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View Full Version : K24a1 Legal in California?



classiccelica
08-11-2010, 06:42 PM
Hello there I know this was covered a long while ago but even then there was a debate on whether it was illegal in california to put an engine from the crv into the ep3. I was wondering if this is the case. I really want to go k24a1 when I need to do an engine rebuild, so I have a great deal of time just wondering if I can legally do this.

talonXracer
08-11-2010, 07:16 PM
The real determining factor would be is the CRV registered as a truck or a passenger car.

beechstreet
08-11-2010, 07:44 PM
its a truck motor. been discussed previously. wont pass ref

johnkimble
08-11-2010, 08:20 PM
accord k24 will

classiccelica
08-11-2010, 10:41 PM
Yes as I stated I know it has been discussed previously as I have been here since 2006 and remember the debate. Problem is, like talon said, is it registered here as a truck or passenger car. Guess I need to find that out first. If it is registered as a truck motor then I guess I will go the z1 or a2 route. I want to build a frank but don't want to build the bottom end. My race/limited street car is in my avatar. Just want a fun street car until I can go the v-8 route much later down the road.

robzilla
08-17-2010, 06:28 PM
CRV's don't have Commercial license plates like trucks do. DMV requires trucks to have commercial plates, my tundra's license plate only has 1 letter and the rest are numbers. Cars and passenger vehicles have 3 letters.

classiccelica
08-17-2010, 06:56 PM
CRV's don't have Commercial license plates like trucks do. DMV requires trucks to have commercial plates, my tundra's license plate only has 1 letter and the rest are numbers. Cars and passenger vehicles have 3 letters.

So does this mean it is a legal swap for us cali guys then?

talonXracer
08-17-2010, 07:05 PM
If you want to build a frank then start with the K24A4 from the accord, it does have the newer design, and is usually cheaper than the K24A1

robzilla
08-17-2010, 09:59 PM
Agree with TalonXracer, if you want to build a frank start with the accord motor. Here is what the BAR website says. There are some people on here with K24 and KPro and have passed california emissions. I have been reading up on it a lot and hopefully one day do a k24 swap. I want a TSX engine.

http://www.autorepair.ca.gov/80_BARResources/07_AutoRepair/Engine_Change_Guidelines.html

Copy and paste from the Bureau of auto repair website.

Engine Change Guidelines
Overview

Engine changes continue to present problems and challenges to car owners and technicians. Here are some tips to keep you and your customers on the straight and narrow.

Our recommendation is to rebuild and reinstall the original engine, transmission, and emission control configuration.

When rebuilding an engine, it must be rebuilt to the original equipment specifications. However, if you do decide to change the engine, these guidelines must be observed to ensure that the vehicle will be eligible for smog certification or registration.

Remember, these are guidelines for performing engine changes – not certification procedures. All exhaust emission controlled vehicles with engine changes must be inspected by an official referee station and must have a Bureau of Automotive Repair (BAR) Vehicle Identification Label affixed to the doorpost.

Remember also, state and federal anti–tampering laws generally prohibit any modification to the vehicle's original emission control system configuration as certified by the manufacturer. And, Section 3362.1 of the California Code of Regulations prohibits any engine change that degrades the effectiveness of a vehicle's emission control system.
California Certification

A federal Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) certified (federal or 49–state) engine cannot be used in a vehicle that was originally certified for California.
Certification Standards

Make sure the engine and emission control configuration on exhaust – controlled vehicles are certified to the year of the vehicle or newer, and to the same or a more stringent new vehicle certification standard.
Classification

Don't mix engine and vehicle classifications which will degrade the emissions certification standards. For example, a heavy–duty engine cannot be installed in a light–duty exhaust–controlled chassis even if they have the same displacement. Non–emissions controlled power plants such as industrial or off–road–use–only engines may not be placed in any exhaust–controlled vehicle.
Computer Controls

If a computer–controlled engine is installed in a non–computerized vehicle, the "CHECK ENGINE" light, the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) diagnostic link, and all sensors, switches, and wiring harnesses needed to make the system fully functional must also be installed.
Emission Control Configuration

Mixing and matching emission control system components could cause problems and is generally not allowed. Engine and emission control systems must be in an engine–chassis configuration certified by the California Air Resources Board (ARB) or U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). The engine must meet or exceed the requirements for the year and class of vehicle in which it is installed.
Emission Warranty

Voiding the vehicle manufacturer's emission warranty is not allowed.
Engine Modifications

No internal or external engine modifications (cams, pistons, intakes, etc.) may be performed unless the parts are ARB–exempted or EPA–certified for use in the installed engine. Use the database on this site to search for aftermarket parts covered by ARB Executive Orders.
Original Equipment

The installed engine and host chassis must retain all of their original emission control equipment. Diesel–to–gasoline conversions must have all gasoline engine and chassis emission control systems installed (such as fillpipe restrictor, catalytic converter and evaporative emission system).
Smog Inspection

These vehicles must pass a complete smog inspection (visual, functional, and tailpipe).

beechstreet
08-17-2010, 10:06 PM
user chubbychu had a k24a2 and failed the visual inspection of BAR. it is unfortunate his thread was lost in the 2nd site crash because he had a lot of great info on why the k24a2 won't pass BAR in CA. I know it has to do with a coolant port and something about missing certain pins in the ECU wiring harness that activate certain valves... but dont quote me on that. Try PMing him and perhaps he will inform you further

classiccelica
08-17-2010, 10:41 PM
Oh wow, well thank you all for such great information. Now I really need Talon's help desperately on my p0171 code problem in the ep discussion section.

Andrew
08-18-2010, 12:39 AM
user chubbychu had a k24a2 and failed the visual inspection of BAR. it is unfortunate his thread was lost in the 2nd site crash because he had a lot of great info on why the k24a2 won't pass BAR in CA. I know it has to do with a coolant port and something about missing certain pins in the ECU wiring harness that activate certain valves... but dont quote me on that. Try PMing him and perhaps he will inform you further

this is true, but i've read some skeptical posts on clubrsx on how members have passed with k24a2 swaps in cali, but they never went into detail about it

robzilla
08-18-2010, 12:56 AM
this is true, but i've read some skeptical posts on clubrsx on how members have passed with k24a2 swaps in cali, but they never went into detail about it

I have seen some of those posts, and that's what keeps me reading into it looking for answers. You are right no one has gone into detail about it.

Andrew
08-18-2010, 01:31 AM
I have seen some of those posts, and that's what keeps me reading into it looking for answers. You are right no one has gone into detail about it.

i've researched it over and over and looked up post by post and it seems like if you do try to BAR a k24a2 swap you have to go all "stock" by using the rbb manifold. this is where chubby chu failed his visual because he use the prb and the tech saw something missing or whatever. others on clubrsx have mentioned just going all stock in with the rbb and passing. although i cant be 100% sure b/c there isnt cold hard facts

robzilla
08-18-2010, 03:45 AM
i've researched it over and over and looked up post by post and it seems like if you do try to BAR a k24a2 swap you have to go all "stock" by using the rbb manifold. this is where chubby chu failed his visual because he use the prb and the tech saw something missing or whatever. others on clubrsx have mentioned just going all stock in with the rbb and passing. although i cant be 100% sure b/c there isnt cold hard facts

Yeah, that makes sense. It could also depend on the tech and how much they know about honda engines. If you had a Karcepts throttle body adapter there might be a tech that would not pass the visual as well. Who knows. If you find anything, post it up!!!!!

side story.
I have an 96 civic Lx I put all Ex exhaust parts on it, DC header, cat and full cat back. I had a smog tech fail me on visual because he knew honda's and said I didnt have an Ex and that header was made for vtec and mine is non-vtec. I said I wasnt throwing any codes, but he still wouldnt pass me. I put a stock manifold and exhaust back on, I should have just went to another smog place. Later on I ended up going to the state referee because of an emissions ticket (racing sports akimoto intake with no carb sticker I replaced the intake with an AEM CIA) and they didnt even question the header, I gave the ref the paper all the carb exempt paper work and they passed me no problems.

T_Virus
08-18-2010, 12:31 PM
So far I don't know anyone with a swapped k24a2 passing. Maybe it was under the table?

Andrew
08-18-2010, 12:48 PM
So far I don't know anyone with a swapped k24a2 passing. Maybe it was under the table?

it couldnt have been under the table b/c the guy on clubrsx claimed he used to be a BAR tech. he kept posting up when that guy angelodc5r or k24fastswap or something on clubrsx got state ref'd and he was trying everything to BAR or pass the state ref

jtrolinger
08-24-2010, 03:24 PM
From my knowledge of having to deal with a So CaL Ref, you can swap any motor. However, it needs to be the same Maker (ie Honda/Acura) and has to be newer (ie 2004 into a 2003) than the vehicle your putting it in. Also must have all the original smog equipment installed. Dude was looking for everything and knew exactly where to look..There's no bs'n those guys..shoot they'll even tell you about new aftermarket parts to stay away from as well as sellers. Good luck with the swap man:mwink:

AUTiger
08-24-2010, 05:51 PM
I don't know their procedure. But could you take the vin number plate that is on the bottom of the block off your a3 and attach it to the k24. Maybe they look for the stamp on the block, but maybe you could grind it down and scribe it to say k20a3.

eurosteez
08-24-2010, 07:03 PM
throw a CARB legal high flow cat (magnaflow makes one and its $$$) and a choker quiet exhaust and you should pass smog. If its quiet, most cops wont ask whats under the hood. Your prolly fuct if they do ask though.