Wheel Hop

[Hybrid_Hatch]

Ok I am not new to drag racing by any means and on my old EK drag car dealt with and solved this problem but on the ep I can not win.

car has a K24a1 held in place with hasport mounts, skunk2 lowering springs and brand new lower control arm bushings (oem honda) and yet still launchs and hops massively, this was at the track on street tires with a starting air pressure of 30 and ending at 12 psi and no matter what rpm or if I slip the clutch it will spin for a quick second then hops like a basket ball.

Am I overlooking something here? I have mounts and new LCA bushings and it's not helping at all. Do I need to go to LCA Spherical Bearing setup? I also tried to launch the car at a friends shop with 24.5x8 slicks and it still had bad wheel hop so I know its in the chassis somewhere, just need to find and correct the issue.

[jamesandrew58]

I'm having the same problem as well. Are you using a front mount? What bushing hardness are you using for your mounts? What kind of clutch & flywheel are you using?

I'm running the ES poly LCA bushings and they didn't help much. I'm eventually gonna swap it out for PCI's spherical bushings.

[ep3jd]

stop talking about motor mounts. lsd and a better shock/spring combo will do you some good.

or

I know how to fix your wheel hop!!! Stop drag racing a fwd econo box car lol.

[Hybrid_Hatch]

BTW: car also has brand new KYB front struts and has a type r lsd. as for the stop drag racing a fwd ecno box, my ecno box ek went 9's with no wheel hop.

[ep3jd]

i don't see any car that runs 9's being considered an economy car on any level man lol but yeah, that information would have been nice before i made that post, sorry. but a suspension upgraded from there could help a little

[Hybrid_Hatch]

here is my ecno box on the dyno.... http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=26347056

[Hybrid_Hatch]

I am just lost on this, from what I read the PCI or blox bushing would be about the same as running traction bars so I guess thats my next go round, sorry about not putting the struts or lsd, I have done so much its hard to keep track and when a problem like this keeps biting me in the arse it frustrates me and I forget to post vitals like I did which I apologize for.

[EP3Casas]

its your suspension. get coilovers. problem solved. or lower your launch rpm.

[Hybrid_Hatch]

I have launched at 1200 all the way to 6000 on slicks and same ol basket ball affect, also I think full coilovers may help to a degree, but I dont have that kind of cash to drop atm, also it did the same thing when it was on stock springs/struts so thats the reason I believe its got to be in the chassis somewhere.

[EP3Casas]

I have launched at 1200 all the way to 6000 on slicks and same ol basket ball affect, also I think full coilovers may help to a degree, but I dont have that kind of cash to drop atm, also it did the same thing when it was on stock springs/struts so thats the reason I believe its got to be in the chassis somewhere.

your spring rates are too low for slicks. in order to really get the full effect you need a stiffer suspension package man. you should know this

[sleepy ep3]

When I switched from Skunk's to Tein's wheel hop problem all but vanished. Skunk 2 is junk 2. $800 suspension was GARBAGE. Tie rods they sent were defective and wallowed out the hole in the struts in about a month or less. TEIN FTW

[Hybrid_Hatch]

your spring rates are too low for slicks. in order to really get the full effect you need a stiffer suspension package man. you should know this

I understand this, however these springs have a good amount of stiffness to them so I looked the other way, on my ek I ran real soft spring rate in the front and super stiff in the rear and pulled 1.58 60 foots all day long, guess with this heavy car it needs a tighter spring, but that will make street driving suck even more than it does. I think I may try my friends fully adjustable tein's from his rsx (if they fit) and see what that does for it as his car does not hop at all and rides real clean.

[ep3jd]

here is my ecno box on the dyno.... http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=26347056

cool. don't get so butt hurt over the econo box brother.

[Hybrid_Hatch]

lol, oh I am not, I am just a showoff...lol

[RHCP0801]

lol you have myspace

[Hybrid_Hatch]

that I never use, I think I log in to it ever 6 months or so, lol

[jamesandrew58]

I have Tein Flex coilovers and ES poly front LCA bushings and i still wheelhop. I just recently installed a ITR LSD but haven't got a chance to try it out since the car isn't finished yet. What should i set my dampening to when drag racing? Full stiff all around? Or full stiff in the back and full soft up front?

[Hybrid_Hatch]

ok so I put my friends front struts/springs on and we tryed every last adjustment we could and it made no difference at all, then we tryed limiting the front end travel and that did nothing, so last we strapped the car down on a car trailer and put it into first and gave her some throttle and eased the clutch and watched the driver side rim go almost 3/4 of an inch back in the wheel well and 3/4 of an inch forward in reverse, so we pulled that whole side apart and found nothing at all, so we started going thru stuff and can not seem to figure out what is causing the rim to shift the way it is but I am sure we will.

[Hybrid_Hatch]

ok, we found 2 problems, first is that the lower ball joint on the driver side has seen better days and has way to much play allowing the spindle to move. 2nd is the motor mounts, for some reason my hasport mounts like to push the bushings out, think I am going to use some big ass washers in between the mount forks to hold the bushings into place, pic is worth a thousand words so here you guys go...

http://i38.tinypic.com/20hr4g5.jpg

[Zzyzx]

Hm.. I've always found wheel hop to be easily modulated with my right foot. also, check the condition your suspension bushings.

[Hybrid_Hatch]

see thats just it, even if I launch super easy with full traction then give her throttle she will instantly start hopping. I can slip the clutch, ease off the throttle and it will still hop.

