DD and track car setup

[arthur]

Hi, im currently runing in a track event. My current setup is almost stock:

progress springs
front camber bolts
rear SPC camber arms
rear progress sway bar (22mm) with tie bar
hawk hps brake pads
OBX RH
K pro

I need any sugestions about how can I improve my handling in the track. Maybe some dampers, but dont know which. any sugestion is highly apreciated. What camber setup is a good base to start with. im currently runing with a -1.2 camber in front and in the rear.

Please give me your input, how can i improve my track handling.

[SHG_EasyE]

Handling is really the last thing you need to worry about when doing your first track event. With decent tires our cars can be plenty of fun on the track with stock suspension when driven properly.

What you do need to worry about is competent brake pads and fluid. Your hawk HPS wont be sufficient unless youre cupcaking it. You want at the very minimum HP Plus, but I would recommend Hawk DTC-60. Fluid should be a high temp fluid to avoid boiling. ATE Super blue, wilwood 570, Motul RBF 600 are all good choices. Without a good brake setup youll be kicking yourself for not doing it when you cant finish a 20 minute session without brake fade.

Also, tires tires tires! Before you go dropping coin on suspension you should pick up some decent tires. Hankook RS3, dunlop z1, Falken Azenis are all capable of track duty while still netting 20-25k miles on the street.

Hope this helps, and have fun at your first track event :msmile:

[HondaFreak]

^^^
Agreed.
Your stock brakes are not going to cut it. I went through rotors in 5 track days. The first time I went out I had massive brake fade. And at Infineon, turn 11 is a wall. Not a good time to loose brakes. ATE is what I run, Falken Azenis are good. Hawk blue's are a great pad for the fronts. Hawk blacks are great for the rears.
If you get brake fade, just back off for a lap they'll come back. I'm still running OEM suspension. So I wouldn't worry about suspension yet. Have fun and hit those burms.

Christian

[SHG_EasyE]

^^^
Agreed.
Your stock brakes are not going to cut it. I went through rotors in 5 track days. The first time I went out I had massive brake fade. And at Infineon, turn 11 is a wall. Not a good time to loose brakes. ATE is what I run, Falken Azenis are good. Hawk blue's are a great pad for the fronts. Hawk blacks are great for the rears.
If you get brake fade, just back off for a lap they'll come back. I'm still running OEM suspension. So I wouldn't worry about suspension yet. Have fun and hit those burms.

Christian

Did you get fade with the Hawk Blues? I run DTC-60 front and Porterfield R4 rear and had no brake fade issues. Blues are a lower temp pad, My girlfreind had big fade issues with her EVO running the Blues. I think they are better suited to sub 2600 lb cars.

[HondaFreak]

Did you get fade with the Hawk Blues? I run DTC-60 front and Porterfield R4 rear and had no brake fade issues. Blues are a lower temp pad, My girlfreind had big fade issues with her EVO running the Blues. I think they are better suited to sub 2600 lb cars.

No, I was running powerslops and hawk blacks with OEM brake fluid. When I changed to hawk blues and ATE superblue with the powerslops, no more fade. Though as I mentioned I literally DESTROYED my rotors in no time at all. Now I'm running Axxis ultimates (street pads) on my Stoptechs with ATE, no problems at all. Hawk blacks on the rears with the 10.9 Fastbrakes kit. The blues are awesome, but they EAT rotors fast.

Christian

[SHG_EasyE]

Yeah, my setup with the DTC-60's and Motul RBF 600 is great. I run cheapo Rotors on my RSX-S brakes and the rotors are perfectly fine. I just swap pads at the track and throw my project mu's back on for the drive home.

[EpThreeD]

I'de also suggest going though a class/drivers coarse etc.

Have fun

[SHG_EasyE]

I'de also suggest going though a class/drivers coarse etc.

Have fun

Most organizations include a school and require an instructor if youre a novice. If the event youre thinking of doing doesnt do this I would look elsewhere.

