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View Full Version : DIY - MugenReplica N1 Suspension. (DIY & pics coming after victim...err volunteer)



MugenReplica
09-06-2010, 10:17 AM
The Idea

So, I was sitting around the other night trying to figure out my next idea for a unique modification to my Ep3, when I decided to walk downstairs and go through my pile of spare Ep3 parts. After rummaging around for an hour or so, I ran across my old blown out front struts sans top hats (they're on 2004EP3HATCH's Ep), along with my spare tie rod ends (two from an Ep3 and one from an RSX-S). After blinking a couple of times an idea popped into my head.

Why not use Ep3 struts with RSX-S tie rod ends?

Now, some of you are going to be screaming "foul" at me and tell me this doesn't work as the RSX-S tie rod ends have a larger diameter bolt than the Ep3 tie rods ends. You would be correct in that factual statement, BUT you are thinking too narrow minded. Just think Mugen N1 tie rod strut placement.....

The Theory

This should work 100% perfectly to fix your steering rack creak, the bumpsteer problems, and the greatly increased steering rack angle with our MacPherson struts on a lowered suspension over a 1.5" drop and be OEM reliable. The point of this thread, is that since the Ep3 strut has a smaller tie rod bolt hole, in theory you should be able to machine out a tapered tie rod bolt hole inverted (or upside down) into the strut for the larger RSX-S tie rod ends.

The Process

First, you buy two RSX-S tie rod ends from your local Acura dealer, online dealer ,or if you plan on lower than a 2" drop go to Advance Auto and buy (2) part #S-ES2382 (these help out if you lower too far and can not get your toe to 0).

Right side tie rod end is the S-ES2382, Left side is the RSX-S stock tie rod end.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4013/4386024535_eb02978158.jpg

Second, you buy yourself whatever Ep3 specific suspension kit you want or remove both front struts. Just buy a cheapy Raceland Suspension (http://www.racelandus.com/p-61-raceland-full-coilovers-for-honda-civic-ep3-2002-2005.aspx):mwink:

http://bwperformance.com/sites/default/files/4/raceland%20pic_0.jpg

Third, you take both the tie rod ends and the struts to your local machine shop. Tell the gentleman running the machine shop that you want to the tie rod end bolts that you are supplying him with to mount and taper the opposite direction of stock (so you can INVERT the tie rod ends) on your strut arms. Since you are using a strut with a smaller tie rod end hole to begin with, this allows you to have extra material to have a perfect taper the opposite direction when it is machined out (versus just drilling a 9/16" bit through a DC5 strut and eliminating the taper). The key here is to keep the taper for the tie rod bolt like on the Mugen N1 suspension kit. Let's just call this DIY "The MugenReplica N1 Suspension".

Fourth, paint them gold like the Mugen N1 suspension (I'm just kidding, but I do think it looks better than the Racelands:msmile:).

http://www.doubledgarage.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/dc5out_007.jpg

http://www.doubledgarage.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/dc5out_009.jpg

Fifth, REinstall your front struts and clean them while your at it.

Sixth, now your tie rod end should be aiming down, grab it and flip it 180 degrees until it is facing upwards. Reinstall your castle nut and NEW cotter pin, then tighten down. Repeat on opposite side. Bask in the glow of having OEM inverted tie rod ends and never having to worry about steering rack creak, bumpsteer problems, or bad tie rod angle adjustment ever again! All that plus you don't have to constantly lube them like you do with all these other spherical inverted tie rod ends.

http://a.imageshack.us/img267/3306/img1408ex2.jpg


Leave some feedback if you read this....:ephatch:

NickL
09-06-2010, 10:28 AM
This is interesting. Did you previously have steering rack creak and this fixed it? I dont have it but would like to prevent it. Also would it work if I just took the new#S-ES2382 tie rod ends to the machine shop with the stock struts so that I wouldnt have to remove my front suspension?

Thanks for writing this up by the way.

MugenReplica
09-06-2010, 10:46 AM
This is interesting. Did you previously have steering rack creak and this fixed it? I dont have it but would like to prevent it. Also would it work if I just took the new#S-ES2382 tie rod ends to the machine shop with the stock struts so that I wouldnt have to remove my front suspension?

Thanks for writing this up by the way.