[japarossa]

I had wheel hop real bad for my first race of the season, I guess I was hoping it went away on its own for the second race but it was still there. I took a look at the mounts and 2 of them were torn, i replaced them with Hasport Race mounts. I have been to the track 2 more times and no more wheel hop and knocked a second and a half off my time. I say this because I think your problem is in the mounts, just take the hood off and launch the car with someone standing beside it looking at the motor and see how much the motor moves. With those mount bushings moving around I dont think they are doing much to stiffen things up. Pull those bushings/inserts out and use liquid polyurethane to hold them in the mount, once the polyurethane dries they wont move anymore.
What stiffness are those mounts?

[Hybrid_Hatch]

I think me and you are on the same page, the mounts are 62a and the brand new OEM front I just put on a week and a half ago is torn to bits, I think I am going to order the innovative front mount and glue the bushings in. I can also send my mounts back and hasport will put 70a inserts into them, or I can just order them for 10 bucks a mount so I might go a little stiffer.

[Hybrid_Hatch]

ok a little update.

fixed the ball joint and added washers in on that driver side mount and had a few friends watching the engine/wheels as I proceeded to do a burnout, friend one says motor came back towards the firewall by about an inch then came up around 1.5 inches then started violently rocking back and forth, friend 2 says the driver side wheel started to hop right after the engine sat up and came back, and friend 3 says the pass side wheel never hopped at all. and from what they all said, the pass side of the engine looks to barely have moved while the trans side moved alot, going to weld up a solid mount for the front tonight then repeat and see what happens.

[VIZHUNZ02SI]

stiffer springs

[Hybrid_Hatch]

LOL, I dont think stiffer springs are going to stop my ping pong motor flop. beside I already tried tein fully adjustable with no improvement.

[EP3Casas]

check your trans mount as well. it could very well b that mount if your front is already mangled.

[Tnhatch03]

no one has said this...

but it is FWD. :-)

[Hybrid_Hatch]

I think the problem here is the 62a is just not enough to stop the motor from rocking around, I welded up a stock front mount and slid it in and wheel hop is just about gone, only a slight vibration upon launch which I am thinking will be gone with 70a inserts and a innovative front mount, who would have thought a stock K24a1 on a cai and mid pipe with kpro could overcome hasport 62a's.

[jamesandrew58]

i have 70a hasports with 60a innovative front and i still hop. i also have tein flex coilovers, hardrace rca (extended front balljoints) & es poly front lca bushings.

what kind of clutch & flywheel do you have btw? im having the exact problems you are btw. better watch out with the hops. mine hopped one too many times and my 1st gear shattered.

[dobbs02si]

Thats crazy talk..?! Im using ES inserts and tein basics and mine will only hop a tiny bit it wet weather. Dry is perfect, including 7200 clutch drops on 26 inch slicks. Even when I was using GC sleeves and stock struts it was above par. I would have never guessed it would distort full poly mounts.

[dkid15]

I havent wheel hopped since i got my coilovers. Im k24/k20 and can/frequently do roast 1-2. Even at the track i am yet to have a problem.

[jamesandrew58]

what i noticed is that me and my friend were running stage 4 competition clutches with 8lb flywheels and we both would hop like no tomorrow. but my friend with a exedy stage 1 and itr flywheel would not. same mounts btw & motors w/ identical mods. im now running a exedy stage 1, itr flywheel & lsd but like i said before never got a chance to test it out since car isn't finished yet.

what clutch/flywheel setups are you guys using and what's the bushing hardness of your mounts? also are you guys running aftermarket front mounts or stock?

[Hybrid_Hatch]

type s flywheel and an exedy clutch.

my motor is moving so much that the rear mount has a super shinny "ring" around the aluminum part of the mount where the poly flange buts up to the aluminum, its a good 1/4 inch ring from the poly out.

[jamesandrew58]

i think your hopping problems were because you were using a stock front mount. it seems you eliminated the hop when you modified the stock front mount. try an innovative mount and see what happens.

[Hybrid_Hatch]

I agree, as a solid front mount seems to have corrected the problem, however if a front mount is needed then hasport should make one, having to run 3 hasports and 1 innovative seems like a big band-aid to me.

[jamesandrew58]

also be sure to torque all the mount bolts to proper spec. most of the mount bolts are in the range of 40-47 ft/lb

if the front mount doesn't cure the wheel hop be sure you clutch/flywheel isn't overpowering your setup. i believe a little slippage when launching is good for curing wheelhop plus alleviating stress on the drivetrain. ill report back and let you guys know if my new setup cures my wheelhop problems.

i believe my clutch was too grabby or it was worn to the point that it caused a grab and release effect which may have caused the wheelhop... idk lol

[Hybrid_Hatch]

everything is torqued, even went as far as to check the sub frame/struts/ball joints/lca's and wheel lugs.

[sleepy ep3]

what i noticed is that me and my friend were running stage 4 competition clutches with 8lb flywheels and we both would hop like no tomorrow. but my friend with a exedy stage 1 and itr flywheel would not. same mounts btw & motors w/ identical mods. im now running a exedy stage 1, itr flywheel & lsd but like i said before never got a chance to test it out since car isn't finished yet.

what clutch/flywheel setups are you guys using and what's the bushing hardness of your mounts? also are you guys running aftermarket front mounts or stock?
I am running a stage 4 competition clutch and it chatters, but does not wheel hop. Seems like the issue is the on/off nature of the 6 puck design, and not the suspension. It's kind of hard to get a 6 puck to slip at launch

[jamesandrew58]

bump for new findings. take a look at this.

http://spoonsportseurope.net/index.php/products/rigid-collar.html

maybe the subframe moves during launches?

[Hybrid_Hatch]

the problem with mine was motor mounts not holding, I am now on a innovative front mount with 70a inserts in the hasport mounts and the problem has gone away, after I got the motor to sit tight I put my A2 head on and did up the exhaust and now I can lite the tires up all the way thru 3rd and its smooth with no problems.

[jamesandrew58]

what hardness is the front mount?