2nd Gear Grind

[logos22]

So, my car has begun to grind a little bit whenever I shift from 1st to 2nd. It's weird though because it doesn't happen at every shift. I usually am in first gear until about 3k rpm and then shift, sometimes grinds, sometimes not. Other times, I shift at lower rpms, barely moving in 1st, and it grinds...sometimes. Currently, I'm reving to about 3k to get my car moving, popping into neutral and waiting about 1-1.5 seconds and letting the rpms drop before I go to second, and it sometimes helps. I've noticed fewer grinds with this method. I have yet to have a gear pop out on me though, thankfully. Do I have a busted syncro or do I just need to change the transmission fluid? I am the second owner so I don't know the last time it was changed. Please tell me it's the latter because I don't want to drop hundreds of dollars on a fix. Also, I've tried double clutching and I haven't really noticed a difference. Thanks :)

[whatsvtec]

If you're grinding that much you probably need some work. I would get grind when shifting at 5k plus if I threw it hard, changed my trans fluid with redline mtl and now it's like butter. A little notchy, but barely ever grinds

[logos22]

Yeah, I forgot to mention that when I push it past 3k, maybe like 4-5 ish, it doesn't grind, or at least not that I can tell. Also, I only drive my car once a week. Does that have anything to do with it? I also noticed that it grinds more when my car is cold, but I guess that's pretty common with all cars. I just want to clarify that it's not a super loud grind like if I were to mis-shift or not push in the clutch; my friend couldn't even hear it when I pointed it out. I guess being the driver I can feel it through the gear leaver.

[AKEP]

yeah just change the fluid. that should really help. if it keeps grinding then you'll need to buy a new 2nd gear sleeve...

[musashi1219]

Why are you revving to three k to get the car moving? I am thinking you are simply shifting incorrectly, that is a very common problem with the "second / third gear grind" issue everyone talks about/

[Paul 631]

He's taking 1st gear to 3k rpm before shifting into 2nd, not reving to 3k in neutral before putting it in first...

[zdiddy22]

sounds like a synchro is messed up. my third gear synchro was jacked up.

[RedSiBaron]

Why are you revving to three k to get the car moving? I am thinking you are simply shifting incorrectly, that is a very common problem with the "second / third gear grind" issue everyone talks about/

Im not going to read anymore of this thread because musashi nailed it on the head...I don't have the issue because I match the speed of the engine to the trans to time my shifts...so it comes down to timing upshifts and rev matching downshifts, I don't even need the clutch to shift without a grind...it all comes down to you're doing it wrong...

[gtimportfanatic]

i usually grind if i bounce off the limiter once or so.. but if i drive normal i have no issue.. i think imma switch to redline instead of the acura MTF

[RedSiBaron]

i usually grind if i bounce off the limiter once or so.. but if i drive normal i have no issue.. i think imma switch to redline instead of the acura MTF

I really liked redline mtf when I ran it, very smooth...I've got honda mtf right now cuz I have a case of it and didn't have any redline when I was putting the transmission back in

[Passenger]

Another thread concluded with the helpless "driver error" answer..

[emsep]

i have the same problem, i just shift slower. works for me

[AKEP]

my third is messed up (not for long!) and it causes me to not shift above 3.5k without grinding. and thats normal granny shifting:mfrown:. i have to shift like a noob from 2nd-3rd.

if you do repair it by yourself, you have alot of work ahead of you =\ or deep pockets.

