best/cheapest way to get major ponies???

[gn-it&rn-it]

OK, new member! Been lurking for some time, and HAVE BEEN USING SEARCH RELIGIOUSLY! But after thread after thread of engine swap combos/ franks/ bolt on to the a3, frankly im getting frustrated and confused. I have just aquired an '03 ep3 w/57,000miles. I am already trying to plan out the go-fast goodies for a few years down the road. I want oem reliability, and to be able to reach mid to low 13's :mwink: What is the best/cheapest way to reach my goals??? Does the a3 stink that bad, that its not worth building up? Mind you, if a swap is needed for my goals, i HAVE NEVER TAKEN AN ENGINE APART, LET ALONE TAKEN ONE OUT. And yes i would LOVE to know how to, and DOING is LEARNING, but that is a big project to screw up. ANY advice would be much appreciated.


P.S. ive heard from here that the '02-'03 ep3's have had exhaust cam gear grinding down issues. Im SO lame, im afraid to pop open the valve cover to check, because i would be afraid of me not setting the seal back right and start leaking! plus i dont even know the torque specs for the studs. Anywho, is there any symptoms of this issue....idle wierd, louder than normal clicking, etc.?

[powdbyrice]

cheap way to get major ponies?

naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwww wwwwwwwwwssssssssss!

but seriously, turbo.

[thechromecoyote]

turbo for MAJOR ponies, swap for some ponies but more reliability

[cow]

hay & maybe some carrots.

[gn-it&rn-it]

turbo for MAJOR ponies, swap for some ponies but more reliability

are we still talking about keeping the a3 and adding turbo?

problem is, i dont have any tuners around my area.

What if i kept the a3 bottom end, replaced the head with a2 or whatever is commonplace around here. Maybe upgrade internals??? then maybe a sc? Once again, i have no idea what i am talking about, let alone what #'s that would give me. i know k-pro is like sex around here, but i dont even know how it works--do i get to play around with tuning, or is it something that a tuner really should be doing.

I also saw a recent ROTM from indiana also, who has an a2 swap/turbo making 400+ hp, but i dont know where he got it tuned at!

[gn-it&rn-it]

well i just found the sticky thread on boosted ep3 info! Qiuckly browsing i found alot were still with the stock a3! I guess thats good news for me. I would just want to make it is reliable and not blow up, so once again build up the internals??? I guess to put a whp # on what i want would be the 275-300 range:msmile: Not sure if i would comfortable be in the 13's. Once again i have nothing to go off of. To put it into perspective, my (new to me) stock ep3 is the fastest car i have ever owned:mcry:

[thechromecoyote]

my ep3 was the same speed as my last car, but a much better lower end pickup and more feelable power throughout the power range.

Keeping the A3 is honestly a limitation as far as power. Your only major options are Turbo/Supercharget or headswap for an a2 head WITH a 6 speed tranny from a type-S.

[20CiviC02Si]

Headswap would be wasting your time. You can't make proper use of the a2 head without the higher compression pistons. Not to mention you will have to have someone to tune regardless of what you choose to do.

So what you need to do is ask yourself, how far do i have to drive to get the car tuned? You can limp an untuned turbo setup over to the shop for tuning. Otherwise just go JRSC with a reflash or KPRO with the .kal already on it.

[bchaney]

I would just want to make it is reliable and not blow up, so once again build up the internals??? I guess to put a whp # on what i want would be the 275-300 range:msmile:

It's not worth investing the $ to build the a3's internals.

It'll also be hard to reach that power (a3) and have a reliable engine that will "not blow up". I'm sure the turbo guys will say it can be done with the right tune, it's just a lot of maintenance.

Your options for the a3 are turbo or s/c. With either it'd be hard to reach 275 reliably. A swap is a reliable option and there's always the possibility to upgrade or boost down the road. Most of these things depend on your budget.

[kenscivic]

get a 99 camaro z28 and put an exhaust , headers, intake and 4.10s be in high 12s


Or if you stick with your ep... I say you MUST swap to get into low 13s if you stay all motor.. k24a2/ cams/ rbc im/ maxbore tb/ race header / little to no exhaust/ cai and you will probably be in high 13s... that would be extremely reliable.. then throw on a 100 shot and you would be where you want to be.

[BlownSi05]

to quote Wetall (i think it was him) for a moment here,

cheap
reliable
fast

you can only pick two and never have all three. lol....not trying to be an ass or anything just telling the truth. as everyone else says, do not build the internals on the A3 its not really worth it. boost it to get the power you want or swap. but again, those three factors will always come into play with everything.

