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04EP3Hatch
04-27-2010, 11:10 PM
well i am sure a few of you have followed my setup and are familiar with what im using, i made 241.3hp on the 3.8 on my stock A3. It's enough to put me a nose or so ahead of bolt-on evo's and sti's. but i want to be more than a nose. I am peaking 7.8psi, so my setup is fairly efficient as it sits, i attribute it to the Kiddracing header, but.. my exhaust is still only 2.36". Now i want some opinion's from the JRSC vets and guru's. I am going to have a custom 3" made (unless i can find a greddy evoTT for cheap :mcry:) and then i am going to maxbore the throttlebody and port and extrude hone the inlet casting. now with the setup being even more free flowing, what about upping the boost? i'd imagine i may lose another 1lb or more with the new exhaust (info from crsx, guy went from 2.36 to a 3.00 and lost 2psi but gained power). would the 3.6 or 3.7 pulley be beneficial here? or just do long term damage, i want to do meth, but i dont. i dont want my engine relying on a secondary fuel source. and im not doing cams. I am taking the A3 as far as i can stretch it. anyone care to chime in, your advice is welcome!

Sucka
04-28-2010, 12:03 AM
i heard 3.6 pulley will just make the charger blow more hot air you might want to run the meth with the 3.6 pulley if you decide to go that route.

BlownSi05
04-28-2010, 05:30 AM
Between the more restrictive flow of the A3 and the EP JRSC manifold, I really don't think you are going to get much more out of it. Cams would help some to open the flow in the A3 head, and fitting the blower under the hood with the RSX JRSC manifold would offer a little better flow. The gains from the manifold change I can only guess at though, I just know it flows better and is more efficient.

The first thing I would do would be to look at a good water/meth kit. Running the 3.8" pulley as it is now, I can guarantee your inlet temps. are pushing close to over 200 degrees. Slapping the kit on won't give immediate gains, but the timing you should be able to put back in by having a cooler air charge should net you some gains. I would also look into the MAXBORE TB and have the charger inlet port matched with it.

Unfortunately, with the A3 you are going to reach it's limit with the JRSC pretty quickly, but these things I think would be your next step. My goal was to take the A3 as far as I could with the JRSC, but I lost interest and patients which is why I stopped work on it and bought the new car...lol.

MugenReplica
04-28-2010, 07:25 AM
Should I bring my 3.7" pulley to Carlisle, so you can try it out? I have it around here somewhere???

With a 3.0" exhaust, you will definitely lose a little of that low end torque, even with the supercharger on the K20a3. You'll scrape everywhere if you are only lowered 1.5"s. It will be LOUD with everything except the twin loop. Even the twin loop is slightly loud at times. I know this, because I've been running a few different 3.0" exhausts since 2006. But, you will LOVE the sound when you lay into the throttle!

If you insist on a 3.0" exhaust, just buy a cheapy no name brand. If it gets bent or damaged, you won't feel badly when it happens.
Cheap stainless 3.0" exhaust (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Catback-Exhaust-Acura-RSX-Type-S-02-07-04-05-3-Turbo-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2eacaa9ef1QQitemZ20046 5358577QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccesso ries)

*Maxbore will port your inlet housing and your thottlebody for about $200 if I remember what he quoted me. Just have him do it and it's all done and in one place.

04EP3Hatch
04-28-2010, 07:36 AM
Between the more restrictive flow of the A3 and the EP JRSC manifold, I really don't think you are going to get much more out of it. Cams would help some to open the flow in the A3 head, and fitting the blower under the hood with the RSX JRSC manifold would offer a little better flow. The gains from the manifold change I can only guess at though, I just know it flows better and is more efficient.

The first thing I would do would be to look at a good water/meth kit. Running the 3.8" pulley as it is now, I can guarantee your inlet temps. are pushing close to over 200 degrees. Slapping the kit on won't give immediate gains, but the timing you should be able to put back in by having a cooler air charge should net you some gains. I would also look into the MAXBORE TB and have the charger inlet port matched with it.

