestion is to head of to clubrsx and read alot of the stickies there and familiarize yourself with the chassis and suspension modding variables as much as possible. and you will realize you will get to a point where you wont have questions like "what is the best rear sway bar?" because questions like that have no answer.

I dont know much about the d2 coilovers or what kind of dampers they use or if there are even dyno graphs for them, but how much lower would you estimate your car is now from stock?

Also, as a test and tune, and to prevent wasted money, try taking off the front sway bar and see how it affects understeer/oversteer.... BUT FIRST, get those tires on, and align it aggressively and then see how it feels..




Musty, the thread isnt fail at all... he just needs to understand that there is no such thing as a better suspension mod, i guess we will know hes got it when he stops asking, lol

ep_hatcher_510
08-26-2008, 11:26 AM
are you happy with how your car handles with that? and where did you pick that up?

oo god no way am i getting that :mbiggrin: is a bit too much.

Ep3T0n3y
08-26-2008, 12:07 PM
If i could do it again id buy the cusco 25mm.
I have the ctr sway, and its wayyy better than stock, but.... idk, i guess im just a go big or go home kinda guy.

moso
08-26-2008, 01:43 PM
my progress one is good enough for me when it comes to rear it is the 24mm not the 22 though and as far as front ima get the ctr sway but i am really confused on what coilovers to get for a aggressive street set up

Drew1d
08-26-2008, 01:54 PM
ASR 32mm swaybar, bye bye understeer.:tehehyper:

http://a85.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/54/l_e32885e43701b66f16495ffe34e95b24.jpg

Where's the muffler?

moso
08-26-2008, 02:18 PM
probably under axle lol

tallblondkid
08-26-2008, 02:44 PM
my progress one is good enough for me when it comes to rear it is the 24mm not the 22 though and as far as front ima get the ctr sway but i am really confused on what coilovers to get for a aggressive street set up

that 24 you have is adjustable, correct?

and i believe the CTR front sway is the same as our stock one. could be wrong tho

bdooley
08-26-2008, 02:51 PM
Where's the muffler?
if you look in the picture its not connected since you see the exhaust flange

ep_hatcher_510
08-26-2008, 03:41 PM
probably under axle lol

what is under axle exactly? if it is what I'm thinking it is, won't the pipe be scraping a lot?

moso
08-26-2008, 04:53 PM
the progress is not really adjustable from the endlink just from the mount and i dont consider that adjustable unless its from the endlinks and under axle is when it goes under the rear sway bar under the tie bar and ya it might scrape a lot it matters on the persons driving and i think the ctr front sway is thicker if im not mistaking

tallblondkid
08-26-2008, 05:07 PM
the progress is not really adjustable from the endlink just from the mount and i dont consider that adjustable unless its from the endlinks and under axle is when it goes under the rear sway bar under the tie bar and ya it might scrape a lot it matters on the persons driving and i think the ctr front sway is thicker if im not mistaking

i was under the impression that the adjustable progress had 2 different holes on each side for endlinks to make it tighter or looser

moso
08-26-2008, 05:11 PM
no i wish but it doesnt =/ i mean for the price u pay for it its good cuz u even get the tie bar which i think looks awesome with some junk2 lca like my set up :tehehyper: but for the front im still thinking on what sway to get maybe progress or ctr i dunno well c once im done with the front end of my car =]

ep_hatcher_510
08-26-2008, 08:40 PM
i was under the impression that the adjustable progress had 2 different holes on each side for endlinks to make it tighter or looser

the newer 24mm bar is.

moso
08-26-2008, 10:39 PM
really? if only i knew its ok dis ones not datbad

EVOKIN
08-26-2008, 11:36 PM
ASR 32mm swaybar, bye bye understeer.:tehehyper:

http://a85.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/54/l_e32885e43701b66f16495ffe34e95b24.jpg
That's as close to a solid axle as you can get with an independent suspension.

lilflx
08-27-2008, 10:46 AM
im thinking of getting the cusco 25mm any thoughts on that one?? ,, looking for lapping purpose and spirited daily driving.

tallblondkid
08-27-2008, 11:44 AM
im thinking of getting the cusco 25mm any thoughts on that one?? ,, looking for lapping purpose and spirited daily driving.

did you happen to read through this thread at all?

Drew1d
08-27-2008, 11:51 AM
There are many threads devoted to car handling. And, there are just as many different opinions.

Let's start with, there is a difference between handling and steering. I always thought (perhaps syntax is wrong) handling is the grip the car has to the road, and steering determines whether the front or rear break loose first. (Or which keeps it's hold, if you're a glass half full type of person)

For maximum handling, stiffer springs( to keep the car more level) + grippy tires (Possibly wider) + lower center of gravity will keep the cars hold on the ground. (This is on clean, dry, level pavement.)

