E85 or Gasoline? [Archive]

ElHeffe

10-08-2010, 09:39 PM

I have heard mixed things on the E85 conversion but I know nothin about it. Is it a good conversion or jus stay with 93 oct. Someone help plz.

Deadphishy

10-09-2010, 09:00 AM

I have heard mixed things on the E85 conversion but I know nothin about it. Is it a good conversion or jus stay with 93 oct. Someone help plz.

What have you don to your car?

Internet = Awfull source for E85 information.

Tomany people with opinions, and no facts

urthworm

10-09-2010, 10:19 AM

Also keep in mind the availability of e85 in your area. We only have one gas station in Albuquerque that sells it, and if its a daily driver it would suck to have to go across town just to fill up.

kenscivic

10-09-2010, 10:34 AM

e85 facts:

less efficent , Higher octane, burn up oxygen sensors and seals (fuel system seals) if the seals are not ment for heavier duty load..

Oh yah worse fuel economy ..

ElHeffe

10-09-2010, 04:13 PM

What have you don to your car?

Internet = Awfull source for E85 information.

Tomany people with opinions, and no facts

Nothin major yet just exhaust stuff nothin internally or huge bolt on

ElHeffe

10-09-2010, 04:14 PM

Also keep in mind the availability of e85 in your area. We only have one gas station in Albuquerque that sells it, and if its a daily driver it would suck to have to go across town just to fill up.

I have one right down the street and another 2 streets over

ElHeffe

10-09-2010, 04:17 PM

e85 facts:

less efficent , Higher octane, burn up oxygen sensors and seals (fuel system seals) if the seals are not ment for heavier duty load..

Oh yah worse fuel economy ..

Ok Cuz there is a guy that used to have an EP here that ran it and said he loved it.

until240

10-09-2010, 05:38 PM

I have heard mixed things on the E85 conversion but I know nothin about it. Is it a good conversion or jus stay with 93 oct. Someone help plz.

Ok. Based on your question, I'll assume you don't know much about octane. Here are some basics:

-Octane is NOT a power adder. You don't run hight octane and just magically make more power.

-Octane number is a measurement of resistance to combustion.

-When do you want more resistance to combustion? Super-high compression ratios, or forced induction.

-E85 has an octane of around 105. VP-110 (a race fuel) is 110 (duh). VP-110 will run you around $10/gallon, while E85 is around par with the cost of premium gas (93 octane in my area). So, you're getting near race fuel performance for a quarter of the cost. E85 was especially attractive for those who were running turbos when gas was $4/gallon, while E85 was still $2.XX/gallon.

-E85 will get you less fuel economy, requiring you to use about 1/3 more fuel than gasoline. This is because the alcohols contain less 'energy' than gasoline. Thus, if you plan on running E85, make sure your injectors and fuel pump are big enough to handle the extra flow.

-While running a higher octane than recommended will not help, running a lower than recommended octane will cost problems; most commonly knock.

-

kenscivic

10-09-2010, 05:48 PM

Ok Cuz there is a guy that used to have an EP here that ran it and said he loved it.
Erg there is no loving a fuel. It will prevent detonation when ypu are pushing your motor hard like turbo w lots of boost. On a stock civic there is no reason what
So ever

Onasty

10-09-2010, 06:29 PM

Erg there is no loving a fuel. It will prevent detonation when ypu are pushing your motor hard like turbo w lots of boost. On a stock civic there is no reason what
So ever

^^^^ very true

Silvercard

10-09-2010, 06:30 PM

Erg there is no loving a fuel. It will prevent detonation when ypu are pushing your motor hard like turbo w lots of boost. On a stock civic there is no reason what
So ever
Yep. I know of a shop in Scottdale, Arizona and based on their experience, e85 on boosted applications is a plus. N/A nope. its not worth if your one stock.

heyvortek

10-10-2010, 02:15 AM

e85 if ur boosted and have it available...gasoline if u drive everywhere and out of state. some states dont have e85 everywhere...remember that.

ElHeffe

10-10-2010, 04:00 AM

kenscivic

10-10-2010, 10:22 AM

Yep. I know of a shop in Scottdale, Arizona and based on their experience, e85 on boosted applications is a plus. N/A nope. its not worth if your one stock.

Not necessarily only boosted cars. It is a higher octane so if you are running higher compression n/a it's good as well.. But it's the same thing as running race gas (for an example not really but sort of) would you run race gas on a stock civic? No point, just wasting money. E85 was the biggest joke with the whole getting off of petrolium products..

Jharobikesr2

10-10-2010, 12:12 PM

I switched to e85 on my JRSC ep3 and i made 28WHP just from converting, ill tell you though the gas mileage sucks something serious; i get i believe somewhere in the 14-16mpg with 650cc injectors. It also sucks when your low on gas cause out here in Denver where i live e85 stations are few and far between so i causes issues with the convenience factor lol. You will love the power increase though..

talonXracer

10-10-2010, 12:26 PM

E85 is a fantastic fuel for the right application, BUT, you need alot of compression or boost to properly utilize the fuel. 14:1 is a very streetable compression ratio. This is where E85 overtakes 93 octane gasoline.

