P1259 - Tried Lots, still having issues!

[CDM 98 ITR]

Hey guys,

2003 EP3
Stock Engine
KTuned Fuel Rail, stock injectors

P1259 - VTEC system malfunction (intermittent)

- Just replaced the entire Spool Valve assembly
- Changed Oil (Amsoil 5W-30) & Filter - oil level is perfect
- Cleared code

No dice. Engine light still came on, P1259.

However, the ONLY time I get the code is when the car is on an incline/decline. On the way back from getting the Spool Valve installed, I was on a pretty intense incline when it threw the code. Before that, there is a large hill on my way to work, and it threw the code in the same place every day.

I have no clue what to do next. I know the A3 is very picky with oil level, but it's perfect. I'm loosing pressure somewhere, but I don't know where.

Any insight?

[HondaFreak]

Per the helms manual:
check for poor connections or loose terminals at vtec solenoind valve, vtec oil pressure switch and at ECM

so it's either going to be vtec oil pressure switch
or
vtec solenoid valve
or
a wire connecting those things to the wiring harness. I doubt the ECM has gone bad.

Christian

[CDM 98 ITR]

Thanks, Christian.

I did go the route of the Helms manual to start, and I'm still at a loss. As stated, I've replaced the entire Spool Valve (yesterday) with a brand new oem part. Number 4 in the below diagram:

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/catimgs/14s5s01_e1001.png

So this means new VTEC Solenoid, New VTEC Oil Pressure Switch, clean mesh screen, fresh oil to spec on the dipstick, and new oil filter.

The problem is intermittent. I can go a day or two without producing P1259, then generally when I am on a decline/incline (car is not level), I throw the code. When I am not producing the code, VTEC works as it should. The code will clear in a day or two, and after the initial CEL, the next time I start my car I will still display the CEL, but my revs are not limited to 4K anymore.

So if the Helm's logic is correct, I'm either looking for a short in the wire to the ECU, or a bad ECU. This is already a pain in the ass!

For some reason I keep thinking the oil level has something to do with it. I throw the code on the same hill on my way to work almost every day. It's like clockworks. I'm generally braking as well.

This one is weird.

[HondaFreak]

I wish I was an electronic guru, but I have NO CLUE how to trace wires useing a multimeter. And I REALLY need to learn how. I have a o2 heater circuit that's out on my car as well.

Hmmm oil level is fine. Areyou filling the oil to the top line? I wonder if it would be worth almost "overfilling" the oil to see if maybe it's a pickup issue. Did this just start or has this always been happening?
I see some steep hills at the track and never have thrown a code or lost pressure, though I fill my oil to the top line. I'm going to look through the book again and stew on this one.

Christian

[CDM 98 ITR]

Thanks again for the help, Christian.

I'm no electrical engineer either, so you're not alone there! I can use a volt meter for basic functions, but I don't own one. Maybe it's about time as you said ...

I just got the car about 7-8 weeks ago, and it's been happening since day one. Sometimes I get a week with no code, sometimes I can't go a day without it.

The oil is right between the two dots on the dipstick. A pickup issue is seeming to be more and more likely due to the nature of how the car throws the code. As I said in my previous post, I can almost pinpoint the exact time the CEL is going to go on as I descend down a hill, and when it came on yesterday, I was going up a hill. I'm never leaning into the throttle when it happens either. I'm either in neutral, coasting to a stop, or gently braking as I'm descending down a decline. Oil pump maybe?

Don't want to rule out the wiring quite yet, but that might be a job for my mechanic. As far as I can tell, the wires that go into the solenoid and the oil switch are fine (no obvious scoring, no traces of shorts), but if it goes into the main harness at any point, I'm lost.

Appreciate the feedback.

[HondaFreak]

I thought about the oil pump, but I doubt it. I doubt it because it's chain driven and if it were the issue it would happen on flat ground at WOT or in VTEC.
It might be worth the extra 1/2 to 3/4 quart to see if it's a pickup issue. Try running the motor for a few minutes, then measure the oil. It may show "over full" at rest after a while, but when it's hot or been running it might show perfect at the top dot.

The only other thing I can think of would be a leak in a gasket at the oil pump causing a loss of pressure and or cavitation. It might be sucking air. But why it would happen at an angle only doesn't make sense. There's no oil squirters on an a3, there's no oil cooler either. Try topping it off.
The only other thing I could imagine is maybe the pickup is clogged or damaged.

Christian

[CDM 98 ITR]

Thanks again, Christian.

You bring up some good points regarding the possibility of the oil pump, and you're absolutely right in saying that it would throw the code at WOT, or when VTEC is engaged. I can say with the utmost certainty that it has never thrown a code while in either of those scenarios.

Regarding a leak at the gasket, where would the oil leak to? Would I see it anywhere?

I had the car up in the air just the other day and I didn't see any damage to the oil pan, but then again, I wasn't looking for it per se. Will definitely explore the possibility of a clogged or damaged pickup.

For now, I think I'm going to take your advice and throw another 1/2 L of oil into her and see what happens. I've had the car back for a few days now, and I've only seen the code once when I was going up that hill (this is much better than previously). I do have a circuit day coming up on the 1st of July, and I want to make sure this issue is remedied before I go pounding on the motor. The rest of the car is tip-top ... brand new transmission fluid/brake fluid/tires/brakes, all ready to rock.

