k20/k24

[Jrw]

i have a k20a2 head on a k24a1 bottom end. I took it to a shop to get it to start. i drove it around for a few hours then i plugged it into my laptop and it asked me to update. so i uploaded the new 2005 tsx dual basemap now my car wont start up but for a second then dies. any advice would be nice!! (I did not have the shop tune my car im not doing that until i break in my new clutch)

[lldiesel386ll]

from the hondata site
http://hondata.com/images/k-pro-dual.jpg
it looks like the map from a tsx dual basemap uses two ecus to control different necessary parameters to make the car run. my understanding is that a decent basemap to use is the type s basemap with 20% fuel added throughout the board to compensate for the extra 0.4L of displacement. mind you this is all informed speculation; any corrections or additional input would be appreciated :thumbu:

[Jrw]

thank you for your help once i get this thing running right and get tunes i will tuning to them. im going to get elite tuning tune for me i hope this solvess my problem.

[Jrw]

i purchased a new 02 sensor and the car still will not start. Ive tried to use the k24a2, k20a, k24a1 basemap and cant get it to start without stalling out after a few. Does anyone have a basemap i can use just to get it to run so i can get a tune. Thnanks for the help!!

[Deadphishy]

Just run the stock TSX base map in K manager.

its under "Other" for the engine type if you click open new calibration

Do you have an check engine lights? Check to make sure you plugged the Map sensor clip into the map sensor and not the thottle position sensor. They both use the same Little blue clip, and it is easy to switch the two and not know it. A quick test to rule out the Map sensor being the problem is to unplug it and try starting the car. If it starts, (it will run rough) then its something with the MAP, or you have the Connectors switched.

[Jrw]

yes i have a check engine light on it started and drove the other day then when i retuned home to datalog it and uploaded the new map it wouldnt start. all i replaced was the 02 sensor and uploaded the new 2005 tsx map and it wont start up. im close to saying fuck it and selling it.

[Deadphishy]

WELL? What does hondata say the CEL is?

Sell the car.....You will laugh at yourself when you figure it out. It will be something stupid like what happened to me....

I didn't plug the charge harness in all the way........ So i was getting a CEL about my knock sensor not working. And then the alternator stopped charging the battery.....

[Jrw]

battery cell, it was the 02 sensor then i replaced it. the car sometimes will start for a few seconds run really rough and then die then it wont start back up at all unless i let it sit for awhile.

[Deadphishy]

It's going to be something stupid.

When i get home i'll give you a kal to try.

When my Map sensor went bad, the car started and Idled for 20 mins, then all of a sudden wouldn't stay running longer then 2 seconds.

[Jrw]

thats my exact problem i hate it ive spent so much time and money on this thing. Also after a few attempts it wont even crank all you will hear is clicking and the lights on the dash flash quickly. thanks for the help man ive hit a wall!

[02nhbpep3]

Sounds like a problem with your charge harness if your getting that many problems. Either that or a bad ground connection. I had a bad ground from when I installed my Injen CAI and it didn't show its ugly face until a year later when I did the engine swap. Needless to say my blower motor, blinkers, headlights, hazard sigs, and about 5 other things started acting up so I started tapping/wiggleing all of my harness/ground connections until I found the problem.

**O and dont give up!!! Can't be worse than the problems I ran across... Purchased a longblock, installed it, had 2 spun main bearings, tore it down, had it machined, saved every penny I had for 8 months, put it back together, got her running again and now I LOVE everyday I drive my car!! I probably thought about selling the car 10 times or more and I glad I didn't. Keep your head up bro!

[Jrw]

i hope thats not the problem would make sense my oild pressure guage or temp guage on my cluster dont work i have to use kpro just to make sure nothing is out of wack and in the past my speed sensor would sometimes start acting funny. Shes starting to act like a girlfriend and not do anything right!!!

[02nhbpep3]

Check to make sure there is no fluid in the plug on the tranny for your speed sensor. I had water/oil/pb blaster or something in it and my speed needle would do some wild shit! Like Deadphishy said its going to be something stupid that you would never think would cause so many problems.

[Jrw]

im sure its this updated kal im using once i uploaded it the damn thing wouldnt crank. he said hes going to send me one when he gets home i will give it a shot if that doesnt work im going to have someone come take a look at it. thanks for the help guys every mistake i make which is a lot i learn something new with good advice.

[Deadphishy]

The clicking and the lights flashing is because your battery is dead. Your going to need to charge it up, or barrow a jumper box from someone.

MAke sure your laptop has version 1.4 of kmanager. Then turn off your computer. Restart kmanager and try uploading the .Kal Sometimes the upload doesn't work and the car wont start because the map is messed up.

The speedo problem is a ground problem. Happened to me after i did my swap. When things got real hot, the speedo would work all funny, then just stop. So i put an extra ground cable from the Neg terminal on my battery to a transmission bolt. Speedo problem went away.

Let me know what you get.
And you still need to tell me what kpro says your check engine light is. That is the Tab all the way to the right. "error codes"

[Deadphishy]

Give us some time, before you pay someone who has never seen Kmanager before look at it and scratch his head for a few hours.

[Jrw]

thanks to both of you i will load this map tomorrow around 2pm when im with the car and i will let you know what the deal is. I really appriciate it i have too much money in this pit to give up on her!!

