4 lug or 5 lug??

[eroxer310]

ok so i was searching for why people think its stupid to go from 5 lug to 4 lug, i found this thread -----> http://www.ephatch.com/forum/showthread.php?56687-5-lug-to-4-lug/page1<------ but there is no info here on WHY its better to have a 5 lug instead of 4 lug???
WHATS THE DIFFERENCE?????

[bchaney]

More wheels are available in 5 lug

[eroxer310]

is that it??? there has to be more reasons why people consider it a downgrade to go from 5 to 4!

[DrZfInEsT]

You have better and more aggressive wheel choices with 5 lug as opposed to 4 lug.Especially with 17 inch wheels.Also most of todays cars are 5 lug.

[eroxer310]

lmao still did not answer my question, why is it considered a downgrade, does it effect performance or what

[sLiCk]

It will not effect performance going to 4lug. In "theory" 5 lug would be stronger but nothing that would make a difference on a road car.

[PAPITUYO326]

Stock 5 lug eps have it easier in terms of OEM big brake upgrades. You can switch to a type s setup rather easily. Why switch to 4?

With that said, I did the 5 lug swap and haven't noticed any change in city driving braking. I haven't done any HPDEs, so I can't comment on the improvement under constant braking or heavy loads but I am sure it is there.

[ep_hatcher_510]

lmao still did not answer my question, why is it considered a downgrade, does it effect performance or what

is a downgrade because you go from 5 to 4, and is always better to have more.

[Tougeep3]

5 lug-Star, 4 lug- square.

Biggest advantage to having more lugs per wheel is that by spreading the loads to more points you reduce warping of brake rotors. Through the '80s as cars got smaller and their performance rose, 4 lug cars had terrible problems with rotor warpage esp. if the lugs were unevenly torqued.

Along with being able to reduce bolt size, another reason to have more than 4 lug nuts on a semi is to create more even clamping pressure. Clamping force under a bolt head or lug nut is shaped like a cone and drops off fairly rapidly as you move away from the nut. So to keep from over stressing the wheel in just 3 or 4 places (underneath the nut), more studs are added to more evenly distribute the load. A bigger vehicle with greater torque to the wheels needs more clamping force. An easy way to generate more clamping force, and increase the total shear strength of the studs without upping the size of the lug studs, is to add more studs of the same size.

One (partial) fallacy is that the lugs support the weight of the car. Not so, they hold the wheel in position so the the hubs can carry the weight. The lugs are then only subject to tensile forces for cornering loads and a small shear load for braking and accelleration forces. Yes, some cars are lug-centric (aftermarket wheels without hubcentric rings have this problem), where the wheel is centered by the cone-shaped lug nuts (or bolts) but these are pretty scarce these days. (Most cars have cone shaped lugs but are still hub-centric.)

Not to mention snap a stud on a 5 lug car and you still have 4.

But yes, you'll find more wheels and brake upgrades for the 5 lug..

[T_Virus]

I think the only advantage of 4 lug is to get the lugs off quicker as you need to only remove 4 instead of 5. hahaha...

[EPo3Hatch]

There isn't any difference in braking performance. The only advantage of five lug is a better selection of oem wheels. I will agree with the breaking a lug part as well. Better to brake one and have four left

[zdiddy22]

I drove a friends car with 4 lug, and noticed no difference with braking/handling. they only thing that i found is wheel selection is better for 5 lug.

[ep3jd]

i dont understand why these threads pop up. why do you want to do this??? i'm swapping to 5 lug in about a month. just need axles and some wheels now.

type s rotors are 11.8" whereas oem ep3 rotors are 10.3" (for both 4 and 5 lug) but the upgrade to type s brakes on 04-05 is easy and a great idea for so many reasons..
ss lines and type s brakes make a huge difference over the oem 5 lug for our cars.. taking that straight from a friend who did this.. i just don't see why you would downgrade. its literally a downgrade.. honda puts out a 4 lug.. realizes 5 is the better option, then corrects the issue.. unfortunately they didn't give the same set up as the type s but oh well..

plus when you go to sell your car and you have to explain to the person that if they go to service their car to let the mechanic know to buy 02-03 rotors instead of 04-05 because you wanted to buy shitty knock off wheels that didnt come in 5 lug... :mconfused:


my .02

[zdiddy22]

i dont understand why these threads pop up. why do you want to do this??? i'm swapping to 5 lug in about a month. just need axles and some wheels now.

type s rotors are 11.8" whereas oem ep3 rotors are 10.3" (for both 4 and 5 lug) but the upgrade to type s brakes on 04-05 is easy and a great idea for so many reasons..
ss lines and type s brakes make a huge difference over the oem 5 lug for our cars.. taking that straight from a friend who did this.. i just don't see why you would downgrade. its literally a downgrade.. honda puts out a 4 lug.. realizes 5 is the better option, then corrects the issue.. unfortunately they didn't give the same set up as the type s but oh well..

plus when you go to sell your car and you have to explain to the person that if they go to service their car to let the mechanic know to buy 02-03 rotors instead of 04-05 because you wanted to buy shitty knock off wheels that didnt come in 5 lug... :mconfused:


my .02

i completely agree....