[musashi1219]

He's taking 1st gear to 3k rpm before shifting into 2nd, not reving to 3k in neutral before putting it in first...
are you sure
'I'm reving to about 3k to get my car moving,'


Im not going to read anymore of this thread because musashi nailed it on the head...I don't have the issue because I match the speed of the engine to the trans to time my shifts...so it comes down to timing upshifts and rev matching downshifts, I don't even need the clutch to shift without a grind...it all comes down to you're doing it wrong...

yup

[logos22]

Why are you revving to three k to get the car moving? I am thinking you are simply shifting incorrectly, that is a very common problem with the "second / third gear grind" issue everyone talks about/

Ok, I'm not sure if we are on the same page. I am in first gear and moving when I take it to 3k before shifting to 2nd, not revving to 3k then letting up the clutch to start moving. Sorry If what I wrote before was confusing. So now that we have that cleared up, what am I doing wrong exactly? I make sure that the clutch pedal is all the way down before shifting and make sure I'm in gear before releasing it up again. Also, I took the car out for a spin last night and didn't notice a single grind. I guess waiting about a second before shifting is the most effective method, so far at least. Anyway, I know that sounds like a good thing, but it's confusing me because my grinds are so inconsistent.

[AKEP]

have someone drive with you thats been driving a while. like. 6 years in a manual. and they'll tell you if you're shifting like a retard or your tranmission is messed up.

synchros will grind at the same rpm for a consistant shift speed. ie no matter what i do, if i hold my engine at 3.5k and put it in third, it will grind.

driver error/retard shifting is pretty much that. you're slamming through gears too fast. the gears have to slow down before they mesh together.

[logos22]

have someone drive with you thats been driving a while. like. 6 years in a manual. and they'll tell you if you're shifting like a retard or your tranmission is messed up.

synchros will grind at the same rpm for a consistant shift speed. ie no matter what i do, if i hold my engine at 3.5k and put it in third, it will grind.

driver error/retard shifting is pretty much that. you're slamming through gears too fast. the gears have to slow down before they mesh together.


Ok, so if I'm just sitting in neutral and hold my engine at 3.5 or whatever rpm I usually hear the grind and then put the car in second, it should grind? I think I remember hearing about that test somewhere, maybe a youtube video or something. Since you sound experienced, how long should I wait before shifting gears? Thanks

[AKEP]

it should just be a natural shift movement, no jerking, just a flick of the wrist.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v673/tacobill35/MGW%20shifter%20install/?action=view&current=MVI_3159_MPEG.mp4&sort=ascending
^after his first couple shifts, thats a normal shift.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhEsQi_BFfs
^pretty much how not to shift normally. believe it or not, some people shift (while driving in a normal fashion) like this all the time. They just don't know any better i suppose...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucoovZ-wwGA
normal shifting, then powershifting. the normal shifting is a little fast, but its an S2000, thats normal for them. the powershifting later on is obviously speeding, but if your not trying to race anyone, you shouldn't be shifting like that in the ep3.

i think, unfortunatly, your 2nd gear synchros are toast. it happens.

[Paul 631]

That second clip is how to powershift properly doing minimum damage/wear to your syncros and clutch , the 3rd is how to do it poorly (smearing the clutch etc)...

[logos22]

Shoot...I kinda had a gut feeling that the synchro was toast. Well, about how much would it cost to repair something like that? Also, would my warranty cover the repair? Is it harmful to my car to just continue driving without fixing it and just shifting slowly into 2nd?

[USAF EP3]

By the time you've gotten the transmission case cracked opened, removed the gear(s) and synchro(s) and paid for new gear(s) and syncro(s), you would be better off buying another used transmission in good condition. Of course you need to make sure its from a legit source. Also, before Doug (talonxracer) chimes in, I'm gonna go ahead and tell you his advice he's told others: change your transmission fluid/oil at least every other engine oil change, it'll save you future grinding headaches.

[AKEP]

Shoot...I kinda had a gut feeling that the synchro was toast. Well, about how much would it cost to repair something like that? Also, would my warranty cover the repair? Is it harmful to my car to just continue driving without fixing it and just shifting slowly into 2nd?

they wouldn't cover mine under warrantee only because i didn't have proof. i used to work at jiffy lube so i didn't have to pay for anything. so yeah, its possible but you have to fight for it.

and yeah, by the time you got all that done, then you might as well have bought a used one. i dont like buying used transmission because its too late when you find out it has a messed up 2nd-3rd gear. unless you buy it from a dismantler with a warranty.