[goldEp]

wow..great thread...!im looking forward for a reply from the pros.i will remember all this.im doing my swap soon.

[02nhbpep3]

thanks to both of you i will load this map tomorrow around 2pm when im with the car and i will let you know what the deal is. I really appriciate it i have too much money in this pit to give up on her!!

Anytime! EPHatch is definitely the best forum I have ever come across for actual helpful information compared to CRSX and H-tech which are both a joke.

[Deadphishy]

Yup, waiting to hear any updates on this.

[Jrw]

i assume my battery is dead when i try to start it my dash lights click rapidly im going to charge it and try again.

[Deadphishy]

The clicking and the lights flashing is because your battery is dead. Your going to need to charge it up, or barrow a jumper box from someone.

MAke sure your laptop has version 1.4 of kmanager. Then turn off your computer. Restart kmanager and try uploading the .Kal Sometimes the upload doesn't work and the car wont start because the map is messed up.

The speedo problem is a ground problem. Happened to me after i did my swap. When things got real hot, the speedo would work all funny, then just stop. So i put an extra ground cable from the Neg terminal on my battery to a transmission bolt. Speedo problem went away.

Let me know what you get.
And you still need to tell me what kpro says your check engine light is. That is the Tab all the way to the right. "error codes"


What this guy said last night:yeahthat:

[Jrw]

so i loaded the map and it sounds like it wants to start and then just sputters out. so i have a new 02 4bar map and 440cc injectors, would any of that matter or should it still start? no error codes. there is a place here near me thats telling me to check fuses, does that even sound like it could be possible? and yes you are the reason i had that assumption. the battery is only four days old. (and yet another problem).

[Deadphishy]

Hondata 4bar map? that will cause a problem........ You need to go into the .kal and click parameters, then click on Map, Then uncheck the Stock Map sensor box, and select Hondata 4 bar Map sensor. That might do it.

Battery died from cranking the motor so much. It takes a ton of power to start a car. And if the car isn't running to recharge the battery then it will die very quickly.

[Deadphishy]

Well? anything.

quick check for the Map sensor is to just unplug it.

[Jrw]

had the battery charging overnight going to test it today when i get home.

[Jrw]

what are the chances my timing jumped?

[02nhbpep3]

Slim to none

[Jrw]

damn thing still wont start battery has full charge change the map to my omni 4 bar and even unplugged it. it will crank up and die right away. when this things starts you will see tears of joy!

[Jrw]

i have someone coming to help me tomorrow after we figure it out i was post the solution. im sure you guys have already had the solution i just didnt do something right.

[Deadphishy]

So the motor Fires? but only for a second. then it dies?

It is possible it jumped timing, but it should jump enough that the motor won't start. Plus you will get a CEL for that.

You still have told us what you CEL was before.

[Jrw]

the only cells i had were low battery voltage and primary 02 since i changed the 02 i dont get anymore error codes.

[Deadphishy]

Have you checked the crank Posistion sensor, to make sure it was plugged in?

[Jrw]

Yes I unclipped them to make sure the connection was clean. Even traced the harness for loose grounds. Would a bad sensor throw a cell?

[Deadphishy]

Well, this is a situation were i would just start taking things off and check. trying different kpro maps and all that stuff. It's going to be something wierd.

Good luck tomorrow.

[Deadphishy]

Sooo........?

[Jrw]

so i was told the plug for the tps was in the wrong place and that one of the cylinders was flooded. also i need a new map sensor its not getting a reading. Damn that omni sensor wasnt cheap. So tomorrow i pick up a stock sensor for the time being and will update with anymore problems that i have. im running the stock k20a2 map. thanks for the help (stock map sensor im getting for 40$ good or bad deal?)

[Deadphishy]

if it's from Autozone it is the same OEM sensor you get from honda. Denso.

So, Like i said earlier did you have the TPS plug connected to the map sensor, and vise versa? That is what killed my map sensor.

If the car sat over night the flooded cylinder should have been fine. Just pull the plugs/ injector clips and spin it over.

[Jrw]

Dead- you were right and yes it killed my sensor. I thought I switched them back but I guess not. Good call

[Deadphishy]

Yeah, the Map sensor clip is the on the is after the Evap Clip. It goes under the TB toward the Radiator, back up and around top. With the Evap plugging in then the Map.

Good luck.

are you boosted? Just asking because you have a 4 bar map sensor, thats pretty hard core! I think the stock Map is good to 10 Psi

[Jrw]

i was and plan on going back. i just didnt have enough tq. I live in tampa florida and there are a lot of cars that float around here with hp and tq to compete you need to do both. I dont want a honda that beats the half built hondas. I want to take down the american made and evos sti and srt4. my only problem is i dont want to have to do the fuel return line. so from what ive read 400 is my limit. Who knows though enough is never enough when you get beat you always want more.

[Jrw]

Why would my map sensor read like 400 in the red.

[Deadphishy]

If the sensor is broken, then it will read crazy things. When mine was bad, it was readying 10 psi of boost at idle. You can only imagine how much fuel it was putting in. Maxed out my 480cc injectors at 900 rpm. Motor still ran ;)

[Jrw]

I can't wait to turbo this thing and get a tuned I pulled next to a viper last night and wanted to see what she could do.