[talonXracer]

There is nothing wrong with building up the A3's internals for FI, in fact I consider it a requirement for any longeviety at higher whp levels. A simple small turbo wont need a built lower end. Any large gain in WHP will require Kpro to keep the engine happy and alive.

[BlownSi05]

There is nothing wrong with building up the A3's internals for FI, in fact I consider it a requirement for any longeviety at higher whp levels. A simple small turbo wont need a built lower end. Any large gain in WHP will require Kpro to keep the engine happy and alive.

/agreed, i should have more clear...lol i meant for going N/A:mconfused:

[ep3k20a2]

get a 99 camaro z28 and put an exhaust , headers, intake and 4.10s be in high 12s


:yeahthat:

agreed :yes:

[mustclime]

jrsc-r,race header, 3 inch cai,3 inch cat back, max bore TB + a good tune = about 4200 bucks if you buy everything new.....jerseyjew has done 13's with this set up.

Turbos are not reliable on the stock k20a3 imo......but you can prove me wrong if you want......:mwink:

[gn-it&rn-it]

thanks for all of the replies! I am in no position do discredit anyones opinions on here, so all posts have been good info. Except for buying a '99 camaro. If i wanted to blend in with the mullett driving white trash in my area, camaro yes. However i bought my ep3 due to Honda reliabilty, and the exclusiveness being there is only 1 other ep3 in my area:mbiggrin:
Anywho so my options are this...???:mconfused:

1. keep a3, go FI, get close to my whp goal, cheap/fast/ not as reliable

2. swap for a2, not close to my whp goal, not as cheap/ not as fast/ very reliable/ possibility for FI later/ at or above goal whp w/FI

3. swap for k24/ not close???, not as fast/ not as cheap/ reliable/ possibility for FI???
I think that sums it up, unless i forgot something.

[T_Virus]

thanks for all of the replies! I am in no position do discredit anyones opinions on here, so all posts have been good info. Except for buying a '99 camaro. If i wanted to blend in with the mullett driving white trash in my area, camaro yes. However i bought my ep3 due to Honda reliabilty, and the exclusiveness being there is only 1 other ep3 in my area:mbiggrin:
Anywho so my options are this...???:mconfused:

1. keep a3, go FI, get close to my whp goal, cheap/fast/ not as reliable

2. swap for a2, not close to my whp goal, not as cheap/ not as fast/ very reliable/ possibility for FI later/ at or above goal whp w/FI

3. swap for k24/ not close???, not as fast/ not as cheap/ reliable/ possibility for FI???
I think that sums it up, unless i forgot something.

#3 should have been swap for k24/ #'s vary/ really good low end, top end would be determined on your build (frankinstein)if you build it right/ cheaper/ depends on how you build your K24 (can be reliable or needs lot of maintanance/ can go turbo too

[davisj3537]

If I could do it all over again I would definately get a k24a2 drop in motor and put a s/c on it and call it a day with a tsx 6spd tran. 6 grand with a tune and bolts on approx.

[weltall]

the cheap fast reliable saying i spout off as religion isnt specific towards types of mods

it goes to the whole hey i bought this ebay turbo kit for 500bucks
vice the more reliable brand name kits like revhard greddy full race ect

doing thing right and buying the right parts will always put you into the fast and reliable category (just you will find the cheapness of parts is long gone)

cheap
fast
reliable

only applyes to the parts used and purchased NOT to the setup you plan on running ie swap, turbo,S/C ,NA

[k20z1]

i'm pritty sure ppl on the fourm is gonna tell u either get turbo or superchargerd

[makavelibranded]

well i just found the sticky thread on boosted ep3 info! Qiuckly browsing i found alot were still with the stock a3! I guess thats good news for me. I would just want to make it is reliable and not blow up, so once again build up the internals??? I guess to put a whp # on what i want would be the 275-300 range:msmile: Not sure if i would comfortable be in the 13's. Once again i have nothing to go off of. To put it into perspective, my (new to me) stock ep3 is the fastest car i have ever owned:mcry:


275 is realistic on the a3, and you can get that from a turbo reliably w/ a good tune. 300+ from what ive read is pushing it on the a3 bottom, something about crankwalk, and weak rods you should read into.

the Jackson Racing Race SC will make 220-30 im pretty sure depending on what you have it set up with on the a3. Remember depending on how you drive, if you gut the interior, tires ect. ect. depends on what times youll get. JerseyJew's times to me are not realistic to look forward too, considering he wont be driving it.