[logos22]

By the time you've gotten the transmission case cracked opened, removed the gear(s) and synchro(s) and paid for new gear(s) and syncro(s), you would be better off buying another used transmission in good condition. Of course you need to make sure its from a legit source. Also, before Doug (talonxracer) chimes in, I'm gonna go ahead and tell you his advice he's told others: change your transmission fluid/oil at least every other engine oil change, it'll save you future grinding headaches.

Would I need to change the gears too? I thought it was just a synchro problem. The grinding is pretty recent too so I don't think the gears should be damaged, right?

[USAF EP3]

The gears are grinding because the synchros are out. If you're going to replace the synchros, you have to remove the gears too, they're all installed together. Change the affected parts if you're planning on repairing your transmission, you'll thank yourself later when you do. Also, if you're really gung ho about fixing your transmission, I HIGHLY recommend adding a 6th gear from an 06+ Si and/or TSX while you have your transmission taken apart. There's a write up on the forums if you search with a detailed list of what you need for it.

[AKEP]

The gears are grinding because the synchros are out. If you're going to replace the synchros, you have to remove the gears too, they're all installed together. Change the affected parts if you're planning on repairing your transmission, you'll thank yourself later when you do. Also, if you're really gung ho about fixing your transmission, I HIGHLY recommend adding a 6th gear from an 06+ Si and/or TSX while you have your transmission taken apart. There's a write up on the forums if you search with a detailed list of what you need for it.

this. you can't even buy the syncros alone, you have to order the sleeve set, which gives you a new gear too. it makes sense. if you wait till feb/march-ish i'll have pics/vids up from when i do mine.

[sLiCk]

Yep there's a reason why you get it as a set. The clutching teeth on the gear and the engaging splines on the sleeve starts to round off when it wears which partially causes the hard shifting and grinding.

[logos22]

Well I finally took my car in to the dealer and the mechanic said there was nothing wrong with my synchros. He said that it's normal for there to be a little sound when moving from the smallest gear up. He said that if there was in fact a problem, my 2nd gear would be popping out on me and I would feel the grind in both the shift lever and the clutch pedal. He went on a drive with me and he said that shifting from 1st to 2nd at 3k rpms is a little high and showed me that shifting at 2.5k rpms eliminated the problem completely. Now I haven't had a grind (or what I thought was one) when shifting at 2.5k rpm. There was more to his explanation, but I'm not super familiar with the technical jargon. Part of me didn't really believe him and thought that they were just bullshitting to avoid a repair, but the other part of me is happy that there might not be a problem. Im curious what you guys think. Is there any truth to what he said? Thanks.

[USAF EP3]

Bullshit.

[Paul 631]

... they were just bullshitting to avoid a repair

Yes.

[logos22]

hmm, two people call bullshit so far. Well, at least at 2.5k rpms i don't have a problem anymore. I have no idea why that is the case, but I'm glad I have at least a temporary fix. I also asked them about the warranty and they said that they would have to do the inspection, for which they would charge me $100 or something before they could determine if the trans is covered. So basically I would be backed into a corner to either take the $100 loss or pay them the $700ish for the repair (assuming it wasn't covered). Some people have suggested just getting a used transmission because it would be cheaper than repairing this one. Would riding this one until it's un-driveable and then get a used one be the best move at this point?

[AKEP]

yeah its bs. the manual says to shift between 3-4k. i was told my a mech that normal driving is done under 4k. normal driving conditions are the only thing they will cover under warrantee. i say take it to another dealer and see what they say.

[USAF EP3]

Get a used 02-04 Type S transmission and ride yours around. It's a straight swap and plug and play for the sensors. Just make sure you match flywheels with clutch.

Example: EP3 Flywheel/clutch combo OR Type S Flywheel/Clutch combo.

NEVER mix match, it won't work.