PDA

View Full Version : running scared???



newep
01-03-2011, 03:23 PM
I think I have a problem.......I think?

Last winter I swapped in a K24A1 and 06 tranny into my 04 ep3. the motor was running with the A3 Intake manifold, cold air intake, OBX race header,2.5 mid pipe, stock resonator and muffler and running modified 270 injectors (so 480cc) NO KPRO.

It ran fine (i know the risks of not having real engine management). I know it was running very rich and had the CEL code to match.
I drove all winter and summer like this, car felt fine, no problems other than the occasional bad fuel mileage; when that would happen ( 200ish kms to a tank) all i would do is reset the computer and the mileage would return back to normal, Cel code would return within a few minutes.

this Fall i swapped in a RBB manifold , stock throttle body and now a short intake. I felt more mid range and was very happy, CEL still on!

3 days ago i was getting poor mileage. I reset the computer and didn't do my idle relearn,I just drove it. NO CEL????? It hasn't come back yet. It runs perfect, idles perfect, and even the exhaust smells normal( different from the usual rich smell)

What gives? did the stock computer just learn how to deal with the massive amounts of fuel?
Anyone? Should I be worried or happy?

T_Virus
01-03-2011, 05:42 PM
Please give details of "runs perfect, idles perfect, and exhaust smells normal...

superchargedk20
01-03-2011, 08:34 PM
i thought it would be running lean with boltons if ur on the a3 ecu?

newep
01-03-2011, 08:52 PM
the engine should not be running lean with 480cc injectors in it. Even if the computer leans out as much as possible its still massively over fueling. That's also why i tried the RBB intake as the added air volume and runner length should have helped compensate for the added fuel.

As for the description of running perfect, its exactly that. No rough idle, its the same as it was with the K20. Same goes for the power delivery all the way through the RPM band-smooth and predictable-thank you torque and LSD :). the smell is usually rich, but now that the CEL is off, it smells like normal prefect 14.7:1 burnt exhaust.

makavelibranded
01-03-2011, 10:04 PM
did you get the cel looked up?

im sorry but why put all that money into a setup and not get engine management,.. just a typical stupid cut corners thread again

newep
01-03-2011, 11:29 PM
yes its always the same CEL flash code 45 and OBD11 code Po172-Fuel system too rich.
Yes I do agree that for this set up to run without any problems i need kpro and I'm well aware that running rich all the time, might lead to problems later down the road..., pre ignition, fouled plugs, replacing O2 sensors.....engine death. But that's not the issue at hand.

So you know ive only invested just over 700 into the motor so far. Dropping 1100+ for the computer seems a bit wrong. I am saving but its not high on the list of priorities.

makavelibranded
01-03-2011, 11:45 PM
It should be #1 I swear if you got it tuned youd be amazed in the difference it can make in performance and gas milage.

AKEP
01-04-2011, 03:45 AM
It should be #1 I swear if you got it tuned youd be amazed in the difference it can make in performance and gas milage.

the money you'd save on gas would start to pay for itself, and then some. you get more out of every mod you do with an EMS.

talonXracer
01-04-2011, 06:12 AM
A engine that is running very rich will have a lower life expectancy, the cylinder walls are being fuel washed leading to excessive wear on the rings. You would have been far better off going with a set of 310 injectors.

The short term fuel trim will adjust the fuel trim to get a proper A/F, but as soon as you enter open loop(accel) you are running on the existing fuel map without the fuel trim.

If you are dead set against proper tuning there is nothing we can do to begin to help you.

lbk02si
01-04-2011, 08:13 AM
I think I have a problem.......I think?

Last winter I swapped in a K24A1 and 06 tranny into my 04 ep3. the motor was running with the A3 Intake manifold, cold air intake, OBX race header,2.5 mid pipe, stock resonator and muffler and running modified 270 injectors (so 480cc) NO KPRO.

It ran fine (i know the risks of not having real engine management). I know it was running very rich and had the CEL code to match.
I drove all winter and summer like this, car felt fine, no problems other than the occasional bad fuel mileage; when that would happen ( 200ish kms to a tank) all i would do is reset the computer and the mileage would return back to normal, Cel code would return within a few minutes.

this Fall i swapped in a RBB manifold , stock throttle body and now a short intake. I felt more mid range and was very happy, CEL still on!

3 days ago i was getting poor mileage. I reset the computer and didn't do my idle relearn,I just drove it. NO CEL????? It hasn't come back yet. It runs perfect, idles perfect, and even the exhaust smells normal( different from the usual rich smell)

What gives? did the stock computer just learn how to deal with the massive amounts of fuel?
Anyone? Should I be worried or happy?

why are you spending all this money on these parts and not spending it on your ecu? (ie. kpro, or reflash)???? i can bet you anything that you car never "ran perfect".

Onasty
01-04-2011, 08:18 AM
:frusty: tired of seeing threads like this get KPRO it will fix all ur problems and call it a day. Why keep modding ur car without it ur gonna end up needing a new engine in the long run

newep
01-04-2011, 09:37 AM
Thanks everyone for the concern and for stressing the importance of proper engine management.

I AM NOT AGAINST PROPER TUNING, in fact i've been doing everything within my power to keep this engine running as best as possible, hence running 480 injectors instead of 270, using a wideband controller and gauge, checking the codes once a month, and doing all required maintenance.

As I said I am saving up for a computer that's worth more than what I've put into my car so far, until that point I'm doing what I can.
Honestly I hope I don't receive this much resistance when I ask questions about tuning when I do get Kpro.

I do have the 310 injectors from the RBB intake, Would they be a better choice at the moment then the 480's?
Or would the smaller injectors not provided enough fuel (lean conditions) for the supporting mods to the motor?

Thanks again

makavelibranded
01-04-2011, 10:55 AM
Since you have the wideband for now install the injectors, go on a short drive and watch the af if its too lean swap back to the 480's.

Twisted-X
01-04-2011, 03:24 PM
Is it possible that all the extra fuel has damaged the O2 to the point that it doesn't read too rich anymore?

mitchlikesbikes
01-05-2011, 06:26 PM
Is it possible that all the extra fuel has damaged the O2 to the point that it doesn't read too rich anymore?

this is what i was thinking

newep
01-07-2011, 11:26 PM
Im pretty sure the O2 sensor would give off a different code, heater circuit, improper voltage, lean reading... etc.

I attempted to switch in the 310 injectors.
After doing so the car would not start and pretty sure i was losing fuel pressure (gas gauge was dropped while i was cranking it over).
I pulled the 310's out, looked them over, not one had fired. I measured the ohms, all around 11.
Put the modded 270's back in, and it started right up.

Is it possible that the injectors are somehow completely plugged?
Are the 310's fired by different voltages then the 270's?