Steeringwise, the ratio of roll on the front to back will determine which grip gives up first. This is changed by the Spring rate and sway bars. Imagine this if you will,

-As you enter a LEFT turn, the FRONT of the car (which has most of the weight and softest springs) rolls, lifting the LEFT hand side into the air and unevenly putting weight on the RIGHT side.

The REAR of the car which has less weight AND much stiffer springs begins to roll also, lifting the left hand side BUT NOT NEARLY AS MUCH. To relieve some of this contortion the rear tires skip to the RIGHT and the car begins a slight fishtail until the springs equalize strain (so a closer weight and grip is on the left and right) the turn ends and you putter along the way. (Oversteer)

The original poster put 10k(front) 12k(rear) springs on their car. The front roll resistance has increased 200% and the rear maybe only 50%.

Let's take that same left hand turn with these new springs,

- As you turn HARD LEFT the rear will roll more than the front, and the front tires skip to equalize the strain and you lose all grip/steering in the front. Then you go careening into the woods nose first. (Understeer)

Sway bars work in much the same way by increasing it's resistance to the roll. (Either front or back) The Original poster could probably correct some of that understeer by putting a larger bar and the rear, and a smaller or NO bar in the front.

So logically by this argument, you'd put the largest bar with the stiffest springs on the back right? Well, no. Because it's just as easy to fishtail and go ass first into the woods.

So when anyone asks "What is the best rear sway bar I can get?" it really depends on the setup of the car, there is no blanket answer.

For me, I have stock springs, and the ITR 21mm (or 22mm I don't remember) rear sway. This give me just a little more roll resistance in the rear, and just the right amount of oversteer. There are people on here who can drive a car with more oversteer around a corner faster than me, hands down. And if you want that type of performance I would suggest asking them. (And be VERY specific on what you have and what you want. Because like I said, ANY part for the suspension depends on other parts.) But I HIGHLY doubt most people want that type of performance, lets say.....in snow.

Good luck to all.

(And before some flame me on the GROSS inaccuracy I made on tire grip, slip angle, suspension frequency, roll center and so on... I was just giving a basic assessment. And I think for that purpose, I'm ok.) :mredface:

EVOKIN
08-27-2008, 12:43 PM
right now its a daily driver. thats how its prolly going to stay, but i want to enter some autox events. i dont want a straight up track car but i dont want just a daily driver either.
Base on this post. You should have enter many autox events before buying anything. Aside from building your car, you have to build on your seat time and to understand your car at limit. Every driver drive the same car differently, so you should then build your setup accordingly. Also you have to understand the class you want to race in. Trust me, I've done what you did with my evo.

Go to Autox events and talk to some of the racers there. Many can tell you to come and race what you have, not buy what you can and then learn your car. In the end, just have fun.

Zzyzx
08-27-2008, 01:20 PM
(And before some flame me on the GROSS inaccuracy I made on tire grip, slip angle, suspension frequency, roll center and so on... I was just giving a basic assessment. And I think for that purpose, I'm ok.) :mredface:


If your basic assessment was just to say that tuning a given suspension is subjective based on the intended use of said suspension... then sure, your ok.

but you have a lot of inaccuracies & grossly wrong assumptions as to how you came to that conclusion. One of them being your assessment of a suspensions stiffness based solely on that suspensions spring rate. Given that spring rates are only one of three variables that determine a given suspensions stiffness. the other two being the design of that suspension (Motion ratio) & the last being how much weight that suspension is holding.

Given the OP's spring rates + what we know of the other two variables... an EP3 with 10K(~560Lb/inch) front springs and 12K(~672Lb/Inch) rears, although initially appearing to have a stiffer rear, is actually stiffer on the nose. Just by calculating in the motion ratio of the front suspension Vs the rear shows that the front Wheel rate is ~8.2K(462.7Lb/inch) and the rear wheel rate is ~4.14K (232.3Lb/inch). So by adding in the 2nd variable we find the nose to already be nearly twice as stiff as the rear. Add in the final Variable, weight and you still end up with the nose being "stiffer". There's ~740Lbs on each front tire and ~460 on each rear tire. That leaves you with ~2.4Hz on the nose and ~2.2Hz on the rear. A substantially smaller difference then what wheel rates implied, but regardless the front is still stiffer.

This alone should prove to you that although your final conclusion was correct, suspension setups are subjective, the path you took to get it is flawed & filled with several misconceptions of whats actually going on with your suspension. And I hope this spurs you on to doing more research to learn the real hows and why's of your suspension.

civictype_r04
08-27-2008, 03:48 PM
I am looking into a Tanabe 22mm or the Type R 22mm or the progress 22mm. So many to pick from.:mconfused:

Drew1d
08-27-2008, 05:19 PM
If your basic assessment was just to say that tuning a given suspension is subjective based on the intended use of said suspension... then sure, your ok.

Dude, that's all I wanted...really. Car maintenance is just a hobby of mine, Real suspension setups are too much math for my interests. Everything I've said is coming from the perspective of a daily driver.

Despite my means, I don't think I lead him too far astray. :msmooch: