strangest noise coming from the belt, pulley, tensioner-need some opinions

[EP3CHRiS]

Hey guys. Well i have this really strange noise coming from the belt, pulley and tensioner area. its been happening for a couple of weeks now and finally, its getting so loud that its really concerning me. The only way i can explain this noise is its kind of a "expanding and contracting" sound. this happens when ever it wants, meaning i really can't pin point when exactly it happens. the sound can be loud, quiet. It happens when the cars cold, hot, when the heaters on, just to mention i don't use AC etc. sometimes, the noise can come on for a good 5 to 6 seconds, than drop, then maybe come back on quieter 2 minutes later. Sometimes, this noise doesn't even happen! for an example, the other day, i came to a stop light, i heard the noise pretty loud, than the next light i came to about 4 minutes later, the noise was completely gone. I'm thinking about replacing the belt, pulley and tensioner, BUT i wanna see if anyones had this noise before. I took a video and posted it on Youtube, so you guys can here it properly. This should come in handy because i have no other way of explaining it rather than "expanding and contracting". This video i took was when i just came home from about a 65 km trip.

I need a hand on this guys, any input would be great, thanks guys
(turn up to here video properly)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kw-PKF67Cs

[RedSiBaron]

It does sound like a bearing howl...id suggest replacing the belt, pully, and tensioner...they are really easy, cheap enough...and if it doesn't solve it, which I expect it will, then atleast you did some good maintenance...don't buy the whole tensioner assembly, just get the bearing/pully and put it on...

[Twisted-X]

I agree with Red.
When Its making that noise, does it continue when you give it throttle? Does it get quieter/louder?
If nothing else, pull the belt and the idler and tensioner pulley's and see what state the bearings are in on the backside.
If you put a length of tubing to your ear and point the other end at where you suspect the noise is coming from, sometimes you can pinpoint its location. Something to try anyway...

Mine's been making that "supercharger" noise for a while, I'll change it when it gets loud enough. :mbiggrin:

[RHCP0801]

supercharger noise is usually the sound of a tranny problem, not pulley

[DA9_GSR]

Does the noise occur while idling without moving? If so, does the sound change with the engine speed? If so, remove the serpentine belt and retry. If the noise is gone, it's something belt driven. Check the idlers, a/c pulley, etc. If you spin the pulley by hand you'll feel the "crunchiness" in the rolling capability compared to a good bearing pulley. It sounds like it may be a bearing in one of the belt driven pulleys.

If the noise is still there with the belt off, we're talking a whole different ballgame here. Let me know how it goes.

[EP3CHRiS]

I agree with Red.
When Its making that noise, does it continue when you give it throttle? Does it get quieter/louder?
If nothing else, pull the belt and the idler and tensioner pulley's and see what state the bearings are in on the backside.
If you put a length of tubing to your ear and point the other end at where you suspect the noise is coming from, sometimes you can pinpoint its location. Something to try anyway...

Mine's been making that "supercharger" noise for a while, I'll change it when it gets loud enough. :mbiggrin:


Does the noise occur while idling without moving? If so, does the sound change with the engine speed? If so, remove the serpentine belt and retry. If the noise is gone, it's something belt driven. Check the idlers, a/c pulley, etc. If you spin the pulley by hand you'll feel the "crunchiness" in the rolling capability compared to a good bearing pulley. It sounds like it may be a bearing in one of the belt driven pulleys.

If the noise is still there with the belt off, we're talking a whole different ballgame here. Let me know how it goes.


Thanks for the advice guys. I was planning to get a new belt, pulley and tensioner as my first step to solving this problem. Plus, i am reaching 150,000 kms, so it would make some good regular maintenance. As i give throttle, i can here that the noise stops. I only get it at idle when i am at a light. the sound does not change with engine speed, only at idle. thanks for the tip X, i completely forgot to try that. i'll let you guys know and give an update. i gotta find some cash and make my way to the dealership. i don't think its anything to do with the trans......i'm pretty sure the bearings are shot. Also, since i am going to replace the belt, i need a belt rooting diagram. any of you guys no where i can get one from here or anywhere???

[Twisted-X]

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d10/95d77a22/belt.jpg


supercharger noise is usually the sound of a tranny problem, not pulley

Actually, I can confirm that it does in fact come from the idler pulley. If I put my ear right next to it and rev the motor to 4k, its very obvious.

[emsep]

sounds likt its time for a new pulley and belt. its easy to do. theres a thread somewhere on here that shows you how to releast the tension on the belt. gl

[DA9_GSR]

mechanics have a stethoscope to pinpoint the noise at a bearing. You could use a long flat screw driver. Touch the end of the screw driver on the pulley bolt while it's idling. Then place your palm over the handle end of the screw driver while holding it against your ear. You should be able to pinpoint the noise.

P.S. In case it's not obvious, be careful not to jam the screw driver into the belt

[EP3CHRiS]

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d10/95d77a22/belt.jpg



Actually, I can confirm that it does in fact come from the idler pulley. If I put my ear right next to it and rev the motor to 4k, its very obvious.


mechanics have a stethoscope to pinpoint the noise at a bearing. You could use a long flat screw driver. Touch the end of the screw driver on the pulley bolt while it's idling. Then place your palm over the handle end of the screw driver while holding it against your ear. You should be able to pinpoint the noise.

P.S. In case it's not obvious, be careful not to jam the screw driver into the belt

Thanks for the diagram Twisted, this is gonna come in handy. I'm gonna try the screw driver trick and see what comes up, but most likely, since i am already just about at 150 K, i'll replace everything, belt, pulley and tensioner. I'll update in a little while

cheers guys.

[SilentEp3]

Good Info guys subscribed

[Slip_Angle]

Decided to replace my drive belt since it had some cracking on the inside. After installing the new belt and checking the tensioner all looked good but I started to hear an oscillating/whooping sound. It pretty quiet and seems to go away after some driving but I can't determine the cause.

I decided to replace the idler pulley and the tensioner pulley but the sound still exists. I checked the alternator pulley and it seems fine.

Any ideas what to check next?

[RedSiBaron]

If you still have your a/c, you may want to check your a/c clutch

[RHCP0801]

happened to me, take the belt off and start the car up. If the noise goes away you know its either the new belt or another pulley. Another thing you can which is what i did was spray the belt with soapy water and if the noise goes away you know its the belt. Mine went away after i sprayed it and the belt is brand new, i just dont care that much because the noise goes away after a bit

[EP3CHRiS]

So, i just went to Honda, to get some prices on a new belt, pulley and tensioner.... The sound kinnda went away, but with the weather change, its loud and comes on everyday now....:mcry:, parts guy said that the tensioner and pulley come as one complete piece, so i'm probably gonna pick it up tomorrow.....I noticed that the engine mount is kindda in the way....don't have to remove do it?? i'll find some more info on it, but anyone know if the mount has to come out???

Thanks

[EP3CHRiS]

supercharger noise is usually the sound of a tranny problem, not pulley

care to explain??

[RHCP0801]

well the parts guy is wrong because i bought the tensioner pulley separate from the tensioner itself. It comes out easy and the motor mount is in the way but you can still get it out with it in there. Like i said before take the belt off and start up the car, if the noise goes away its one of the pulleys, if the noise is still there its probably something internal in the engine. Also as its making noise spray some silicon spray or soapy water on the inside of the belt to see if it goes away, if it does the belt itself is bad

the supercharge noise from the tranny usually happens during acceleration and means the gears inside are going bad

[j0000stin]

supercharger noise is usually the sound of a tranny problem, not pulley

or an alternator haha

[EP3CHRiS]

well the parts guy is wrong because i bought the tensioner pulley separate from the tensioner itself. It comes out easy and the motor mount is in the way but you can still get it out with it in there. Like i said before take the belt off and start up the car, if the noise goes away its one of the pulleys, if the noise is still there its probably something internal in the engine. Also as its making noise spray some silicon spray or soapy water on the inside of the belt to see if it goes away, if it does the belt itself is bad

the supercharge noise from the tranny usually happens during acceleration and means the gears inside are going bad

Hey guys, just thought i'd give an update. Ordered a Belt, Tensioner & Idler Pulley. I thought since i'm going there, i should do everything. Plus, its good time for some regular maintenance. So, i don't have to remove the engine mount?? But how much more of a pain in the ass will it be??

