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shortstop
03-25-2010, 08:09 PM
Had a question on the swap, I ordered a bare brand new rbc intake manifold and karcepts adapter. Do i go ahad and use the tsx throttle body? Also will all my stock sensors for the tb/intake set up off he a3 mate up to the rbc/karcepts/tsx tb?

I am going to swap thermostat housings (gaskets etc..)
crv side mount
clutch/flywheel rsx s spec
innovative mounts
310cc injectors
have my exhaust cut to fit header or vice versa
rbc/karcepts/hondata img

Have the kpro already, I think this is pretty much it if i remember right from the swap thread that I can no longer find

1SalientEp3
03-26-2010, 12:02 AM
no you use the a3 tb, and everything will go right on, your gonna love the swap, just got mines done last week :) good luck with everything

shortstop
03-26-2010, 02:51 PM
honest question, how much faster is it now then with the a3 with bolt ons? Like say you roll raced 1 car and lost by a car and now you win by what 2 cars? more less ?

1SalientEp3
03-27-2010, 02:56 AM
well with the swap i havent had the chance to race anyone, but u can mos deff feel the difference once you drive it. if i do race i will let u know haha

vbpracer
03-27-2010, 09:48 AM
Yeah my swap thread is gone, I thought I saved it, but apparently I didn't. If anyone did happen to save it on their hdd please let me know.

You want to use the a3 tb with karcepts adapter for the rbc. Use the a3 thermostat, with the tsx housing.

One of the biggest advantages is the torque of this engine, if I compare to when I had the race kit on the a3, I would say this feels just as good in terms of torque.

EP3driver
03-31-2010, 03:10 PM
Yeah my swap thread is gone, I thought I saved it, but apparently I didn't. If anyone did happen to save it on their hdd please let me know.

You want to use the a3 tb with karcepts adapter for the rbc. Use the a3 thermostat, with the tsx housing.

One of the biggest advantages is the torque of this engine, if I compare to when I had the race kit on the a3, I would say this feels just as good in terms of torque.

I see you are in TX, did you find the swap in TX? how much did it cost you if you do not mind me asking.

scorpionsf
03-31-2010, 05:53 PM
another question for you guys with the k24a2 engine. about what mpg do you guys get pre and post swap??

Slip_Angle
03-31-2010, 08:19 PM
another question for you guys with the k24a2 engine. about what mpg do you guys get pre and post swap??

My milage stayed the same.

isaac297
04-01-2010, 12:24 PM
I see you are in TX, did you find the swap in TX? how much did it cost you if you do not mind me asking.

x2....

EP3driver
04-02-2010, 05:48 AM
If I get a complete swap, is there anything else I need to get? Are the mounts the same? Given that it seems slightly bigger, any issues dropping the K24 in the engiune bay? I figured I would get either the K20A2 or the K24A2. The K20A2 obviously is much easier to drop in but it seems the K24A2 is a better choice.

Deadphishy
04-02-2010, 06:52 AM
If I get a complete swap, is there anything else I need to get? Are the mounts the same? Given that it seems slightly bigger, any issues dropping the K24 in the engiune bay? I figured I would get either the K20A2 or the K24A2. The K20A2 obviously is much easier to drop in but it seems the K24A2 is a better choice.

really it isn't much more work to put a k24 in the car vs. a k20a2. You will need your A3's knock sensor, and Throttle body. You will need a CRV side mount bracket, and depending on what header you have, you might need to remove your front sway bar, or get an EM2 front sway.
the motor is 19mm higher and doesn't have any trouble fitting into the bay.

And last. the K24 isn't a better choice. It is just a different choice. I love my k24.

MadLorEP3
04-15-2010, 03:06 AM
no you use the a3 tb, and everything will go right on, your gonna love the swap, just got mines done last week :) good luck with everything

sorry for the thread jack but

who did your swap
Im in los angeles and Im getting ready to do mines
already have the k24a2 just need kpro, motormounts, innovative mounts, karcepts adapter, em2 sway to clear my dcrh,
not sure what else I would need

if you did it yourself any chance you can help me out Im planning to either bring it to a shop or find a local member that has done it before and is pretty knowlegeable about it to help me out

MadLorEP3
04-15-2010, 03:08 AM
Yeah my swap thread is gone, I thought I saved it, but apparently I didn't. If anyone did happen to save it on their hdd please let me know.