Just make sure you know the limits of the engine, get it tuned right and dont beat it to hell and it shouldint blow up.

You could build up the internals for boost on the a3, or just go for a k24a1 w/a k20a2 head or complete k24a2, then you could push alot more then just 300hp.

[gn-it&rn-it]

yeah, im really leaning towards a swap. But i havent made up my mind on going k20a2, or the k24a2 route. Oh, well, i have lots of time to ponder. And Weltall, im not exactly sure what you were trying to get to in your post, but to clear things up...I DO want to do this right the first time. And i meant quality parts for cheap( no any good places??), not cheap quality parts. THAT in itself is what seperates the men from the ricers. I dont want to spend lets say 3,000 more for the build just because i didnt know about a place that sells shit cheaper, you know what i mean???

P.S. I am SO FAR from being rice. If i buy me a body kit( HFP hopefully soon) i would test fit, then take the damn thing off to paint it, not test fit it for 8+ years with grey primer( dumb ricers!)

[gn-it&rn-it]

If I could do it all over again I would definately get a k24a2 drop in motor and put a s/c on it and call it a day with a tsx 6spd tran. 6 grand with a tune and bolts on approx.

I REALLY like this suggestion. Any guess on #'s? Boy i would need some fat, sticky tires:thumbu:

[makavelibranded]

P.S. I am SO FAR from being rice. If i buy me a body kit( HFP hopefully soon) i would test fit, then take the damn thing off to paint it, not test fit it for 8+ years with grey primer( dumb ricers!)

if you get the hfp it comes painted



and heres a vid by jpax of that set up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3epSMR6BPAM

[civictype_r04]

to quote Wetall (i think it was him) for a moment here,

cheap
reliable
fast

you can only pick two and never have all three. lol....not trying to be an ass or anything just telling the truth. as everyone else says, do not build the internals on the A3 its not really worth it. boost it to get the power you want or swap. but again, those three factors will always come into play with everything.

Words to live by.:mwink:

[gn-it&rn-it]

if you get the hfp it comes painted



and heres a vid by jpax of that set up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3epSMR6BPAM

Nice vid!!! And i know the hfp comes painted, i was throwing a non-painted body kit into my scenario of what is rice/ not rice

[gn-it&rn-it]

Words to live by.:mwink:


Once again, i have understanded this for a very long time. please re-read what i meant by CHEAP!:thanks:

[talonXracer]

If you want reliable, then you need to stay with OEM cast pistons, forged generally have half the lifespan. So that means looking at a K20A/A2 and K24A2 for your start. If you are going FI it wouldnt be a bad idea to send those pistons out to be ceramic coated. I have a stock A2 bottom end and a worked over head with cams. I can handle any S2k w/bolt-ons, I just got 36.2mpg highway down to Md last weekend and the bottom end has over 140K miles on it.

You cant beat OEM for reliability, and it can make decent power in the correct combination with select aftermarket parts.

[davisj3537]

I REALLY like this suggestion. Any guess on #'s? Boy i would need some fat, sticky tires:thumbu:

Well you can see a somewhat easy 240whp and 200wtq with a bolt on k24a2. Add in the s/c and say hello to some high 200s with some wicked tq. This is only of course if you are super power hungry. I would be tempted to just throw in some good cams, rbc and a very nice header like SSR and call it good(255whp or so). That would be very reliable!

[mustclime]

Well you can see a somewhat easy 240whp and 200wtq with a bolt on k24a2. Add in the s/c and say hello to some high 200s with some wicked tq. This is only of course if you are super power hungry. I would be tempted to just throw in some good cams, rbc and a very nice header like SSR and call it good(255whp or so). That would be very reliable!

:bs: running up the flag on this one.....no way in hell you doing that with stock cams and to most people think of cams as bolt ons.........The stock cams on the k24a2 are set for tq. k24a2 motors tend to run out of cam around 6500-7000 rpm....I have not seen a stock tsx motor much over 200whp without cams or a k20a2 head and cams.

[talonXracer]

The K24A2 responds very well to bolt-ons(stock cams), much better than the K20A2's.

Unless you are going with a total rebuild with more compression and an acceptable set of cams, I wouldnt expect those high 200's. I plan on running the K2's and Z3 head with my built K24 bottom end and only expect 260-270whp.

[davisj3537]

:bs: running up the flag on this one.....no way in hell you doing that with stock cams and to most people think of cams as bolt ons.........The stock cams on the k24a2 are set for tq. k24a2 motors tend to run out of cam around 6500-7000 rpm....I have not seen a stock tsx motor much over 200whp without cams or a k20a2 head and cams.