[RHCP0801]

its not much of a pain in the ass at all

[Slip_Angle]

It's simple. Nothing to it really.

My belt noise seems to be getter better so I'll give it some more time before I yank it. I bought a Dayco belt against my better judgement but that's all I could find locally...

[EP3CHRiS]

Hey guys, well i finally got some time to get back to this strange noise i have been having for a while. If your not to
familiar, check out the YouTube vid i posted earlier....Well, long story short, i replaced the belt tensioner, top idler pulley and belt to see if this noise would go away, but i had no such luck. I noticed that the sound completely went away for a couple of months, but now its starting to creep back up. A few days after i did the replacement, i went to my local
Honda dealer and just asked one of the Techs there. He kinda looked at me weird because it was really hard to explain
what kind of sound this was. Finally, i went outside to show him and he was speechless. He told me this was the first
time he has ever heard something like this.....he never new where to begin. He mentioned that there is a similar sound
on the Honda Odyssey's with there power steering pumps. He explained every time the car would make a turn, the noise
would happen, BUT this was happening without me turning the steering wheel. He told me it was a good idea to replace
the tensioner, belt and idler pulley, but he really has no idea......Just an update for any other guys having this problem...
i'm stuck on this issue......again.

[Rasy]

I don't have a solution, but I believe I'm going through the same issue as you. I created a thread and posted a video over in the Engine sub-forum here:

http://www.ephatch.com/forum/showthread.php?64749-Trying-to-diagnose-this-sound

I haven't gotten around to taking off my belt and seeing if anything is off, but I will say that I recently replaced my belt with the OEM one and the idler pulley when it seized up and melted.

I also replaced my AC compressor, though it was making the noise before I did.

It's very noticeable at idle. :(

[SHG_EasyE]

It may or may not be your water pump. I bought a high mileage A2 swap last year and when I turn the water pump pulley (no belt installed) it makes a low howling sound, as if a seal is swelled and binding or the bearing is damaged.

Have you tried peoples reccomendations to run the engine with the belt off to see if the noise still occurs? I think that would be the next sensible option.

[Rasy]

It may or may not be your water pump. I bought a high mileage A2 swap last year and when I turn the water pump pulley (no belt installed) it makes a low howling sound, as if a seal is swelled and binding or the bearing is damaged.

Have you tried peoples reccomendations to run the engine with the belt off to see if the noise still occurs? I think that would be the next sensible option.

I inspected my car today and the only pulley that had play was the water pump pulley. Of course, when I slapped the belt on and ran the car, the water pump pulley vibrates at ~2,000 rpm. It goes away if I'm at 1,500 or 2,500. The newly introduced vibration happened this Friday.

Do I need to replace the whole thing, or just the pulley? I'm guessing the bearing(s) are shot. Difficulty?

[EP3CHRiS]

It may or may not be your water pump. I bought a high mileage A2 swap last year and when I turn the water pump pulley (no belt installed) it makes a low howling sound, as if a seal is swelled and binding or the bearing is damaged.

Have you tried peoples reccomendations to run the engine with the belt off to see if the noise still occurs? I think that would be the next sensible option.

I never thought about the water pump for my mysterious noise. Next week i have to do a oil change so i guess i'll check
it then. I noticed this entire week, every time i parked at work, the noise would be there. But the thing is it would have
long noises one day, then short occurs another.......the first thing ill do will take the belt off. I'll update then, thanks for the hand.

[SHG_EasyE]

I inspected my car today and the only pulley that had play was the water pump pulley. Of course, when I slapped the belt on and ran the car, the water pump pulley vibrates at ~2,000 rpm. It goes away if I'm at 1,500 or 2,500. The newly introduced vibration happened this Friday.

