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cukali
04-21-2010, 07:43 AM
Going to grab some rotors and calipers from the CRV to replace our undersized brakes. Anyone done this yet?


our brakes = 14"

CRV = 16"


Also, looks to me like one could put the whole strut assembly from the CRV onto ours...not like I would want to, but would be interesting.

vbpracer
04-21-2010, 08:24 AM
Are you referring to rotor size?

ZoomBoy
04-21-2010, 08:35 AM
I wish our rotors were 14", no idea what he is talking about.

vbpracer
04-21-2010, 08:51 AM
My brembo bbk is 13", which barely fits with 17's, so I was curious too. I think stock size is 11.9"?

RedSiBaron
04-21-2010, 09:04 AM
11.9 would be the stock rsx/ 04/05 ep3 brakes...the stock 02/03 are smaller even

vtecDave
04-21-2010, 01:47 PM
every time i drive my in-law's "new" CR-V i am always impressed with the brakes. that thing stops on a freakin' dime. i'm interested to see the outcome (if any) of this. may be a good "upgrade" if possible after getting larger wheels to fit.

i wonder how much "power assist" comes into play and what additional parts would need to be swapped over from the CR-V?

talonXracer
04-21-2010, 02:37 PM
The stock rotors are 10.3" I do believe.

sLiCk
04-21-2010, 06:00 PM
The stock front rotors are 10.3"

Lucid Moments
04-21-2010, 06:26 PM
Repeat after me.

"Bigger brakes will not make my car stop faster"

MadLorEP3
04-21-2010, 11:43 PM
BUT bigger brakes looks siiccckkkk

dmon
04-21-2010, 11:54 PM
Repeat after me.

"Bigger brakes will not make my car stop faster"

lolz

Lucid Moments
04-22-2010, 05:05 AM
BUT bigger brakes looks siiccckkkk

Granted, and I do have a Wilwood BBK on my car. It doesn't make it stop any faster than the stock brakes can though.

talonXracer
04-22-2010, 05:08 AM
Granted, and I do have a Wilwood BBK on my car. It doesn't make it stop any faster than the stock brakes can though.

But you can stop many more times before brake fade starts to set in.

Lucid Moments
04-22-2010, 08:31 AM
But you can stop many more times before brake fade starts to set in.

True, and that is the purpose of a BBK.

talonXracer
04-22-2010, 09:38 AM
True, and that is the purpose of a BBK.

And that is a fact many overlook!

Silvershadow
04-22-2010, 10:12 AM
Bigger brakes do make our cars stop faster.Bigger rotors might not.
Look at the RSX-S & EP3 stopping distances there's a 8 foot difference 70mph -O.Our cars 40 lbs lighter yet takes longer to stop.

Lucid Moments
04-22-2010, 10:45 AM
Bigger brakes do make our cars stop faster.Bigger rotors might not.
Look at the RSX-S & EP3 stopping distances there's a 8 foot difference 70mph -O.Our cars 40 lbs lighter yet takes longer to stop.

RSX also uses different tire sizes, and has different spring rates and damper rates. Also were those tests done under same day, same surface? I don't know myself but I doubt it.

The thing is that brakes are in their essence very, very simple devices. (the details get complicated don't get me wrong, but the basic concept is very simple) Brakes convert kinetic energy (the motion of the car) to heat energy via friction. You have two friction areas.

First there is friction between the brake pad and the brake rotor. If you want to increas this all you have to do is press the brake pedal harder. At least up until you start bursting brake lines this will create more friction and unless you are the incredible hulk you can't create enough pressure to rupture brake lines that are in good condition. Bigger brakes will not change this at all.