I have not seen any issues with the Kseries and E85 fuel/seal compatibility.

The stock engine can run on e85 as long as you upgrade the injectors and install Kpro, but again a stock engine is not optimal or even close.

Also remember corn based E85 is not all that eco friendly, that is pure marketing BS, there is more carbon and other pollutants released during the entire lifespan of corn based e85, from the cornfield to out your tailpipe than a comparable E85 produced from cane or from 93 octane gasoline.

Mighty_Mouse

10-11-2010, 05:08 AM

Ok. Thanks for all the info everyone. Im not very knowledgeable about octane, but I run 93 in my car just because I was told to run premium in my car just because its better then runnin the low. So that's what Ive been runnin. And my car isn't boosted or near ready for it yet, so I will jus keep runnin the gas in it. I appreciate everyones input.

You might try learning something about cars because you're quite obviously a complete noob. Higher octane gas produces LESS power and WORSE gas mileage than lower octane. If your engine doesn't require 93 octane, you are wasting money on the gas, losing power and losing fuel efficiency.

kenscivic

10-11-2010, 05:59 AM

You might try learning something about cars because you're quite obviously a complete noob. Higher octane gas produces LESS power and WORSE gas mileage than lower octane. If your engine doesn't require 93 octane, you are wasting money on the gas, losing power and losing fuel efficiency.

Thank you!!! I get soooo many people that argue with me that " Higher octane is better mpg" when it actually isn't.. It gets soooo irritating.

Higher octane means you can run higher compression and advance your timing more... Leaner is meaner

Mighty_Mouse

10-11-2010, 06:04 AM

Thank you!!! I get soooo many people that argue with me that " Higher octane is better mpg" when it actually isn't.. It gets soooo irritating.

Higher octane means you can run higher compression and advance your timing more... Leaner is meaner

Unfortunately, most people (including those on ephatch) are nothing but clueless ricers.

talonXracer

10-11-2010, 06:06 AM

Mighty_Mouse

10-11-2010, 06:18 AM

Yes, you want to run the lowest octane that will allow your engine to produce the BEST power without pre-ignition or detonation.

With a VTC equipped K-series engine you can utilize a lower octane than the same engine with the VTC disabled and make more power.

Almost. You want to run the lowest octane without pre-ignition or detonation which will thus produce the BEST power.

Running anything over 87 in an A3 is moronic. The OP has nothing more than an exhaust on an A3. Total waste.

kenscivic

10-11-2010, 07:00 AM

Agreed! heck I ran 89 in my old z28 w/ 11:1 compression before I built an d tuned it... Some people are just silly.

It's just like the people that believe race fuel will make their close to stock cars faster.. In the long run it will waste money and burn up sensors.

Deadphishy

10-11-2010, 08:08 AM

Gas 114100 BTU's per gallon
Stoich for gasoline 14.7 (Air):1 (Gas)
114100 BTUs / 14.7 (Units of Air) = 7762 BTUs per unit of Air
E85 81800 BTU's per gallon
Stoich for E85 9.765 : 1
81800 BTUs / 9.765 (Units of Air) = 8377 BTUs per unit of Air

8377 (E85) / 7762 (Gas) = 1.08%

To sum it up.

The Major limit to the amount of power a motor can make is the amount of Air it can bring into the combustion chamber. So if two Identical motors were brining in the same amount of Air, but one was using gas and the other was using E85. The E85 motor would make close to 8% more power.

Now in practice i've seen this to not be true. It is closer to 5% but goes higher and lower depending on dynamic compression of the motor.

This works for NA motors as well.

Edit: I don't know why i used moles, should be Partical(s)
Or i would have had to look up the BTU's per mole of gas/E85. Non the less, even with the units mixed up. The calculation holds true.

POOPTOOTH

10-11-2010, 08:25 AM

Phishy gettin' all scientific on that ass...lol.

Good info though!

talonXracer

10-11-2010, 10:33 AM

It's just like the people that believe race fuel will make their close to stock cars faster.. In the long run it will waste money and burn up sensors.

Not race fuel but 93
Add Kpro and now we get to a little quandary with a variable advance ignition system combined with variable cam timing and adjustig the A/F. You can actually utilize that higher octane fuel by being able to advance the ignition and cam advance to obtain better performance/efficiency and fuel economy, now does that extra bit of economy/power cover the added fuel and tuning costs, doubtfull, but it is very doable.

There is more than one way to go about utilizing a higher octane fuel

kenscivic

10-11-2010, 11:46 AM

[QUOTE=talonXracer;806702]Not race fuel but 93
Add Kpro and now we get to a little quandary with a variable advance ignition system combined with variable cam timing and adjustig the A/F. You can actually utilize that higher octane fuel by being able to advance the ignition and cam advance to obtain better performance/efficiency and fuel economy, now does that extra bit of economy/power cover the added fuel and tuning costs, doubtfull, but it is very doable.

There is more than one way to go about utilizing a higher octane

Are you agreeing with me?!

Of course as soon as you have some engine managment that can advance timing / fuel trim/ etc... then it shows it's pros