With bolt ons and a tune the k20a2 hits over 220whp. The extra displacement counts for nothing when considering the bolt ons? Maybe 240 was a cunt hair high but not by much in my eyes. I didn't count cams as bolt ons but when you throw on a bored tb/rbc/img/CAI/SSR/Catback and a good tune you can get those numbers I think. Thats why I can totally see the solid 250s when throwing in some solid cams like IPS to take advantage of the rbc and SSR.

[davisj3537]

The K24A2 responds very well to bolt-ons(stock cams), much better than the K20A2's.

Unless you are going with a total rebuild with more compression and an acceptable set of cams, I wouldnt expect those high 200's. I plan on running the K2's and Z3 head with my built K24 bottom end and only expect 260-270whp.

You don't think the s/c would yield those higher 200s?

[mustclime]

With bolt ons and a tune the k20a2 hits over 220whp. The extra displacement counts for nothing when considering the bolt ons? Maybe 240 was a cunt hair high but not by much in my eyes. I didn't count cams as bolt ons but when you throw on a bored tb/rbc/img/CAI/SSR/Catback and a good tune you can get those numbers I think. Thats why I can totally see the solid 250s when throwing in some solid cams like IPS to take advantage of the rbc and SSR.

Show me some dynos, I have seen a bunch of k24a2 dynos just around 200 whp....lower rpm, the different head and cams matter.

[mustclime]

here are some dyno's to prove my point........

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showpost.php?p=35297&postcount=9

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showpost.php?p=173975&postcount=83

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showpost.php?p=173975&postcount=83

go through this thread.....stock cams on a k24a2 = 200whp...

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=34644&highlight=k20a2+dyno

[talonXracer]

The K24A2 with cams and quality bolt-ons and a SC would be close to 300.


I have seen many a K24A2 with 220+whp w/bolt-ons and cams. But peak WHP is not where a DD will spend it's life. I purposely detune my top end for longeviety.

[davisj3537]

Well I'll be damned.lol. That head does really exert most of its power down low to sacrifice it up top. I stand corrected. However with a traditional a2 head and the k24a2 bottom end will make the power I was talking about correct?

[foxhoundEP3]

thanks for all of the replies! I am in no position do discredit anyones opinions on here, so all posts have been good info. Except for buying a '99 camaro. If i wanted to blend in with the mullett driving white trash in my area, camaro yes. However i bought my ep3 due to Honda reliabilty, and the exclusiveness being there is only 1 other ep3 in my area:mbiggrin:
Anywho so my options are this...???:mconfused:

1. keep a3, go FI, get close to my whp goal, cheap/fast/ not as reliable

2. swap for a2, not close to my whp goal, not as cheap/ not as fast/ very reliable/ possibility for FI later/ at or above goal whp w/FI

3. swap for k24/ not close???, not as fast/ not as cheap/ reliable/ possibility for FI???
I think that sums it up, unless i forgot something.


hate to say it but what the hell is FI ???

[Tnhatch03]

hate to say it but what the hell is FI ???

:mconfused::mangel:

Forced Induction = FI
Super Charger = SC
Naturally Aspirated = NA
Nitrous Oxide = NOSSSSS

[makavelibranded]

hate to say it but what the hell is FI ???

:meek:



:10::10::10:

[mustclime]

Well I'll be damned.lol. That head does really exert most of its power down low to sacrifice it up top. I stand corrected. However with a traditional a2 head and the k24a2 bottom end will make the power I was talking about correct?

The big thing is the cams. They are set for tq. I have read that there is a lot meat that can be removed from the k24a2 head. If this is done like Realtime racing does, there is a ton of hp to be had on this head.....Just a fyi, reving the k24a2 motor to 7500rpm = the same pistion speeds as a k20a2 motor at 9000 rpm........think about that next time you hear about a k24 being reved to 9000 rpm.:mredface:

[davisj3537]

The big thing is the cams. They are set for tq. I have read that there is a lot meat that can be removed from the k24a2 head. If this is done like Realtime racing does, there is a ton of hp to be had on this head.....Just a fyi, reving the k24a2 motor to 7500rpm = the same pistion speeds as a k20a2 motor at 9000 rpm........think about that next time you hear about a k24 being reved to 9000 rpm.:mredface:

I was aware of the piston speed. It seems you can tell people over and over but they still want to rev high:mconfused:I really don't like the idea of revving over 7500 either.