[talonXracer]

With it being a actual angle related issue, I am inclined to say a oil pump issue of some sort.

I have seen a Kswap that the owner hit the oil pan on a speed bump or something and this impacted the pumps pickup. If additional oil causes the CEL to not appear as often, then there is a oil level issue, pup pickup, dip stick, oil pan squash etc.

[CDM 98 ITR]

Thanks for the input.

I'll inspect the oil pan for any damage this evening and report back.

If no damage is evident, than is a pickup issue still feasible? I'm not at all familiar troubleshooting this section of the motor. Is P1259 the only code that deals with a loss of oil pressure, or is there one specific to the oil pump?

Thanks for any feedback.

[HondaFreak]

Well the oil pump is behind the chain case. And the chain case is sealed. No, if there was some sort of leak you probobly would not see it. I just think it's a reach because the oil would have to go somewhere. I don't recall if that chain case connects to the oil pan or not. I would think it does. I just don't see how it could be the pump itself. It's also possible there's a tensioner issue, but again I doubt that gravity at BOTH angles (incline and decline) would do the same thing since the chain doesn't make a full circle around the oil pump gear.

This is a tough one to trace since all the mechanical stuff is behind other parts. Talon may right about it being the pump, it could be loose off the block just slightly and that would cause a vaccumme and cavitation. That's prolly the easiest thing to get at. Though it's not easy when the motor is in the car. I've done it swapping cams and oh what a pain. I'm gonna look around some more.

Christian

[iDom]

Don't mean to revive an old thread, but, damn.. This is exactly what's happening to my car as well.

I took off the solenoid and checked for continuity with all the sensors/switches/whatever and they all checked out fine. I changed my oil, got the oil levels to perfect. It was on for a little bit, then went away and stayed off for about a week and a half. This past weekend I parked my car at a friends house all night, on a slant (ditch type of thing) and as soon as I turned the car on, the code was back.

I don't get it. But, I do know it's ***sing me off.. I tried to diagnose it as much as I could by myself, but I don't have all the tools required to do a full run down.

Did you ever find out what was wrong with your car? I considered replacing everything, but if it was a mechanical thing and something was just plain old broke, it would never go on and off. Or so I would think..? I strongly believe it's an electrical problem, I just have no idea what or where..

I'm beginning to think the only cure will be an engine swap.... :mrolleyes:

[rufiogeezee]

im sorry for being on the late train, i just recently started throwing the code p1258 which is the ELD, drove it around til the weekend, got busy, never replaced the ELD, and now throwing a p1259. v-tec will not engage, as per the codes definition, vtec malfunction. so im guessing that its a short in the ELD wiring somewhere. if anyone has ever had this roblem that i didnt search yet here on ephatch, please feel free to clue me in. As of right now im waiting on taxes 9should be tomorrow or the next couple days) and i will be on my way to replacing both the solenoid and ELD together, as well as the chain, water pump, and any other necessary tune-up requirements.

[Eddie Murphy]

I still don't see a quick fix or a pinpointed culprit for this issue... Any further help would be appreciated, thanks.
So far this is what I see:
P1259 = a LOT of diag. Usually a clogged VTEC solenoid valve: (15810-RAA-A03 VALVE ASSY., SPOOL $92.04) or a faulty VTEC oil pressure switch: (37250-PNE-G01 SWITCH ASSY., VALVE TIMING OILPRESSURE $53.88).

Download the service manual.
Search for VTEC system malfunction.
There is a complete section in this manual on how to troubleshoot the VTEC system.
This code is pretty extensive and can be caused by a number of things. The most common would be low oil, however I have seen cars with faulty VTEC pressure switches to faulty VTC actuators.
The best thing to do would be to read the service manual and diagnose the problem yourself, or bring the car to a qualified Honda/Acura mechanic.

Reset ECU by removing both battery cables for 5 min. Hook back up and turn car on if cell pops up at idle you have a bad pressure switch if it comes on after 4500 rpm suspect a bad vtec solenoid.

Locate the Variable Timing Electronic Control (VTEC) pressure switch on the end of the cylinder head. Honda has had problems with the VTEC oil pressure switch. On this vehicle, the VTEC oil pressure switch can fail at any RPM. The VTEC oil switch is normally closed, and grounds the reference voltage from the Engine Control Module (ECM) on the Blue/Black (BLU/BLK) wire. If the code sets at idle-2500 RPM and the Brown/Yellow wire has a good ground, then suspect a faulty VTEC oil pressure switch. At approximately 2500-4000 RPM and when driving the vehicle, the VTEC system should turn on. To turn on the system, the ECM energizes the VTEC Solenoid valve and it allows oil pressure into the intake valve rocker arms, the oil pressure opens the VTEC oil pressure switch so the Engine Control Module (ECM) can verify that the VTEC did turn on correctly. The code will set at idle to 2500 RPM if the reference voltage is not grounded. The code will set above 2500-4000 RPM if the VTEC oil switch does not open. If the code sets at 2500-4000 RPM or higher, the problem can be a low oil level or pressure, or a malfunction in the VTEC assembly