Unfortunately, with the A3 you are going to reach it's limit with the JRSC pretty quickly, but these things I think would be your next step. My goal was to take the A3 as far as I could with the JRSC, but I lost interest and patients which is why I stopped work on it and bought the new car...lol.

i know :( this motor seems to reach it's limit with anything quickly lol I am definately going to maxbore the TB and inlet casting with a 3" exhaust, and see what comes out of that. depending on how much boost i lose, maybe ill buy MugenReplica's 3.7 and get a meth kit from my tuner, he's got basic kits for 300$


Should I bring my 3.7" pulley to Carlisle, so you can try it out? I have it around here somewhere???

With a 3.0" exhaust, you will definitely lose a little of that low end torque, even with the supercharger on the K20a3. You'll scrape everywhere if you are only lowered 1.5"s. It will be LOUD with everything except the twin loop. Even the twin loop is slightly loud at times. I know this, because I've been running a few different 3.0" exhausts since 2006. But, you will LOVE the sound when you lay into the throttle!

If you insist on a 3.0" exhaust, just buy a cheapy no name brand. If it gets bent or damaged, you won't feel badly when it happens.
Cheap stainless 3.0" exhaust (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Catback-Exhaust-Acura-RSX-Type-S-02-07-04-05-3-Turbo-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2eacaa9ef1QQitemZ20046 5358577QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccesso ries)

*Maxbore will port your inlet housing and your thottlebody for about $200 if I remember what he quoted me. Just have him do it and it's all done and in one place.

yea if you could bring that pulley that'd be fantastic, i will buy it from you just for future sake, but also.. what about skunk2 Turbo 1 cams? there's a set for sale in the classifieds for 150$ bnib

MugenReplica
04-28-2010, 08:07 AM
From my understanding, the Skunk2 K20a3 Turbo cams don't have the proper overlap for a supercharged motor. You'd be better off with their NA Stage I cams.

I'll try to track it down. I have five pulley's now and I'm not the most organized person in the world, so I kinda have them all strewn about my work area.

Ba82Ep3
04-28-2010, 08:10 AM
If you do go to the bigger exhaust and want to bring back the lost boost, use the newer Accord crank pully instead of a smaller SC pulley. Try to get as much psi as you can on the existing SC pully, to avoid going smaller and losing belt wrap. IMO, a 3.7 or 3.8 CP should be the limit for a daily driven setup, but i always build/tune for the safe side. If you look into getting the Accord CP, you do not need the spacer behind the Accord crank pully that is shown in the pix. The newer K24 uses a reluctor wheel instead of a crank sensor trigger.

DEFINITELY Maxbore the TB and SC inlet. The 2 lobe k20a3/k24a1 cams arent bad for the JRSC, and you may only gain a little more power going to a boost cam. I would say if youre gonna go the cam route (and get the most whp for your $), pick up a set of a2 cams, four more exhaust rockers, and a Skunk2 adjustable EX cam gear. You can find used a2 cams for 150$ and the power gain with the VTEC killer setup is above and beyond what any stg1 cam would give you. If you already have 240whp, then you could easily see 270whp.

After all those changes, the only thing holding you back is the JRSC EP manifold, the a3 head casting, and your lack of compression. I know you said you wanted to stay all a3, but its actually fairly cheap/easy to bump compression with OEM a2 pistons and rings (i would still be reasonable with your rev limit, the idea is to bump compression and make more power WITHOUT HAVING TO rev the piss out of it), and a CRV head can be found really cheap. Changing the JRSC manifold will be costly by comparison.

MugenReplica
04-28-2010, 08:11 AM
Correction, just found the 3.7" sitting aside at my desk at work. I thought that was where my 3.0" pulley was? Now where the hell did I put the 3.0"?

MugenReplica
04-28-2010, 08:13 AM
If you do go to the bigger exhaust and want to bring back the lost boost, use the newer Accord crank pully instead of a smaller SC pulley. Try to get as much psi as you can on the existing SC pully, to avoid going smaller and losing belt wrap. IMO, a 3.7 or 3.8 CP should be the limit for a daily driven setup, but i always build/tune for the safe side. If you look into getting the Accord CP, you do not need the spacer behind the Accord crank pully that is shown in the pix. The newer K24 uses a reluctor wheel instead of a crank sensor trigger.