[arthur]

Thanks for the sugestions. The track is really short, and the race is divided in 2 hits, 8 laps each. My best time yet is 1.42.975. The best in my class is about 1 second less, with a sr20de. the brake pads im running now are actually the HP-Plus. The thing with the tires is that i cant use a tire with a TW lower than 220, that is why i use the Kumho Ecsta MX. The brake fluid I use is the ATE dot4. I do suffer of some brake fade. After each hit, are so hot that smoke comes out of them. Dont know if taht is bad or not.
Anyway Ill try some new brake pads, on stock rotors, and will see how that goes. how about tire pressure, whats your starting pressure?

[HondaFreak]

30 front 32 rear COLD.

Christian

[arthur]

This sunday i went to the track. The setup is the same as before. When the track was dry i was able to do a 1:40.80 which was the best in my class. That was in the quali, then at the race it starter raining really hard, and had lots of brake fade. I finished 4 out of a 15 cars.
What things should i change after each race? should i change the brake fluid?

[SHG_EasyE]

30 front 32 rear COLD.

Christian

I start at 32f 36r to get hot pressures at about 36f 38-40r. But tire pressure are totally personal preference, and optimum pressures also differ with each tire.


This sunday i went to the track. The setup is the same as before. When the track was dry i was able to do a 1:40.80 which was the best in my class. That was in the quali, then at the race it starter raining really hard, and had lots of brake fade. I finished 4 out of a 15 cars.
What things should i change after each race? should i change the brake fluid?

The fact that you had no brake fade in the dry sessions and you felt that you had it in the rainy sessions makes me think your pads were under their operating temp in the rain, and that you werent actually feeling fade. I ran HP Plus for daily driving on my old car and noticed in the rain I had to give my brakes a few cycles before they would get hot and start to grab.

Good things to do after a race or track session is to check fluid levels, and either after every event, or every other event change the engine oil and trans fluid.
You can also give the brakes a quick bleed after each event, incase the fluid boiled a bit and to just keep nice fresh fluid in the system at all times. Some other things to check are tourque on various load bearing suspension bolts and ball joints, give the wheels a shake to make sure the wheel bearings are still tight, etc.

[arthur]

I start at 32f 36r to get hot pressures at about 36f 38-40r. But tire pressure are totally personal preference, and optimum pressures also differ with each tire.



The fact that you had no brake fade in the dry sessions and you felt that you had it in the rainy sessions makes me think your pads were under their operating temp in the rain, and that you werent actually feeling fade. I ran HP Plus for daily driving on my old car and noticed in the rain I had to give my brakes a few cycles before they would get hot and start to grab.

Good things to do after a race or track session is to check fluid levels, and either after every event, or every other event change the engine oil and trans fluid.
You can also give the brakes a quick bleed after each event, incase the fluid boiled a bit and to just keep nice fresh fluid in the system at all times. Some other things to check are tourque on various load bearing suspension bolts and ball joints, give the wheels a shake to make sure the wheel bearings are still tight, etc.

Thanks! Next thing is using blue hawks and new tires. Lets see how that goes. I have checked every fluid level and they are ok, i guess ill just change the brake fluid just to make sure.

[SHG_EasyE]

Thanks! Next thing is using blue hawks and new tires. Lets see how that goes. I have checked every fluid level and they are ok, i guess ill just change the brake fluid just to make sure.

Dont use Hawk blues. They eat rotors and have a low max temp range. Step up to Hawk DTC-60 or 70

[arthur]

Dont use Hawk blues. They eat rotors and have a low max temp range. Step up to Hawk DTC-60 or 70

What will i gain if I use DTC-60 ? Wont they eat the rotors as fast as the blues? which brake fluid should i use now?

[sLiCk]

You'll gain just about everything. While the DTC60 is more aggressive, it is actually more gentle on the rotors. I think the only advantage with the blues is that they can get up to operating temperature faster.

[arthur]

You'll gain just about everything. While the DTC60 is more aggressive, it is actually more gentle on the rotors. I think the only advantage with the blues is that they can get up to operating temperature faster.

I see. Ok so DTC 60 will be. Now which brake fluid should I use? I have always used ATE dot4. Dont know if that is good enough.

