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Andrew
01-15-2011, 12:17 AM
For the past 6-8 months I have had the same nagging alignment problem. Which is my toe always is going off. I will go ahead and get an alignment to close to zero out my toe, but 2-3 months later when I come back to get it re aligned it's off 35-40 degrees. I don't know if this means I need tie rod ends are worn to shit and I need new ones. Note I am lowered about 2.5+ inches on megan racing coilovers. Also the shop said they cant adjust my caster because I have no caster kit! WTF? I also don't know if my alignment shop (firestone) is very good because everytime I leave the steering wheel is crooked. I have been lowered for about 25k miles and I can't think of anything else really. Please anyone put any input in. Thanks in advance.

Cliffs:
1) nagging alignment problem
2) toe is always off
3) go back to re align every 2-3 months
4) car is lowered 2.5+ inches
5) shop cant adjust caster?
6) input please

omgheyitskenny
01-15-2011, 01:56 AM
I've always measured how low by bottom fender to bottom tire for example from the bottom of my fender to bottom of my tire is 23inches. How low are you in those terms?

You should not be leaving the alignment shop with steering wheel not straight my local alignment shop does my friends VIP cars with mad camber with the steering wheel perfect. That could be a problem with the hub along with rack and pinyon. The toe going off tho I won't say anything about that as I am clueless

talonXracer
01-15-2011, 08:11 AM
The suspension geometry when lowered adds significant loads onto the front LCA bushings, tierod ends and ball joints, install a set of RCA's(exteded lower ball joints), add the extended steering rack center arm. If the car sits at a different attitude when the alignment is checked the specs will be far off.

There is zero adjustments for castor on a stock chassis. There are upper mounts that can be installed that will allow adjustment of either castor or camber depending on which way it is installed. Or install the typeR LCA's as they add some castor.

Andrew
01-15-2011, 09:59 AM
I've always measured how low by bottom fender to bottom tire for example from the bottom of my fender to bottom of my tire is 23inches. How low are you in those terms?

You should not be leaving the alignment shop with steering wheel not straight my local alignment shop does my friends VIP cars with mad camber with the steering wheel perfect. That could be a problem with the hub along with rack and pinyon. The toe going off tho I won't say anything about that as I am clueless

it really does annoy me, in general i think it's firestone in general just trying to get you out of there so I think i'm going to try a more tuner friendly shop


The suspension geometry when lowered adds significant loads onto the front LCA bushings, tierod ends and ball joints, install a set of RCA's(exteded lower ball joints), add the extended steering rack center arm. If the car sits at a different attitude when the alignment is checked the specs will be far off.

There is zero adjustments for castor on a stock chassis. There are upper mounts that can be installed that will allow adjustment of either castor or camber depending on which way it is installed. Or install the typeR LCA's as they add some castor.

okay gotcha on the caster or castor? and i already have a set of hard race roll center adjusters (uninstalled) but no steering rack bracket i don't have. could you possibly tell me why my toe always goes off?

talonXracer
01-15-2011, 10:20 AM
There is probably alot of play in the bushings. I had a similar issue until I corrected the abnormal suspension geometry. The shops could NOT center the steering wheel, I added the RCA's and reduced the camber and they could center the steering wheel.

alot of your issues are probably related to the quality of work done by the Firestone morons, find a shop that does performance work. MAKE sure the shop adds weights to the drivers seat that approximates your weight.

Tougeep3
01-15-2011, 09:01 PM
Nope no caster adjustments on 90% of cars around, it's an angle that's designed into the suspension. Sports cars and higher end stuff will have an adjustment, but not a civic. If it's that far off you need it aligned so often I'd wonder if something is loose.


alot of your issues are probably related to the quality of work done by the Firestone morons

Watch it. Just because some of us get stuck doesn't mean we're morons. I put out better quality work than anyone you've ever had work on your car..



MAKE sure the shop adds weights to the drivers seat that approximates your weight

Actually it's negligible in a street car. A breeze can shift the readings more than the 180lb difference. Crazy ones are BMW, they want a full tank, 150lbs in each F. seat, 75lbs in the back seat, and 150lbs. in the trunk. Do you know anyone that drives their BMW like that daily?? Now don't get me wrong, if someone comes in that knows enough to ask, I'll do it..

powdbyrice
01-15-2011, 09:40 PM
it really does annoy me, in general i think it's firestone in general just trying to get you out of there so I think i'm going to try a more tuner friendly shop

okay gotcha on the caster or castor? and i already have a set of hard race roll center adjusters (uninstalled) but no steering rack bracket i don't have. could you possibly tell me why my toe always goes off?

have you tried auto innovations in milpitas? they do good work and work primarily on imports.