DEFINITELY Maxbore the TB and SC inlet. The 2 lobe k20a3/k24a1 cams arent bad for the JRSC, and you may only gain a little more power going to a boost cam. I would say if youre gonna go the cam route (and get the most whp for your $), pick up a set of a2 cams, four more exhaust rockers, and a Skunk2 adjustable EX cam gear. You can find used a2 cams for 150$ and the power gain with the VTEC killer setup is above and beyond what any stg1 cam would give you. If you already have 240whp, then you could easily see 270whp.

After all those changes, the only thing holding you back is the JRSC EP manifold, the a3 head casting, and your lack of compression. I know you said you wanted to stay all a3, but its actually fairly cheap/easy to bump compression with OEM a2 pistons and rings (i would still be reasonable with your rev limit, the idea is to bump compression and make more power WITHOUT HAVING TO rev the piss out of it), and a CRV head can be found really cheap. Changing the JRSC manifold will be costly by comparison.

I've always loved the way you think out your setups. Do what ^ says......

Gilmour
04-28-2010, 09:49 AM
Yeah larger Crank Pulley is a great idea, as is the K24a1 head with vtec killer cams.

K20A EP3
04-28-2010, 02:35 PM
How about a 50 shot of go go juice? Would def cool the SC off a lil and put u a couple cars up on a STI. Even if u do decide to do a a2 head swap u'll want more in like a month lol its never ending. But yeah port the TB and SC, k24 cp, then exhaust

If i do anything else it'll be the newer k24 cp and water meth. Gotta do something for cooling, summer time is here and those 100deg days are gonna be hell on the EP

04EP3Hatch
04-28-2010, 03:06 PM
If you do go to the bigger exhaust and want to bring back the lost boost, use the newer Accord crank pully instead of a smaller SC pulley. Try to get as much psi as you can on the existing SC pully, to avoid going smaller and losing belt wrap. IMO, a 3.7 or 3.8 CP should be the limit for a daily driven setup, but i always build/tune for the safe side. If you look into getting the Accord CP, you do not need the spacer behind the Accord crank pully that is shown in the pix. The newer K24 uses a reluctor wheel instead of a crank sensor trigger.

DEFINITELY Maxbore the TB and SC inlet. The 2 lobe k20a3/k24a1 cams arent bad for the JRSC, and you may only gain a little more power going to a boost cam. I would say if youre gonna go the cam route (and get the most whp for your $), pick up a set of a2 cams, four more exhaust rockers, and a Skunk2 adjustable EX cam gear. You can find used a2 cams for 150$ and the power gain with the VTEC killer setup is above and beyond what any stg1 cam would give you. If you already have 240whp, then you could easily see 270whp.

After all those changes, the only thing holding you back is the JRSC EP manifold, the a3 head casting, and your lack of compression. I know you said you wanted to stay all a3, but its actually fairly cheap/easy to bump compression with OEM a2 pistons and rings (i would still be reasonable with your rev limit, the idea is to bump compression and make more power WITHOUT HAVING TO rev the piss out of it), and a CRV head can be found really cheap. Changing the JRSC manifold will be costly by comparison.

thank you for the advice my friend! i will look into that for sure, but which accord? the LX or EX, the engines are different, not 100% sure if the crank pulley is different but it's worth me asking. But do you think it would be "safe" to go and up the boost again? even with the ported TB and inlet casting and 3" exhaust, i'd imagine i'd gain psi with the TB and inlet casting, and lose it again with the 3" exhaust. i mean peaking at 7.8psi on the 3.8 is low, but a good thing as per my setup being flowing

Ba82Ep3
04-28-2010, 09:15 PM
How about a 50 shot of go go juice? Would def cool the SC off a lil and put u a couple cars up on a STI. Even if u do decide to do a a2 head swap u'll want more in like a month lol its never ending. But yeah port the TB and SC, k24 cp, then exhaust

If i do anything else it'll be the newer k24 cp and water meth. Gotta do something for cooling, summer time is here and those 100deg days are gonna be hell on the EP

Its addictive aint it?!?! :mtongue: We NEED to get up SOON!! Saturday? LMK. I got bucked at work this past Sunday and got off hella late. This fast approaching warm weather makes me nervous...


thank you for the advice my friend! i will look into that for sure, but which accord? the LX or EX, the engines are different, not 100% sure if the crank pulley is different but it's worth me asking. But do you think it would be "safe" to go and up the boost again? even with the ported TB and inlet casting and 3" exhaust, i'd imagine i'd gain psi with the TB and inlet casting, and lose it again with the 3" exhaust. i mean peaking at 7.8psi on the 3.8 is low, but a good thing as per my setup being flowing

k24z CP Honda part #

13810-R40-A01

As far as the TB/inlet casting and exhaust goes, think of it more as a flow modification, not a volumetric modification. An engine is essentially an air pump, and modifying its 'in' and 'out's would let the engine work more efficiently. There is a limit though, both where intake and exhaust 'in' and 'out' flow modifications become counterproductive... there IS such a thing as too big per the setup.

5-7psi with a JRSC isnt a lot of boost. If you look at KPro tables during a datalog, columns 9 and 10 arent often hit N/A. You spend most of your time in columns 7-9 WOT in an N/A setup. One k20a (w/RBC) ive tuned on flickered back and forth from columns 8-9 to 9-10 and hitting column 10 right before redline (8600), but KPro was still pulling its info primarily from column 9. 5psi saturates columns 9 and 10 and touches on column 11...

The point of all this is, 7-8psi isnt a lot of boost... and can really be run safely on any well tuned stock bottom end. Adding 2psi more isnt a big deal, as long as its not HOT air. I didnt see you mention where you made your max psi... 7500rpm? More? Theres nothing saying you cant make more psi at a lower rpm. I would suggest setting your rev limit to 7500, and work to make 8psi at 7400rpm on a warm day (80-90degrees). Tune on that amount of boost, and you will have GREAT power year round with a fat TQ band. Yep, lets not forget TQ. :mbiggrin:

If you stay around 8-9psi with a reasonably cool intake charge, then i would be content with that and realize the limitations of the JRSC. It was designed as a mass production power adder, and unlike turbo or rotrex SC setups... it can only go so far. If you want more with your JRSC, then you need to run a setup with more displacement AND more compression... but remember, more compression has its limits on pump gas.

K20A EP3 above (Chris) has a JRSC (9-10psi) on a JDM k20a. Its a nasty bitch (what, it took a 500+whp boosted Stang to take him?!? <-lol)... and thats just on a basemap. So you have PLENTY of potential under your hood... :mwink:

04EP3Hatch
04-29-2010, 04:07 AM
Its addictive aint it?!?! :mtongue: We NEED to get up SOON!! Saturday? LMK. I got bucked at work this past Sunday and got off hella late. This fast approaching warm weather makes me nervous...



k24z CP Honda part #

13810-R40-A01

As far as the TB/inlet casting and exhaust goes, think of it more as a flow modification, not a volumetric modification. An engine is essentially an air pump, and modifying its 'in' and 'out's would let the engine work more efficiently. There is a limit though, both where intake and exhaust 'in' and 'out' flow modifications become counterproductive... there IS such a thing as too big per the setup.

5-7psi with a JRSC isnt a lot of boost. If you look at KPro tables during a datalog, columns 9 and 10 arent often hit N/A. You spend most of your time in columns 7-9 WOT in an N/A setup. One k20a (w/RBC) ive tuned on flickered back and forth from columns 8-9 to 9-10 and hitting column 10 right before redline (8600), but KPro was still pulling its info primarily from column 9. 5psi saturates columns 9 and 10 and touches on column 11...

The point of all this is, 7-8psi isnt a lot of boost... and can really be run safely on any well tuned stock bottom end. Adding 2psi more isnt a big deal, as long as its not HOT air. I didnt see you mention where you made your max psi... 7500rpm? More? Theres nothing saying you cant make more psi at a lower rpm. I would suggest setting your rev limit to 7500, and work to make 8psi at 7400rpm on a warm day (80-90degrees). Tune on that amount of boost, and you will have GREAT power year round with a fat TQ band. Yep, lets not forget TQ. :mbiggrin:

If you stay around 8-9psi with a reasonably cool intake charge, then i would be content with that and realize the limitations of the JRSC. It was designed as a mass production power adder, and unlike turbo or rotrex SC setups... it can only go so far. If you want more with your JRSC, then you need to run a setup with more displacement AND more compression... but remember, more compression has its limits on pump gas.

K20A EP3 above (Chris) has a JRSC (9-10psi) on a JDM k20a. Its a nasty bitch (what, it took a 500+whp boosted Stang to take him?!? <-lol)... and thats just on a basemap. So you have PLENTY of potential under your hood... :mwink:

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs466.snc3/25599_111544075543053_100000623832794_138652_12833 74_n.jpg

i figured i'd post my sheet up so you can take a look at it, i would run a solid climbing boost line all the way to rev limiter and i would peak at 7.8psi, but as for everything right now, i think i may just do a 3" exhaust and the ported TB and inlet casting and see where my gains are, i would get retuned obviously. And i'll leave it like that for a while. I'd imagine those mods could see an extra 10whp or so, in the top end, i'd say 5800-limiter, no?

BlownSi05
04-29-2010, 04:43 AM
K20A EP3 above (Chris) has a JRSC (9-10psi) on a JDM k20a. Its a nasty bitch (what, it took a 500+whp boosted Stang to take him?!? <-lol)... and thats just on a basemap. So you have PLENTY of potential under your hood... :mwink:

Can I bring my Stang to run?:mangel::mbiggrin:

Damn I would love to take a ride in that car...lol:mtongue: I can only imagine how fun that thing is!:meek:

Edit: Sorry about thread jacking:mconfused::mangel:

Ba82Ep3
04-29-2010, 08:02 AM
i figured i'd post my sheet up so you can take a look at it, i would run a solid climbing boost line all the way to rev limiter and i would peak at 7.8psi, but as for everything right now, i think i may just do a 3" exhaust and the ported TB and inlet casting and see where my gains are, i would get retuned obviously. And i'll leave it like that for a while. I'd imagine those mods could see an extra 10whp or so, in the top end, i'd say 5800-limiter, no?

The TB and inlet casting should show gains pretty much across the board. To see the MOST from the TB and inlet mod you would need to be tuned for sure, but unless you just want to see individual gains for that mod alone, youre kinda throwin $ away that could have bought your cams and 4 EX rockers for ya. The OEM a2 cam and rocker swap with the TB and inlet mod combined would REALLY be worth tuning for. Wouldnt you like to see a combined 30-40whp increase? :mtongue:

I dunno if you do all your own work or not, but dont shy away from installing the VTEC killer cam setup. It does come with a few things you should do "while youre at it", like timing chain replacement and checking the condition of your TCT... but changing those things really save you from potential costlier repairs down the road, and should be done as a maintenance thing anyways.

There IS discussion about changing valve springs when you swap the cams, but a few still use the stock k20a3/k24a1 valvesprings and so far... with no issues. Me personally, i would change them at least to OEM s2k springs. Again, to err on the side of safety. If you need pix or info on whats needed to make the Killer setup work, hit me up. Theres a couple of guys on here that have done it, several on k20a.org, and have nothing but good things to say about it. My personal setup isnt in the car yet, and the head is prepped but in pieces, but it wouldnt be a big deal to assemble it so you can see what you wanna see. Just LMK.

Ba82Ep3
04-29-2010, 08:17 AM
Can I bring my Stang to run?:mangel::mbiggrin:

Damn I would love to take a ride in that car...lol:mtongue: I can only imagine how fun that thing is!:meek:

Edit: Sorry about thread jacking:mconfused::mangel:

Yeah, he doesnt have the TQ a k24 has with the JRSC, which isnt actually a bad thing in his case, but 5krpm and up is retarded. It doesnt stop pullin. Even with the ITR tranny/LSD, it still TQ steers in 4th, having to lift a little to keep it under control. Trust me, it pegs the speedo QUICK :meek::meek: Not Weltall quick, but pretty damn quick. lol

1GR8EP3
04-29-2010, 08:35 AM
I say vtec kill it... Ba has alot of info on it and I used alot of it as well haha... If your trying to get the best bang for your buck stay with oem parts and add the meth kit plus a retune. Im sure you would be happy with the results. I also see 270-280 very possible with the use of a2 cams.

On a side note I used a2 intake springs on the intake and exhaust... but you will also need the a2 seats to make them work.

04EP3Hatch
05-01-2010, 11:15 PM
soooo should i do the meth first? or do my tb/inletcasting/3.7plly/3" exhaust first then get meth later

skoolnu
05-02-2010, 02:55 PM
we have pretty much the same setups.... and my next step is prob water/meth. 570. scranton area? When you leaving for Calisle? cause my and my homie are gonna be comin right thu on 81 around 3ish on friday if you wanna roll. but were stayin in harrisburg friday, so well break off early.

04EP3Hatch
05-02-2010, 09:04 PM
we have pretty much the same setups.... and my next step is prob water/meth. 570. scranton area? When you leaving for Calisle? cause my and my homie are gonna be comin right thu on 81 around 3ish on friday if you wanna roll. but were stayin in harrisburg friday, so well break off early.

yea but im prolly going to run either 100% meth, or C16 through the kit. 570 as in milford, matamoras area, but i have to pass through scranton yea, but im leaving earlyyyy as hell. my crew likes to haul ass, im not down for that. so im leaving early with 2 kids with short gearing and were cruising 65 :)

&REY
05-03-2010, 07:44 AM
Would be sick if you installed aftercooler, I don't think it has been done on EP3.

Canuck Civic
05-03-2010, 12:19 PM
Would be sick if you installed aftercooler, I don't think it has been done on EP3.

I don't think it's possible with an EP3 manifold. Another guy on here is in the process on a DC5 manifold and so am I. I won't finish it till probably August though.

todaamann
06-28-2010, 04:59 PM
subscribed! i'm looking at getting a jrsc-r real quick here, and this is so helpful! ... i wish i was as smart as ba82ep3

Ba82Ep3
06-30-2010, 05:34 PM
I have a small percentage of the knowledge you can find here on EPHatch. lol Ive been busy with summer semester and havent had the time to get on here much anymore...

speedking604
07-07-2010, 12:10 AM
you need watermethanol kit with that thing and slap 3.7" jrsc pulley. end of story!!!

Canuck Civic
07-07-2010, 01:28 PM
Why can't you go 3.4" the RSX guys do it on the even larger k24 crank pulley. Should be close to 300 then I would think.

04EP3Hatch
07-08-2010, 04:19 AM
you need watermethanol kit with that thing and slap 3.7" jrsc pulley. end of story!!!

i knowwww :( just the meth alone!


Why can't you go 3.4" the RSX guys do it on the even larger k24 crank pulley. Should be close to 300 then I would think.

ehhh i dunno, my blower would prolly explode from being overspun, thats a lot of spinning

Canuck Civic
07-08-2010, 01:38 PM
The blower is the same m62 so with the 3.4 and our crank pulley the blower spins at like 13,500. Miata owners with the m62 blower have been spinning it to 20,000. I would only go as high as 15-17,000.

You would need to spray or have an aftercooler because you probably wouldn't make more power with all the heat you would produce.

K20A EP3
07-08-2010, 03:01 PM
Tomorrow im gonna put the new 2.4 accord crank pulley on, im hoping to be around 10psi. im using the 3.8 with a older k24 CP, making 8.5psi at 8,500. desperatly need watermeth