You want to use the a3 tb with karcepts adapter for the rbc. Use the a3 thermostat, with the tsx housing.

One of the biggest advantages is the torque of this engine, if I compare to when I had the race kit on the a3, I would say this feels just as good in terms of torque.

do you still need the karcepts adapter if Im going to use the rbb (tsx intake mani) instead of the rbc
I remember hearing around k20a.org that rbc and rbb pretty much the same in terms of their performance

EDIT: ok i found out that you do need the karcepts adapter even with the rbb

MadLorEP3
04-15-2010, 03:24 AM
Had a question on the swap, I ordered a bare brand new rbc intake manifold and karcepts adapter. Do i go ahad and use the tsx throttle body? Also will all my stock sensors for the tb/intake set up off he a3 mate up to the rbc/karcepts/tsx tb?

I am going to swap thermostat housings (gaskets etc..)
crv side mount
clutch/flywheel rsx s spec
innovative mounts
310cc injectors
have my exhaust cut to fit header or vice versa
rbc/karcepts/hondata img

Have the kpro already, I think this is pretty much it if i remember right from the swap thread that I can no longer find

Is it necessary to get 310cc injectors if your using kpro? Or is an injector upgrade something that can be done later.

Kerby
04-15-2010, 04:43 AM
injectors can be purchased later. All you simply do is make the adjustments and clarify what injector your running in Kpro Manager.

I see something in this thread I want to clarify. A CRV side mount is NOT needed. What you need is the Side BRACKET.
Also, you might have to trim a small piece on the radiator support to clear the RBC. Same deal with the hood.

Other things I see missing in your list that came in handy when I did mine:

Head Valve Cover gasket kit - (if your powdercoating a VC or installing the K20Z3 upper chain guide)
K20z3 upper chain guide
Corsport Tranny bushings
RBC TB OEM gasket
PRB TB OEM gasket
misc. exhaust/intake nuts and bolts (incase you strip any)
Honda Manual Tranny Fluid
Honda Type II Coolant
Honda OEM oil filter
OIl Seal MT Tranny Case
Release Fork Setting Spring
Release Fork Boot
Oil Seal Chain Case
Clutch Release Bearing

I don't remember what we broke... maybe 02EPSI can chime in... but it was a seal on the half shaft.

MadLorEP3
04-15-2010, 02:20 PM
injectors can be purchased later. All you simply do is make the adjustments and clarify what injector your running in Kpro Manager.

I see something in this thread I want to clarify. A CRV side mount is NOT needed. What you need is the Side BRACKET.
Also, you might have to trim a small piece on the radiator support to clear the RBC. Same deal with the hood.

Other things I see missing in your list that came in handy when I did mine:

Head Valve Cover gasket kit - (if your powdercoating a VC or installing the K20Z3 upper chain guide)
K20z3 upper chain guide
Corsport Tranny bushings
RBC TB OEM gasket
PRB TB OEM gasket
misc. exhaust/intake nuts and bolts (incase you strip any)
Honda Manual Tranny Fluid
Honda Type II Coolant
Honda OEM oil filter
OIl Seal MT Tranny Case
Release Fork Setting Spring
Release Fork Boot
Oil Seal Chain Case
Clutch Release Bearing

I don't remember what we broke... maybe 02EPSI can chime in... but it was a seal on the half shaft.

kerby in the list you provided whats essential for the swap and what can be done later
Is the z3 upper chain guide necessary

OIl Seal MT Tranny Case
Release Fork Setting Spring
Release Fork Boot
Oil Seal Chain Case
Clutch Release Bearing

are these items needed only when you open up a tranny?

Kerby
04-16-2010, 10:01 AM
Is the z3 upper chain guide necessary
it's not necessary... but if your doing the gasket kit you might as well buy this. It's also a "piece of mind" part. It a cheap and effective mod.
The Z3 guide is far superior to the k24a2 guide. Check this pic out when i changed mine out. guess which one is the k24a2 guide...
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj309/KerbyEP3/TSX%20K24A2%20swap/101_0744.jpg



OIl Seal MT Tranny Case
Release Fork Setting Spring
Release Fork Boot
Oil Seal Chain Case
Clutch Release Bearing
are these items needed only when you open up a tranny?