I've had steering rack creak in the past, but I do not have it anymore. I actually have an DC5 suspension kit installed in my Ep3, so I can't do this without totally eliminating the taper on my strut arm tie rod end bolt holes.

Whatever struts you want to drive on is the struts you will have do this modification to. So, if you are going to install your stock struts and drive on them, then you an do it. I assume you have some other suspension kit installed already?

ep-unit
09-06-2010, 11:11 AM
great thread....!!

Anrasmor
09-06-2010, 11:19 AM
Really good idea. I think when I order my Racelands I may try this out. I plan on going decently low and was afraid that this might put too much strain on my rack, but this sounds like a great alternative.

dirtyMETHOD
09-06-2010, 11:25 AM
not bad at all, worth a trial or two

Andrew
09-07-2010, 12:17 PM
you're a boss for this. i've only seen this on clubrsx, but your boss brain brought it here! nice great and my future racelands will/should have this haha

MugenReplica
09-07-2010, 12:45 PM
you're a boss for this. i've only seen this on clubrsx, but your boss brain brought it here! nice great and my future racelands will/should have this haha

The drilling out of the DC5 perch has been done for years now, but they have to completely drill it straight with no taper for the tie rod tapered bolt (which adds a touch of play because it does not hold the bolt properly. We have the advantage of starting out with slightly more material to begin with so it's simple for us to taper from the bottom up to fit the RSX-S tie rod ends.

chiwhitesi
09-07-2010, 02:20 PM
thats some cool shit

Anrasmor
09-10-2010, 07:08 AM
I think I may be doing this very soon. I'm in need of new shocks and tie rods and it seems like a damn good opportunity to try this out.

What do the part #S-ES2382 tie rods come off of?

MugenReplica
09-10-2010, 08:12 AM
I think I may be doing this very soon. I'm in need of new shocks and tie rods and it seems like a damn good opportunity to try this out.

What do the part #S-ES2382 tie rods come off of?

Not sure, but I got them off a local RSX-S friend who said he got the part number off from clubrsx and used it to zero out his toe. They supposedly work because they have a longer sleeve housing for more adjustment. He was dropped 2.5" and couldn't zero out his toe. He told me those worked to correct it.

Anrasmor
09-10-2010, 08:50 AM
Not sure, but I got them off a local RSX-S friend who said he got the part number off from clubrsx and used it to zero out his toe. They supposedly work because they have a longer sleeve housing for more adjustment. He was dropped 2.5" and couldn't zero out his toe. He told me those worked to correct it.

Tried doing a search for them on Autozone's website but it didn't turn up anything. I may have to bring in the number and have them compare it to something else.

MugenReplica
09-10-2010, 09:37 AM
Tried doing a search for them on Autozone's website but it didn't turn up anything. I may have to bring in the number and have them compare it to something else.

Maybe he didn't give the correct part #. When I shot him a quick text, that's what he responded.

Ronnie
09-10-2010, 11:57 AM
well , nice write up
and I like the way you diss the racelands :tehehyper:

However, I thought those tie rod ends are designed not be mount upside down ?????
- even with that being upside down, is the alignment shops gonna be able to the alignment ?
- why not throw some inverted tie rod end instead ???

Anrasmor
09-10-2010, 12:15 PM
well , nice write up
and I like the way you diss the racelands :tehehyper:

However, I thought those tie rod ends are designed not be mount upside down ?????
- even with that being upside down, is the alignment shops gonna be able to the alignment ?
- why not throw some inverted tie rod end instead ???

I didn't think he dissed Raceland coilovers...

Tie rods can be used either direction. It just depends on if they fit based on which side the taper is on.

MugenReplica
09-10-2010, 12:36 PM
well , nice write up
and I like the way you diss the racelands :tehehyper:

However, I thought those tie rod ends are designed not be mount upside down ?????
- even with that being upside down, is the alignment shops gonna be able to the alignment ?
- why not throw some inverted tie rod end instead ???

Lol, I don't actually have a problem with Racelands. They are an awesome cheap replacement for our cars. Their customer service is A+ as well. I installed a set for 2004EP3HATCH and was very impressed with the suspension for the cost. That being said, I'd rather attempt this on a set of Racelands first to see how well it works, than a set of replacement Bilsteins.