The second area of friction is between the tire and the road. This is almost always the limiting factor. I have never heard of a braking system that is not capable of overcoming that friction. The stock EP brakes certainly can. (at least if you disable the ABS they can) So since the stock brakes can lock up your tires then going bigger won't stop you any faster.

hotwired_78
04-23-2010, 12:03 AM
try a different compound brake pad

Kerby
04-23-2010, 04:36 AM
earlier this week I was surfing Fastbrakes and I found something kinda kool... they now offer a wilwood rear kit. I called but it just went to VM.
I've had now the wilwood 12.2 in the front and the 10.9 in the rear for over a year and I have no complant.

check it out:
http://www.fastbrakes.com/product_p/rsx%20rear%2012.htm

Lucid Moments
04-23-2010, 05:27 AM
By the way. I'm not saying not to get bigger brakes. If you can, and you want to then go for it. But don't lie to yourself and think it will make your car stop faster.

Blindeye_03
04-23-2010, 08:35 AM
Stickier tires and better brake pads will make your car stop faster.

Zzyzx
04-23-2010, 09:01 AM
RSX also uses different tire sizes, and has different spring rates and damper rates. Also were those tests done under same day, same surface? I don't know myself but I doubt it.

The thing is that brakes are in their essence very, very simple devices. (the details get complicated don't get me wrong, but the basic concept is very simple) Brakes convert kinetic energy (the motion of the car) to heat energy via friction. You have two friction areas.

First there is friction between the brake pad and the brake rotor. If you want to increas this all you have to do is press the brake pedal harder. At least up until you start bursting brake lines this will create more friction and unless you are the incredible hulk you can't create enough pressure to rupture brake lines that are in good condition. Bigger brakes will not change this at all.

The second area of friction is between the tire and the road. This is almost always the limiting factor. I have never heard of a braking system that is not capable of overcoming that friction. The stock EP brakes certainly can. (at least if you disable the ABS they can) So since the stock brakes can lock up your tires then going bigger won't stop you any faster.

That is so much better then my typical explanation of the subject.

Lucid Moments
04-23-2010, 09:59 AM
Stickier tires and better brake pads will make your car stop faster.

Stickier tires will, better brake pads won't. At least they won't unless you get tires that are so sticky they overwhelm the stock brakes. I'm not sure if such a thing exists though. See my explanation above.

Lucid Moments
04-23-2010, 10:13 AM
That is so much better then my typical explanation of the subject.

Why thank you sir. I appreciate that coming from you.

talonXracer
04-23-2010, 10:24 AM
I have seen better pads provide significant improvements in braking forces. When the pads have a material that provides more friction, the brakes will improve up till the tires loose traction or brake fade sets in. But i will place this disclaimer,,,this doesnt apply to the stock braking/tire system in the EP3.

cukali
04-27-2010, 07:49 AM
Repeat after me.

"Bigger brakes will not make my car stop faster"

Repeat after me "Brake fade".


I dont think anyone said they will make you stop faster (unless I missed something), but they certainly will and do. If your a person who hard brakes only once then you will not need them. My cars fades on only the second hard braking.. do more than that and youll have a hard time stopping and end up with warped brakes. There is no solution to that except larger brakes or less braking. Cross drilled and slotted brakes look good, but only shorten time between hard braking, not brake temp during.

But what you said is true for a "one-time" stop with "same-sized-tires". Beyond that it becomes un-true.

cukali
04-27-2010, 07:54 AM
I wish our rotors were 14", no idea what he is talking about.

Honda measures them different.

Civic Si is 14". CRV is 16".

See below.

http://www.bkhondaparts.com/billkay/jsp/prddisplay.jsp?catcgry1=CIVIC&catcgry2=2005&catcgry3=3DR+SI&catcgry4=KA5MT&catcgry5=FRONT+BRAKE+%28+04-05%29&ListAll=All&vinsrch=no&systemcomp=Chassis&prdrefno=&quantity=0&act=&count=0&hidSwitch=&hidIrno=

cukali
04-27-2010, 08:57 AM
every time i drive my in-law's "new" CR-V i am always impressed with the brakes. that thing stops on a freakin' dime. i'm interested to see the outcome (if any) of this. may be a good "upgrade" if possible after getting larger wheels to fit.

i wonder how much "power assist" comes into play and what additional parts would need to be swapped over from the CR-V?