when you seperate the tranny from the old motor you have access to these parts. No, they are not necessary. But if you motor was anything like mine...
after 75K miles it's a good idea to start fresh, and/or do some routine maintenance. Again, these parts aren't expensive. If you need part numbers hit me up.
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj309/KerbyEP3/TSX%20K24A2%20swap/IMG00395-20090926-2010.jpg

MadLorEP3
04-16-2010, 03:58 PM
Thanks bro

Yes Yes part numbers please

jri93
04-16-2010, 05:14 PM
first off sorry for this long post.

unless you have current transmission problems there is no need to break into your tranny and start replacing random things. the only thing you should replace is your clutch (mostly because its so easy to do while the motor is out, and your gonna want a new clutch with all your new tq), and that comes with a new throwout bearing and pilot bearing which is all you need.


now, about intake manifolds, bare with me here, i have a theory.

the RBB (tsx) was built to maximize tq at the expense of sacrificing top end power .... good for a heavy sedan like the tsx, but not what any honda enthusiast wants... and the RBC was built to sacrifice tq in order to produce high hp up past 8K rpms... well the stock k24 cant even rev past 8k so this doesn't make sense, why would you sacrifice all your tq to gain hp in a rpm range past that of which you are able to operate in???

which leaves me at this... the prb... yup the good ol stock k20a3 and k20a2 manifold. everyone overlooks it but why? Its runners are designed in between that of the rbb and rbc meaning it produces better tq than the rbc and better top end than the rbb. and it still obviously has the capability of producing good hp numbers easily up to 8K rpms hence why they put it on the k20a2's.

my theory is that the best manifold to use on a stock k24a2 is actually a prb. put it this way, i have the prb on my k24a2, i did a slight gasket match / port job on the mani but nuthin serious. i also have a cold air, krpo, and race header. if i do a 20mph roll and stomp it in first i will light up the tires all the way to redline and then continue to burn them into 2nd..... i have my redline set at 7600 rpm and it pulls hard every inch of the way and it even feels like it wants to keep goin! i think this manifold could be effective alll the way to 8k rpm, im just to scared to take it that high.

basically i just dont see why people waste 200 bucks on a rbc when people have actually shown losses acros the board... the only k24a2's that are able to benefit from a rbc would be extremely modified and able to rev very high. and i dont know who would ever want to use a rbb... its just not a good intake mani for extracting performance. and to make things even better, everyone already has a prb because they come right off our stock motors, and if you dont you can buy one for like 30 bucks! well this is just my theory and i have no dyno proof to back it up, just seems logical though. what do you guys think??

Slip_Angle
04-16-2010, 09:56 PM
I think the PRC would be a better choice, I tried the prb vs the rbb and liked the rbb much better.

I ordered a PRC from a guy of k20a.org and got it a couple weeks ago...Problem is he shipped me a PRB because he wasn't paying attention. His ad said k20a manifold and I explicitly messaged him asking about his prc manifold and he still got it wrong....

I stomp it from a roll in 2nd with Dunlop Z1's + LSD and light em up easy. Don't kid yourself, torque rules.

MadLorEP3
04-17-2010, 12:24 AM
Thanks bro

Yes Yes part numbers please

I am gonna be doing the tsx 6th gear conversion on my ep tranny as well
along with wavetrac LSD, 4.3 FD

have you done the conversion
Any idea if all these parts are needed
got the info from k20a
I know that i would also need a shifter mechanism from either a z3 or type s

> >> >> PART NUMBERS AND RETAIL LIST PRICING
> >> >>
> >> >> Distance Collar 23915-PPP-000 $20.43
> >> >> Needle Bearing 91103-PNS-003 $11.63
> >> >> Mainshaft sixth gear 23590-PNS-000 $74.67
> >> >> Mainshaft fifth gear 23580-PNS-000 $63.82
> >> >> Mainshaft fourth gear 23450-PNS-000 $71.55
> >> >> Mainshaft Third gear set 23444-PNS-306 $289.03
> >> >> Synchronizer sleeve set(5-6) 23626-PNS-305 $264.40
> >> >> Countershaft third gear 23471-PNS-000 $74.67
> >> >> Countershaft fourth gear 23481-PNS-000 $62.22
> >> >> Countershaft fifth gear 23461-PNS-000 $68.43
> >> >> Countershaft sixth gear 23491-PNS-000 $55.97
> >> >> Reverse shift piece 24240-PNS-000 $41.63
> >> >> Gearshift fork(3-4) 24210-PNS-010 $55.98