-Yes by design they are to be mounted the other way around. You can always keep an eye on them, but I seriously doubt they will fail. People have done it on clubrsx and people have raced on that design. I've never heard of a failure.

-I don't see where it would hamper the vehicle from being aligned?

-I'm not a fan of them. I'd love to do it, but I don't want to have to constantly lube them to keep them in good working order. If you consider these and option, inverting OEM and checking them on a regular basis is essentially the same idea.

Ronnie
09-10-2010, 11:57 PM
Lol, I don't actually have a problem with Racelands. They are an awesome cheap replacement for our cars. Their customer service is A+ as well. I installed a set for 2004EP3HATCH and was very impressed with the suspension for the cost. That being said, I'd rather attempt this on a set of Racelands first to see how well it works, than a set of replacement Bilsteins.

-Yes by design they are to be mounted the other way around. You can always keep an eye on them, but I seriously doubt they will fail. People have done it on clubrsx and people have raced on that design. I've never heard of a failure.

-I don't see where it would hamper the vehicle from being aligned?

-I'm not a fan of them. I'd love to do it, but I don't want to have to constantly lube them to keep them in good working order. If you consider these and option, inverting OEM and checking them on a regular basis is essentially the same idea.


ahan, I thought you were dissing raceland though....LOL
OH, hells yes, they are great for the price. Truthfully, I recently bought a set for myself and I been very satisfied with them. Even I couldn't tell the damn difference between them and my tein ss nor my progress. Customer service: A+++ , i mean i haven't seen any company giving customer service like them case in point: i called in 3 weeks ago and talked to them about my front shocks being blown due to the very bad clunking sound and without any further question being asked, they placed a replacement and apologized for any inconvenient and I was like 0_0

+ yes, I have also seen that on clubrsx , and they have tested on DC5 as far as i know, "but would it fail or not ? i don't know yet.
Does it work on ep3 ??? <<< maybe >>>
can we autox them ??? i don't think so...

+ I already did this last year with the OEM tie rod ends and they failed ( I autox them as matter of fact ) so...

+ I'm running inverted tie rod ends with no problems at all. my ep is also my DD so i don't think sticking my head under the front wheel every once a month would be such a big deal to see if they doing alright or not.

- If your are doing this for your own purpose, PLZ keep me OR i should say ephatchers updated so we know how they are doing

2004ep3hatch
09-11-2010, 02:05 PM
John I'll Volunteer to try this out as i need to fix it! Let me know when you want to do this. It's busy at work so i can't get 3 day weekends now lol.

Anrasmor
09-18-2010, 07:58 AM
MugenReplica, were you ever able to find out what the exact part numbers were for those tie rod ends?

ModdedDakota
09-26-2010, 07:39 PM
If there is a will.......there is a way! Make sure to tell me ahead of when You two ( MugenReplica, and 2004ep3hatch) so I can make sure I have that tapered Machine bit. Or possibly find one that will perfectly bore out to fit the RSX tie rod.

AKEP
04-28-2012, 07:28 AM
damn, guess its time for a bump, i could never find this thread!

whatsvtec
04-28-2012, 07:57 AM
I may go through with doing this to some tein basics. If I do, I'll post up pictures and measurements if I can. I've just gotta find someone local who's good, and willing to do this.

MugenReplica
04-28-2012, 08:01 AM
I may go through with doing this to some tein basics. If I do, I'll post up pictures and measurements if I can. I've just gotta find someone local who's good, and willing to do this.

Dave, one of my co workers fathers owns a shop up there in Greece. If you don't have any connections, let's get the RSX-S tie rod ends and we'll see if we can get an inexpensive quote from her.

whatsvtec
04-28-2012, 01:02 PM
Sounds good to me man!

Euro-Yellow-Ep3
04-28-2012, 01:32 PM
You have inspired me to try this, ill let u kno how it turns out

03civicdopejmd
04-28-2012, 05:41 PM
I dont think rsd's are tapered... Ive never taken notice to that, I guess I just always got the correct tierod ends.. Im running oem rsx tierod ends and rsx rsd's... couldnt I just flip them one eighty and reinstalle them? I heard of inverteds breaking..