[SHG_EasyE]

What will i gain if I use DTC-60 ? Wont they eat the rotors as fast as the blues? which brake fluid should i use now?

Blues actually are known for eating rotors pretty fast. DTC-60 is known for being gentle as slick said. In regards to getting up to temp faster, I just gave the brakes a little drag leaving pit lane and they were good to go for turn 1.


I see. Ok so DTC 60 will be. Now which brake fluid should I use? I have always used ATE dot4. Dont know if that is good enough.

Is it ATE superblue? If not youll want to change it out to a high temp race fluid. ATE superblue, Motul RBF 600, Wilwood 570 to name a few.

[arthur]

Ive being looking for a place that sells dtc 60 for the rear of my 02 ep3, but have not found one. Should I go with a dtc 60 front, and blues in the rear. dtc 60 front and 70 in the rear?

[cjohnst]

Is it bad that the main thing I got out of everyones wealth of knowledge was that
someone had a girlfriend who drove an evo... That's pretty awesome!

[SHG_EasyE]

Ive being looking for a place that sells dtc 60 for the rear of my 02 ep3, but have not found one. Should I go with a dtc 60 front, and blues in the rear. dtc 60 front and 70 in the rear?

I run porterfeild R4 in the rear and I love the feel. A buddy of mine uses HP Plus on the rear of his 08 Mugen Si but were not sure if thats such a good setup yet. He ended up using up a brand new set of pads up front in one day, so until we try different pads on the rear we wont be sure if thats why the fronts were so overworked.

You dont want to run blues in the rear, since they have a higher initial bite, it might cause a snap oversteer in braking. All I can reccomend is the R4's since its all Ive used so far.

[arthur]

how about using 60 in the front, and 70 in the rear?

[SHG_EasyE]

how about using 60 in the front, and 70 in the rear?

Not sure about the characteristics of the 70's youll have to look on hawks site or talk to one of their reps. If I recall correctly I think they are similar to the 60's but a little more aggressive with a higher temp rating, but dont quote me on that.

[arthur]

Well i ran today, with the DTC60. the brake feeling was great although it was hard for me to get used to. When I took the pads out, i saw that the pad was like falling apart. I will try to upload a couple of pics tomorrow. But just wondering if this is "normal"

[SHG_EasyE]

Well i ran today, with the DTC60. the brake feeling was great although it was hard for me to get used to. When I took the pads out, i saw that the pad was like falling apart. I will try to upload a couple of pics tomorrow. But just wondering if this is "normal"

That is usually due to not bedding the pads in properly. A little cracking in the pad material is normal, but when it comes apart thats not supposed to happen.

[arthur]

That is usually due to not bedding the pads in properly. A little cracking in the pad material is normal, but when it comes apart thats not supposed to happen.

what should i do now? please dont tell me that the pads dont work any more

[SHG_EasyE]

what should i do now? please dont tell me that the pads dont work any more

Post up some pics when you get a chance

[Anrasmor]

Do ep3s do well in there class?

[SHG_EasyE]

Do ep3s do well in there class?

Depends what class you prep them for. There are numerous classes you can run in depending on level of prep. For the most part FWD cars tend to do better in classes that allow for more prep. The closer to stock they are the more advantage RWD cars have over them.

[arthur]

Here are some pics of the brakes. Sorry for the poor quality, i took the pics with my phone.

[arthur]

Do ep3s do well in there class?

Im doing ok. Im running against stock eg6 and sentras B13 sr20s, not so stock, and a couple more. i am the one that is closer to stock, and im doing well. Right now i have the best time around the track, and im currently second place, right behind the B13

[SiRCivic03]

I run DTC60's front, hp+ rear, and I am going to upgrade the rears, If you go to www.tirerack.com they will describe the characteristics of all the Hawk Pad compounds, their heat ranges, operating temps, and torque specs. The fronts you posted up look like they are falling a apart a little bit. Could possibly be a bedding problem, but unless you are have horrible pedal feel they should be good to go. The DTC Hawk pads are great, and I have been running them for about 3 sets/ 2 years now.