[civictype_r04]

Stock 5 lug eps have it easier in terms of OEM big brake upgrades. You can switch to a type s setup rather easily. Why switch to 4?

With that said, I did the 5 lug swap and haven't noticed any change in city driving braking. I haven't done any HPDEs, so I can't comment on the improvement under constant braking or heavy loads but I am sure it is there.

Thats what I'm running the type S brakes up front...

[RedSiBaron]

When I swapped over to the full type s brakes, including master cylinder and prop valve I noticed a huge difference in the braking performance

The type s brake setup is the same brakes that came on the ep3 type r...except the calipers don't say type r on them...big deal

[2k3hatchie]

I had my heart set on swapping to 5-lug. But after finding the new wheels I plan to get come in 4 lug, and weighing how much it will cost to replace my winter wheels and tires (stock 15's won't clear the type s brakes) I've decided to just stay 4 lug. I can upgrade the front brakes to 11'' with SS lines for short money, keep my stockies, and still have nice wheels with improved braking.

[RedSiBaron]

I had my heart set on swapping to 5-lug. But after finding the new wheels I plan to get come in 4 lug, and weighing how much it will cost to replace my winter wheels and tires (stock 15's won't clear the type s brakes) I've decided to just stay 4 lug. I can upgrade the front brakes to 11'' for short money, keep my stockies, and still have nice wheels with improved braking.

Ya that's why I went to 5 lug early before I got into wheels and tires

[2k3hatchie]

Ya that's why I went to 5 lug early before I got into wheels and tires

Yea, live and learn I suppose.

The moral of the story: 5 lug has its benefits (bigger brakes, type-s parts, more wheel choices) but many of those can also be achieved with 4 lug (4-lug big brake kits are available and there are still a fairly large number of good wheels in 4X100). Whatever you decide to do, decide early!

[ragebomb]

5 lug-Star, 4 lug- square.

Biggest advantage to having more lugs per wheel is that by spreading the loads to more points you reduce warping of brake rotors. Through the '80s as cars got smaller and their performance rose, 4 lug cars had terrible problems with rotor warpage esp. if the lugs were unevenly torqued.

Along with being able to reduce bolt size, another reason to have more than 4 lug nuts on a semi is to create more even clamping pressure. Clamping force under a bolt head or lug nut is shaped like a cone and drops off fairly rapidly as you move away from the nut. So to keep from over stressing the wheel in just 3 or 4 places (underneath the nut), more studs are added to more evenly distribute the load. A bigger vehicle with greater torque to the wheels needs more clamping force. An easy way to generate more clamping force, and increase the total shear strength of the studs without upping the size of the lug studs, is to add more studs of the same size.

One (partial) fallacy is that the lugs support the weight of the car. Not so, they hold the wheel in position so the the hubs can carry the weight. The lugs are then only subject to tensile forces for cornering loads and a small shear load for braking and accelleration forces. Yes, some cars are lug-centric (aftermarket wheels without hubcentric rings have this problem), where the wheel is centered by the cone-shaped lug nuts (or bolts) but these are pretty scarce these days. (Most cars have cone shaped lugs but are still hub-centric.)

Not to mention snap a stud on a 5 lug car and you still have 4.

But yes, you'll find more wheels and brake upgrades for the 5 lug..

Woah, that's the best technical reason I've read so far. Nicely done..

I swapped my 02 4-lug for 5-lugs from a Type-S also. I can feel a difference on braking. And yep there are more wheels available, especially the newer oem Civic wheels or any wheel 17" or larger.

The EP seems to fit into a weird "fuzzy zone" when it comes to wheel sizes. I've seen it look great with 15 and 16" rims, but also amazing with some 17 and 18" rims.

But yeah if I had a 04 or 05 EP I would never replace the stock setup with a 4 lug.

[Tougeep3]

Ya that's why I went to 5 lug early before I got into wheels and tires

I just like being able to use my stockies as winter wheels.. One less set to buy.