Im running
front -2 camber 5 degrees out toe.. I dd everyday... it love the turns!

slo_k20
06-08-2012, 07:57 AM
Where can you buy ep3 specific inverted tie rod ends? T1R only makes them for an RSX apparently.

slo_k20
06-08-2012, 08:33 AM
actually found them here: http://www.speedstar-racing.com/store/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/31_46/products_id/415?osCsid=4eabbcc2ff86697ce4e9c5efd38d30d1

the clubrsx parts store (k-series parts) does not carry these for some reason. they only have dc5 version 2 inverted tie rod ends, which don't fit!

Furthermore, on http://www.typeoneracing.com/catalog/home.php?cat=103 , T1R does not even list the EP3 inverted tie rods on their website. What is up with that? I am about to call speedstar when they open and make sure they have the right part.

whatsvtec
06-08-2012, 08:44 AM
couldnt I just flip them one eighty and reinstalle them?


They should be tapered.... :mrolleyes:

Her-Name's-Ally
06-11-2012, 07:34 PM
I have a squeky sound coming from the front when I turn the wheel some times.. Im most positive its my struts, I have stock suspension and I bought some new struts and some lowering springs to hold me over until I can afford some D2s or tiens. anyway when I do upgrade is there in easier way to do this? No one speaks english at all the machine shops around me haha

ep3k20
06-11-2012, 07:59 PM
I like the idea and credit you in thinking in such a prolific way. This is the kinda person that blasts spaceships into orbit folks open your ears and listen!

poeticfinesse21
10-20-2012, 10:58 PM
Hmmm.... I'm currently riding on a 02-04 DC5-R suspension and once the shocks go I wanna throw the DC5-R springs on some bilsteins but they only made the bilsteins for the EP3 and EM2/ES1. I'm not a fan of the smaller diameter EP3 tie rod ends so I might try this so I can use my RSX tie rod ends with the bilsteins but I wanna know how successful other members have been with this before I fuck up some $600 shocks. I could go with konis but I don't wanna have to deal with cutting up the shocks....

brownryce
10-21-2012, 07:13 AM
Hmmm. Very interesting stuff.

charles
11-26-2012, 06:59 PM
Titties!!!

black05ep
11-26-2012, 08:23 PM
Titties!!!

If this was facebook i would like that comment because thats the first thing i thought of. Hahaha nws

SkareKrow
11-27-2012, 12:00 PM
:mwink:

¶SK¬

02ep3413
11-28-2012, 05:56 AM
Get a HFP! I had it for about 2 years and never failed me. Great ride height too.

EP3Lov3
03-08-2013, 11:07 AM
Should this be able to work with any coilover as well? I have the Buddy Club N+ and would want to do this.... I'm not slammed but my steering rack angle is a bit funky

chensky
04-02-2013, 04:21 PM
Sorry for bringing this back from the grave but did anyone have success with this? I think its my only option

MugenReplica
04-03-2013, 07:20 AM
Sorry for bringing this back from the grave but did anyone have success with this? I think its my only option

Unfortunately my Racelands are still sitting in the box. I'm in the process of getting married and haven't had any time to get this together. It should be easy to do with any of the Ep3 specific coilovers, struts, etc. Just take them to your local machine shop and explain to them what you want to do. Shouldn't cost over $100 to have flipped tie rod ends.

chensky
04-07-2013, 09:31 AM
Unfortunately my Racelands are still sitting in the box. I'm in the process of getting married and haven't had any time to get this together. It should be easy to do with any of the Ep3 specific coilovers, struts, etc. Just take them to your local machine shop and explain to them what you want to do. Shouldn't cost over $100 to have flipped tie rod ends.

Awesome I will post back when I do this with come pictures, should be 2 weeks or so. The only last question is... I am running 205 40 17r tires and will defiantly be low low, so I will need longer tie rod ends? I keep reading mixed things, but the lower you go you cant catch a thread right, or is it that you run out of turn space? Thanks in advance on this. I'm mega pumped to do this, and its saving me some loot!

chensky
04-16-2013, 04:50 PM
Just wanted to update on this...
the ep and rsx have the same taper length of .43 inches which is good...the taper however for the RSX is .59 to .54 the ep is .55 to .50
The difference is no big deal but this puts the angle of the new hole you need at 87 degrees. Unfortunately this is not a common machining bit angle, or it might just not exist at all so the strut will have to be cnc cut.

I don't see how cutting 2 holes can take more than an hour but Il see tomorrow. $100 and hour though...