Do I need to replace the whole thing, or just the pulley? I'm guessing the bearing(s) are shot. Difficulty?

You'll need to replace the whole thing. The bearings are internal in the pump itself, its not a serviceable unit unfortunately.


I never thought about the water pump for my mysterious noise. Next week i have to do a oil change so i guess i'll check
it then. I noticed this entire week, every time i parked at work, the noise would be there. But the thing is it would have
long noises one day, then short occurs another.......the first thing ill do will take the belt off. I'll update then, thanks for the hand.

Yeah man, I cant say that its your problem but its definitely something to look at. I think you should try removing the belt and run the car. That will really help narrow it down. Intermittent problems are such a bitch!

[Rasy]

You'll need to replace the whole thing. The bearings are internal in the pump itself, its not a serviceable unit unfortunately.


So I can't just get #1 & #2 on here?:

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=CIVIC&catcgry2=2003&catcgry3=3DR+SI&catcgry4=KA5MT&catcgry5=WATER+PUMP+-+SENSOR

Also, the service manual says to remove the crankshaft pulley first, but requires a special holder and attachment (part #s 07JAB-001020A and 07NAB-001040A, respectively) - and those two alone total $100. Is there a workaround to that or a store where I can get the tools for cheaper?

[Twisted-X]

#2 comes with #1 when you buy #1 (the water pump). You can buy the special holder tool on Amazon or E-bay for $27 or so (Honda Crank Pulley Tool). On the Accord I had to get a 4' piece of 1/4" wall pipe from the hardware store to put over the end of my 3' breaker bar to get the crank pulley bolt off. I used two 1' extensions on a 19mm impact grade socket, and put a jack-stand under the 1' extensions to hold them up while attempting to break the crank bolt free. All the while you'll have another socket on the crank pulley tool to keep it from moving.
Here's a pic. The K-series is on the passengers side, but same idea.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e64/smart-aleck/Miscellaneous/Timing%20Belt%20How-To/CrankshaftPulleyBoltRemoval2.jpg



I haven't done a K-series water pump yet, but it looks like the crank pulley will be in the way of some of the water pump bolts and the removal of it.

[Rasy]

Thanks for the great info. Here's an update.

It turns out, for me at least (not sure about the OP), to be the water pump. I replaced it with the OEM one and installed with minor issues. Some tips:

- The manual says to remove the crank pulley to access the water pump. Even with a 1/2" breaker bar and a 5' cheater pipe, I couldn't get it loose. Also tried the starter trick, nothing. I had taken it to an Acura dealership where a friend just loosened it with an air impact gun (1200 lbs. of torque!), and re-tightened it to a modest 75 lbs. so I could get it off at home.
- Remove the Idler and the auto-tensioner pulleys, it'll make accessing the top three water pump bracket bolts much easier.
- Two of the bottom water pump bracket bolts (bottom, and bottom-left) were easy, but the bottom-right was a pain. Make sure you have a small enough 1/4" ratchet and small hands that can navigate such a tight space.
- It's a good time to change out the coolant (never done mine until now at 109K), and I used the OEM 50/50 Type 2 Coolant. It was this nice, unexpected blue. The old one was pretty clean and green, so I suppose Honda did a good job with engineering their coolant.

[ep3demon]

my car does the same thing and to let u know it just snapped off it was the automatic belt tensioner i guessed it after looking at these pics
it is the biggest one at the top in the second pic my car started steaming made it home and pulled out the pulley.

[EP3CHRiS]

Thanks for the great info. Here's an update.