HAHA IM ANSWERING MY OWN QUESTION
HERES AN UPDATED LIST OF PARTS NECESSARY FOR THE 6SP CONVERSION
TYPE-S SHIFTER MECHANISM

Reverse shift piece 24240-PNS-000 $34.75
24430-PNS-000 INTERLOCK 1 $21.74 (not needed if you buy the entire shifter mechanism)
24201-RAS-000 FORK, FIFTH-SIXTH GEARSHIFT 1 $52.34

MAINSHAFT PARTS:
Mainshaft sixth gear 23590-PNS-000 (23590-RAS-A00) $56.07
Needle Bearing 91103-PNS-003 (91103-RAS-003) $7.48
Distance Collar 23915-PPP-000 (23916-PNS-000) $4.12

COUNTERSHAFT PARTS:
90011-PPP-000 BOLT, SPECIAL (20X25) $4.81
Countershaft sixth gear 23491-RAS-000 $48.70

NOT SURE HOW ACCUARATE THESE PRICES ARE

MadLorEP3
04-17-2010, 12:38 AM
first off sorry for this long post.

unless you have current transmission problems there is no need to break into your tranny and start replacing random things. the only thing you should replace is your clutch (mostly because its so easy to do while the motor is out, and your gonna want a new clutch with all your new tq), and that comes with a new throwout bearing and pilot bearing which is all you need.

now, about intake manifolds, bare with me here, i have a theory.

the RBB (tsx) was built to maximize tq at the expense of sacrificing top end power .... good for a heavy sedan like the tsx, but not what any honda enthusiast wants... and the RBC was built to sacrifice tq in order to produce high hp up past 8K rpms... well the stock k24 cant even rev past 8k so this doesn't make sense, why would you sacrifice all your tq to gain hp in a rpm range past that of which you are able to operate in???

which leaves me at this... the prb... yup the good ol stock k20a3 and k20a2 manifold. everyone overlooks it but why? Its runners are designed in between that of the rbb and rbc meaning it produces better tq than the rbc and better top end than the rbb. and it still obviously has the capability of producing good hp numbers easily up to 8K rpms hence why they put it on the k20a2's.

my theory is that the best manifold to use on a stock k24a2 is actually a prb. put it this way, i have the prb on my k24a2, i did a slight gasket match / port job on the mani but nuthin serious. i also have a cold air, krpo, and race header. if i do a 20mph roll and stomp it in first i will light up the tires all the way to redline and then continue to burn them into 2nd..... i have my redline set at 7600 rpm and it pulls hard every inch of the way and it even feels like it wants to keep goin! i think this manifold could be effective alll the way to 8k rpm, im just to scared to take it that high.

basically i just dont see why people waste 200 bucks on a rbc when people have actually shown losses acros the board... the only k24a2's that are able to benefit from a rbc would be extremely modified and able to rev very high. and i dont know who would ever want to use a rbb... its just not a good intake mani for extracting performance. and to make things even better, everyone already has a prb because they come right off our stock motors, and if you dont you can buy one for like 30 bucks! well this is just my theory and i have no dyno proof to back it up, just seems logical though. what do you guys think??


interesting
so rbb maximizes tq but sacrifices top end power
rbc maximizes top end but sacrifices tq
prb in the middle
Im gonna try to find comparisons on k20a.org


I think the PRC would be a better choice, I tried the prb vs the rbb and liked the rbb much better.

I ordered a PRC from a guy of k20a.org and got it a couple weeks ago...Problem is he shipped me a PRB because he wasn't paying attention. His ad said k20a manifold and I explicitly messaged him asking about his prc manifold and he still got it wrong....

I stomp it from a roll in 2nd with Dunlop Z1's + LSD and light em up easy. Don't kid yourself, torque rules.

and your saying rbb shits on prb cuz tq is the shit
but how does the prc that you like compare to these 2

jri93
04-17-2010, 09:50 AM
I think the PRC would be a better choice, I tried the prb vs the rbb and liked the rbb much better.

I ordered a PRC from a guy of k20a.org and got it a couple weeks ago...Problem is he shipped me a PRB because he wasn't paying attention. His ad said k20a manifold and I explicitly messaged him asking about his prc manifold and he still got it wrong....