Additional parts will be rotors and calipers. Buying new rotors and used calipers then bolting in. Fittings and such are the same. Will use pads from the CRV of course.

Rotor diameter and power assist make a big difference. But putting on larger rotors alone makes a big difference. Petal force decreases, brake start time decreases, brake heat decreases, brake fade decrease, brakes wear decreases, and even though some claim it doens't, brake distance and time decreases. Take your car right now and go from 120 mph to 0 fast as you can when passing a mark. Then put oversized rotors on it a repeat. I will pay for your kit if you dont stop sooner. If you do, you pay me for my kit. I will bet anyone on that.

The faster you go, the hard it is to get tires to lock up. Maybe from 60-0 you will not notice much of a difference in distance, but I will gurantee you go from over 80-0 you will see a difference. From 120-0 and I bet your factory brakes begin fading before you stop.

Of course this is all with factory tires....but who here doesn't have grippier/wider tires on? :mcool:

Lucid Moments
04-27-2010, 11:13 AM
Repeat after me "Brake fade".


I dont think anyone said they will make you stop faster (unless I missed something), but they certainly will and do. If your a person who hard brakes only once then you will not need them. My cars fades on only the second hard braking.. do more than that and youll have a hard time stopping and end up with warped brakes. There is no solution to that except larger brakes or less braking. Cross drilled and slotted brakes look good, but only shorten time between hard braking, not brake temp during.

But what you said is true for a "one-time" stop with "same-sized-tires". Beyond that it becomes un-true.

I track my car regularly. I understand the concept of brake fade quite well. I believe the stock brakes will hold up a little longer than you seem to think they will, but you are right that they will overheat sooner or later and that a larger brake rotor will help make that point later. One other solution than the one you offered by the way is more cooling. Adding some brake ducts will also help prevent brake fade.

And you must have missed this post on the top of this page.


Bigger brakes do make our cars stop faster.Bigger rotors might not.
Look at the RSX-S & EP3 stopping distances there's a 8 foot difference 70mph -O.Our cars 40 lbs lighter yet takes longer to stop.

Finally, no matter the speed you are going the stock brakes are still capable of locking the tires. If you can't then you simply are not pressing on the pedal hard enough. Now, a larger caliper/rotor can make it so that you don't have to press the pedal as hard, but that is not the same as shortening braking distances. You can get that same effect by going with a larger master cylinder. Or lengthening the arm on the brake pedal. Or other ways that I can't think of off the top of my head right now.

Lucid Moments
04-27-2010, 11:17 AM
Honda measures them different.

Civic Si is 14". CRV is 16".

See below.

http://www.bkhondaparts.com/billkay/jsp/prddisplay.jsp?catcgry1=CIVIC&catcgry2=2005&catcgry3=3DR+SI&catcgry4=KA5MT&catcgry5=FRONT+BRAKE+%28+04-05%29&ListAll=All&vinsrch=no&systemcomp=Chassis&prdrefno=&quantity=0&act=&count=0&hidSwitch=&hidIrno=

Just out of curiosity how can you measure the diameter of a circle differently? The diameter of a circle is the length of the line through the center and touching two points on its edge. That is a pretty simple definition and hard to interperet in more than one way.

Zzyzx
04-27-2010, 11:23 AM
Repeat after me "Brake fade".


I dont think anyone said they will make you stop faster (unless I missed something), but they certainly will and do.

Eagerly awaiting the explanation on how increasing the brake torque at the rotor & caliper increases tire traction.


If you are getting brake fade, then yes; going with a larger caliper/rotor assembly can alleviate that problem. Just don't expect to have shorter stopping distances because of it.