It turns out, for me at least (not sure about the OP), to be the water pump. I replaced it with the OEM one and installed with minor issues. Some tips:

- The manual says to remove the crank pulley to access the water pump. Even with a 1/2" breaker bar and a 5' cheater pipe, I couldn't get it loose. Also tried the starter trick, nothing. I had taken it to an Acura dealership where a friend just loosened it with an air impact gun (1200 lbs. of torque!), and re-tightened it to a modest 75 lbs. so I could get it off at home.
- Remove the Idler and the auto-tensioner pulleys, it'll make accessing the top three water pump bracket bolts much easier.
- Two of the bottom water pump bracket bolts (bottom, and bottom-left) were easy, but the bottom-right was a pain. Make sure you have a small enough 1/4" ratchet and small hands that can navigate such a tight space.
- It's a good time to change out the coolant (never done mine until now at 109K), and I used the OEM 50/50 Type 2 Coolant. It was this nice, unexpected blue. The old one was pretty clean and green, so I suppose Honda did a good job with engineering their coolant.


Hey guys, never really checked the post after my last, but i am most likely going to do a water pump and coolant
change in the coming weeks. Thanks for the info once again......The water pumps the only thing i never looked at yet. If its the problem, great, but if not then atleast its good service for the car. The noise has pretty much vanished, yet again.....It rarely comes now, but it still creeps up once and a while......Hopefully what SHG said with the "howling noise" and it
being the water pump, this works.....I'll keep you guys updated


Thanks

[LeeStrange]

Hey guys,

I've had a weird engine noise for about a month now. It sounds like a bearing howl, like a squealing/squeaking/clicking noise coming from underneath the car, but it only makes the noise at idle.
The second I put any pressure on the gas pedal, the noise immediately disappears.

Could this be something to do with the IAVC (Idle Air Control Valve)?
I'm going to try cleaning that tonight.


I've looked through this whole thread, but it seems like all of your symptoms only get louder the higher the RPM, correct?
Mine disappear entirely when any throttle is used.
It doesn't go away depending on whether the engine is cold/warm, and even if I've driven the car for an hour or so, it will still make the noise, rain or shine.

Any ideas? Could it be this Water Pump bearing issue everyone is having?

[RHCP0801]

take the belt off the car and start it up, if you don't hear the noise anymore than the belt is whats causing the squealing sound. If you do it hear than it could be a bottom end problem like the bearings are going bad or the waterpump which is a pretty common problem on the k series and that is also towards the bottom of the car. The IACV will not cause a bearing howl noise

[talonXracer]

take the belt off the car and start it up, if you don't hear the noise anymore than the belt is whats causing the squealing sound. If you do it hear than it could be a bottom end problem like the bearings are going bad or the waterpump which is a pretty common problem on the k series and that is also towards the bottom of the car. The IACV will not cause a bearing howl noise


Not quite right, if you remove the belt, it could also be the waterpump as without the belt it too would not be making any sound, or the A/C pulley/bearings, alternator or tensioner pulley bearings.

[Rasy]

Hey guys,

I've had a weird engine noise for about a month now. It sounds like a bearing howl, like a squealing/squeaking/clicking noise coming from underneath the car, but it only makes the noise at idle.
The second I put any pressure on the gas pedal, the noise immediately disappears.

Could this be something to do with the IAVC (Idle Air Control Valve)?
I'm going to try cleaning that tonight.


I've looked through this whole thread, but it seems like all of your symptoms only get louder the higher the RPM, correct?
Mine disappear entirely when any throttle is used.
It doesn't go away depending on whether the engine is cold/warm, and even if I've driven the car for an hour or so, it will still make the noise, rain or shine.

Any ideas? Could it be this Water Pump bearing issue everyone is having?

Actually, my started at idle, then went away at higher rpms because of the higher frequency. It did get worse though and was more apparent throughout 2-3k rpms. It sounds like you're try to hack up a spit/howling. For me it was the water pump, and it seems like I wasn't the first one if you look at older topics.

[LeeStrange]

Actually, my started at idle, then went away at higher rpms because of the higher frequency. It did get worse though and was more apparent throughout 2-3k rpms. It sounds like you're try to hack up a spit/howling. For me it was the water pump, and it seems like I wasn't the first one if you look at older topics.

My howl has become more of a clicking noise, now, and completely disappears at anything over idle (literally the split-second you tap the gas, it disappears).
Its not just engine noise drowning it out.
I will try taking off my belt this weekend.