I stomp it from a roll in 2nd with Dunlop Z1's + LSD and light em up easy. Don't kid yourself, torque rules.

so you actually physically tried them both?? without any other changes to the car?? the rbb has better tq, i expected that.... but how was the top end on the prb compared to the rbb?? i dont have a lsd so more tq=less traction for me lol i need that top end!

jri93
04-17-2010, 10:09 AM
I think the PRC would be a better choice,

can you explain this? i did some searching because i didint know much about this and this is what i found (taken from a super street article)

"The "PRC" manifold is found on the JDM K20A Type-R engines. The U.S. equivalent or "PRB" is found on the '02-06 RSX Type-S (K20A2/Z1) and '02-05 Civic Si (K20A3), with slight differences in runner design."

so it seems that the prc is pretty similar to the prb... i also noticed that physically they look almost identical

PAPITUYO326
04-17-2010, 10:29 AM
PRC vs. PRB is very close in the exterior, but slightly different in the runners on the inside as mentioned. I had the PRC on my k20a3 a few years ago and enjoyed it. The RBC on my k24 right now is solid, but probably not getting utilized to its max potential until I am spraying.

RBC isnt ESSENTIAL, but it is a nice option to do right away if you plan to cam the car or run forced induction.

Slip_Angle
04-17-2010, 02:13 PM
so you actually physically tried them both?? without any other changes to the car?? the rbb has better tq, i expected that.... but how was the top end on the prb compared to the rbb?? i dont have a lsd so more tq=less traction for me lol i need that top end!

Yes, I started with the PRB and it was good, then I switched to the RBB and it was better. No changes except tuning. I found no loss in top end and a large gain across the entire rev range. You wouldn't think the PRC would be much different than the PRB but from some of the dyno's I saw on k20a.org it looked really strong on the top end and *apparently* didn't give up torque through the rev range, although I believe it shifted the torque band up...

BTW: Are you running the 45* + VTC and the 06 + TSX Intake Cam? If not, that should be first on your list. That cam makes serious power both on the primary and the VTEC lobes. I just installed it a couple weeks ago and what a difference!

jri93
04-17-2010, 02:19 PM
well my k24a2 block is an 06 so yea it has the better cam and im in the process of getting the 45* vtc done. after that its off to get tuned..... btw im running on slightly moded base map. pretty much no tunning...i cant wait to see the difference once i get tuned....

MadLorEP3
04-17-2010, 07:54 PM
so for a stock k24a2 im good to go on the rbb right?

Slip_Angle
04-17-2010, 08:34 PM
so for a stock k24a2 im good to go on the rbb right?

Yes

MadLorEP3
04-17-2010, 11:29 PM
Yes

coo coo thanks
thats all i wanted to hear

shortstop
04-18-2010, 04:14 PM
Good bit of info in here. I am using rbc with intentions to turbo. I also have the stock tsx manifold so i may swap over after i get boost after reading this. thanks guys.

MadLorEP3
04-19-2010, 07:08 PM
what belt are you gonna use and where you getting it from?

if Im using my ep3 TB and karcepts adapter onto my rbb intake mani
I know that I would need 2 TB gaskets
but Im not sure if one gasket is ep3 specific and the other gasket is k24a2 specific

Is the p2r gasket better than oem gaskets
anyone know the price difference

MadLorEP3
04-19-2010, 07:26 PM
shortstop have you bought all the necessary parts that you will be needing

I made a list of parts that I will need I just wanna make sure mine is similar to your list

vbpracer
04-19-2010, 08:23 PM
I wouldnt worry for gaskets, just use some permatex on one side, old gasket on the other and you're good. Wouldn't waste money on the p2r gaskets either. As for the belt, you will be using the stock belt, forget what size but its of off the a3.

MadLorEP3
04-19-2010, 08:42 PM
I wouldnt worry for gaskets, just use some permatex on one side, old gasket on the other and you're good. Wouldn't waste money on the p2r gaskets either. As for the belt, you will be using the stock belt, forget what size but its of off the a3.

i heard it was very difficult to either remove the belt from the a3 or to put it on the k24

what is permatex?

also, if I decide to get brand new oem gaskets since you say p2r is a waste of money then would I need (1) ep3 TB gasket, (1) k24a2 TB gasket and 1 k24a2 exhaust mani gasket????

ep-unit
05-05-2010, 08:58 PM
great thread K24A2 FTW!!!