LLH
04-27-2010, 01:30 PM
Going from Hawk hp to the ferodo DS2500 pad was a big change, right now a cant see the point of doing any more changes on my type r brake set up, exept for changing the front rotors which i hotspotted last weekend.. 3 minutes without brain activity, and voila pulsating pedal and "wheel hop" when braking :P

btw
2002-2008 accord/tsx
2002-2006 Acura RSX Type "S" - Front
2006-2007 Honda Civic Coupe Si - Front
2007 Honda Civic, Cvcc Sedan Si w/ Rear Disc - Front
2005-2006 Honda CR-V - Front
2001-2006 edm/jdm civic type r

All uses the 300mm, 25mm, 64.1mm, 47mm front brake rotors..
In norway brembo rotors for the accord cost half as much as the ones for the type r.. diffrent part number same part FTW :mmad:

Drew1d
04-27-2010, 01:47 PM
*Donning Flame Resistant Suit*

Stock EP brakes are fine. If they are in good working order, good fluid (new fluid), stock pad and rotors, the car stops great. 4 wheel disk. :) I can understand if it's a race car, where heats an issue, I could understand maybe slotted rotors, or pads that really dust out. But on a street car, stock is good.

cukali
05-18-2010, 11:25 AM
Eagerly awaiting the explanation on how increasing the brake torque at the rotor & caliper increases tire traction.


If you are getting brake fade, then yes; going with a larger caliper/rotor assembly can alleviate that problem. Just don't expect to have shorter stopping distances because of it.


No where in my post did I say anything about increased tire traction. BUT your assuming I dont have increased tire traction with 245 slicks. You also contradicted yourself...brake fade is just that..loss of stopping distance due to gases from the pad (heat). Alliviating this will shorten your stopping distance.

Eagerly awaiting an explanation on how brake fade doesn't lengthen your stopping distance and how preventing fade wont shorten it. :)

If you edit out my post, youll miss my whole statement. Remember, I created the post for a reason. My brake are underpowered and no matter how much debating you do...I still have undersized rotors for my car.

Thnx

cukali
05-18-2010, 11:28 AM
Just out of curiosity how can you measure the diameter of a circle differently? The diameter of a circle is the length of the line through the center and touching two points on its edge. That is a pretty simple definition and hard to interperet in more than one way.

Its not measuring a circle differently... its measuring a different circle. Hope this clears it up for you. Its measured to outter caliper from center. Atleast thats my guess. I will take a tape to them and see.

But as far as the numbers, thats right out of Honda Book. Asking them would probably be better since apparently no one in here knows how they are measured.

cukali
05-18-2010, 11:31 AM
*Donning Flame Resistant Suit*

Stock EP brakes are fine. If they are in good working order, good fluid (new fluid), stock pad and rotors, the car stops great. 4 wheel disk. :) I can understand if it's a race car, where heats an issue, I could understand maybe slotted rotors, or pads that really dust out. But on a street car, stock is good.

But upgrades are better.

Anyway, with a 100 mph in the 1/8th on slicks (and its a street car) on some of the little tracks I go to, stopping is a big plus. I am tired of smoking my brakes on and off the track. Our brakes pass on the safety part, but fail on the performance part. They suck imo

cukali
05-18-2010, 11:40 AM
Going from Hawk hp to the ferodo DS2500 pad was a big change, right now a cant see the point of doing any more changes on my type r brake set up, exept for changing the front rotors which i hotspotted last weekend.. 3 minutes without brain activity, and voila pulsating pedal and "wheel hop" when braking :P

btw
2002-2008 accord/tsx
2002-2006 Acura RSX Type "S" - Front
2006-2007 Honda Civic Coupe Si - Front
2007 Honda Civic, Cvcc Sedan Si w/ Rear Disc - Front
2005-2006 Honda CR-V - Front
2001-2006 edm/jdm civic type r

All uses the 300mm, 25mm, 64.1mm, 47mm front brake rotors..
In norway brembo rotors for the accord cost half as much as the ones for the type r.. diffrent part number same part FTW :mmad:

Good info right there.

I have the same problem with my rotors. Even completely facotry, they warp. I have had them turned twice and it still comes back. They are probably poorly made and possibly new factories will eliminate the problem but they get too hot on just one hard braking from 60-0. So, thats why I want to go bogger.