AKEP
01-15-2011, 10:42 PM
my alignment is weird too, it sticks to a direction if i turn without moving, like at intersections or u-turns.

Zzyzx
01-17-2011, 09:13 AM
My $0.02 says your suspension bushings are shot. both AKEP & Andrews.

Wandering Toe typically means something is worn out, be it tie rod ends or suspension bushings. Most shops can spot a worn tie rod end, but overlook the bushings them selves.

Andrew
01-17-2011, 10:40 PM
There is probably alot of play in the bushings. I had a similar issue until I corrected the abnormal suspension geometry. The shops could NOT center the steering wheel, I added the RCA's and reduced the camber and they could center the steering wheel.

alot of your issues are probably related to the quality of work done by the Firestone morons, find a shop that does performance work. MAKE sure the shop adds weights to the drivers seat that approximates your weight.

ohhh okay i see where youre coming from. well i do have hard race RCAs sitting around the house, but i have not installed them yet. i should get on that, but i'm running a stock alignment lowered so no camber really maybe -.05 at most. and yes i feel as if the guys are firestone neglect my knowledge because i'm a younger person (20 years of age) and asian and driving a lowered civic, but still that's not the point haha. i still need to check out my bushings and tie rod ends if they are worn out


Nope no caster adjustments on 90% of cars around, it's an angle that's designed into the suspension. Sports cars and higher end stuff will have an adjustment, but not a civic. If it's that far off you need it aligned so often I'd wonder if something is loose.



Watch it. Just because some of us get stuck doesn't mean we're morons. I put out better quality work than anyone you've ever had work on your car..




Actually it's negligible in a street car. A breeze can shift the readings more than the 180lb difference. Crazy ones are BMW, they want a full tank, 150lbs in each F. seat, 75lbs in the back seat, and 150lbs. in the trunk. Do you know anyone that drives their BMW like that daily?? Now don't get me wrong, if someone comes in that knows enough to ask, I'll do it..

i'm glad some people out there output excellent work, but i'm really not feeling the workmanship at the firestones i have been to around my city. and that's been 2 different firestones and then another one across the way i've been to. all my alignments were still a bit off so i'm thinking it's a combo of workmanship/worn out parts


have you tried auto innovations in milpitas? they do good work and work primarily on imports.

i haven't yet i'll look them up. thanks man!


my alignment is weird too, it sticks to a direction if i turn without moving, like at intersections or u-turns.

i don't think i have noticed that, but i'll be sure to observe that for my next u-turn or turn


My $0.02 says your suspension bushings are shot. both AKEP & Andrews.

Wandering Toe typically means something is worn out, be it tie rod ends or suspension bushings. Most shops can spot a worn tie rod end, but overlook the bushings them selves.

thank you sir! i've been concluding something is worn out, but the shop has not mentioned anything about tie rod ends, so it might be my bushings

can anyone describe what worn out tie rod ends and bushings look like?

Tougeep3
01-17-2011, 11:34 PM
can anyone describe what worn out tie rod ends and bushings look like?

Bushings yes, they'll be torn. Tierods and others nope, you'll have to physically check those..

Lift the front end of the car off the ground. grab the wheel at 9 & 3 and shake, you're not trying to turn the wheel, do the same at 12 & 6. Now do the other side. You should have VERY slight to no movement. Side to side will show tierods (inner and outer), bushings, rack. Up and down will show ball joints. Hub bearings will have play in one or both directions..

Drew1d
01-18-2011, 08:39 AM
Cliffs:
1) nagging alignment problem
2) toe is always off
3) go back to re align every 2-3 months
4) car is lowered 2.5+ inches
5) shop cant adjust caster?
6) input please
Castor isn't adjustable. Is your camber off, and that throws off toe? If that's the case, perhaps the crash bolts are slipping. (that's why the lobed bolts suck) Is the Rear toe off also?

Andrew
01-18-2011, 01:07 PM
Castor isn't adjustable. Is your camber off, and that throws off toe? If that's the case, perhaps the crash bolts are slipping. (that's why the lobed bolts suck) Is the Rear toe off also?

i don't run crash bolts anymore (yes i agree those suck) and no my rear toe isn't off it's just the front