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View Full Version : Can you use a front BBK on the rear?



whatsvtec
02-01-2011, 04:31 PM
Question is stated in the title. I was wondering if it was possible, and if anyone has successfully modified a front specific BBK to run on the rear axles? What type of work would have to be done?


I think a wilwood 6pot in front and wilwood 4pot in the rear might be the overkill I'm looking for :mangel:


Any thoughts and comments are appreciated.

RedSiBaron
02-01-2011, 04:46 PM
uhh well, there are no axles in the rear, there are rear hubs though...it would work if you were able to make a mounting bracket since the mount spacing for the caliper are closer together in the rear...plus youd then have to figure out what you are going to do for a handbrake...other than that i dont see why it wouldnt work...

OH and brake bias would be fucked so youd need to deal with the prop valve somehow, possibly goto an aftermarket adjustable one...if the proportion of size front to rear is very different from the current ratio it will change bias

codyep3
02-01-2011, 04:58 PM
OH and brake bias would be fucked so youd need to deal with the prop valve somehow, possibly goto an aftermarket adjustable one...if the proportion of size front to rear is very different from the current ratio it will change bias

this lol

whatsvtec
02-01-2011, 05:02 PM
:mcool:
uhh well, there are no axles in the rear, there are rear hubs though...it would work if you were able to make a mounting bracket since the mount spacing for the caliper are closer together in the rear...plus youd then have to figure out what you are going to do for a handbrake...other than that i dont see why it wouldnt work...

OH and brake bias would be fucked so youd need to deal with the prop valve somehow, possibly goto an aftermarket adjustable one...if the proportion of size front to rear is very different from the current ratio it will change bias

Hubs, axles, you know.....the things the wheels are attatched to! hahaha

I wasn't sure exactly how hard it would be to get the caliper mounted, so thanks for the reassurance. The rest can be worked out like you said with aftermarket parts and some innovation. I think a ksport hydraulic handle should solve the parking brake issue. Thanks for the answer, I can keep dreaming safely. :mbiggrin:
The idea is kind of farfetched right now, but I don't believe it's impossible.

Zzyzx
02-01-2011, 05:08 PM
In automotive terms Axels connect an engine to a wheel. Hubs attach a wheel to a Knuckle & suspension..

its not impossible, its just not usefull either. It would just end up being a bunch of mony spet for zero improvement in stopping capability.

RedSiBaron
02-01-2011, 05:12 PM
:mcool:

Hubs, axles, you know.....the things the wheels are attatched to! hahaha

I wasn't sure exactly how hard it would be to get the caliper mounted, so thanks for the reassurance. The rest can be worked out like you said with aftermarket parts and some innovation. I think a ksport hydraulic handle should solve the parking brake issue. Thanks for the answer, I can keep dreaming safely. :mbiggrin:
The idea is kind of farfetched right now, but I don't believe it's impossible.

its far from impossible, fuck, with the right measurements and mock ups infront of me i could design you a CNC-able bracket CAD drawing in probably an hour or two...from there you can go pay a machine shop with a cnc to make the brackets...

whatsvtec
02-01-2011, 05:13 PM
Axels connect an engine to a wheel. Hubs attach a wheel to a Knuckle & suspension..


Thanks for the clarification. I understand that, just wasn't using all the correct terms in reference.


its not impossible, its just not usefull either. It would just end up being a bunch of mony spet for zero improvement in stopping capability. I'm interested in the reasoning behind this... Would you want to elaborate on your thoughts? I don't want to upgrade the fronts if I'm not upgrading the rears.

RedSiBaron
02-01-2011, 05:13 PM
In automotive terms Axels connect an engine to a wheel. Hubs attach a wheel to a Knuckle & suspension..

its not impossible, its just not usefull either. It would just end up being a bunch of mony spet for zero improvement in stopping capability.

yes, and that, the type s brakes are actually more than enough brake with good pads...

its nice to see you around by the way zzyzx

whatsvtec
02-01-2011, 05:15 PM
its far from impossible, fuck, with the right measurements and mock ups infront of me i could design you a CNC-able bracket CAD drawing in probably an hour or two...from there you can go pay a machine shop with a cnc to make the brackets...

My thoughts exactly! :thumbu: I'm young and stupid right now. But I'd like to expand my knowledge into fabrication and engineering as I get older. I think this would be a perfect excuse to practice what I learn.

whatsvtec
02-01-2011, 05:16 PM
yes, and that, the type s brakes are actually more than enough brake with good pads...

its nice to see you around by the way zzyzx

This is gonna sound REALLY stupid, but I don't want to change my bolt pattern.

RedSiBaron
02-01-2011, 05:32 PM
This is gonna sound REALLY stupid, but I don't want to change my bolt pattern.

i understand...its going to come down to an either or situation, the bbks will probably end up costing you more at the end of the day

lbk02si
02-01-2011, 05:32 PM
The real question is why on earth would you need such an overblown braking setup????

Zzyzx
02-01-2011, 05:34 PM
its nice to see you around by the way zzyzx I pop in now and then, usually when someone is asking an honest question rather then just looking for whats going to lower their car the most or make it look better.


I'm interested in the reasoning behind this... Would you want to elaborate on your thoughts? I don't want to upgrade the fronts if I'm not upgrading the rears.

1st thing to do is to clarify what exactly you are expecting to improve by going with a larger rotor & caliper.

As in you are trying to correct a heat issue, larger rotors may be the right choice. If you are trying to stop the car faster... well then you are barking up the wrong tree.

In its most simplistic your brakes (calipers, rotors, pads, brake lines, master cylinder ect) dont actually stop the car. They really only give you a system that allows you to utilize what does actually allow you to stop the car.... Your tires. Your tires, after all, are the only thing actually touching the ground. And as such are the only thing that can apply force between the car and ground. So the question is, are your current brakes capable in utilizing 100% of your tires traction budget? Well, in a properly funcioning car like your EP, they are. If you can lock the tires up under braking (or get the ABS to engage) you've reached ~100% of your current tires traction budget. So we can surmise that messing with the system behind that tire isn't really going to do much for stopping distances.

As someone else once stated (either here or on club RSX I forget which) There are two friction systems within the brake system of your car. The 1st one is the interaction of the caliper, rotor and brake pad, the 2nd is the interaction between the tire and the road surface. Altering the maximum torque output of one does not change the maximum torque output of the other.

Also, read this: The author is a brake engineer & amateur race car driver
http://www.teamscr.com/motorsports/tech-articles/34-braking-systemsin-plain-english.html

RedSiBaron
02-01-2011, 05:41 PM
and this is why i love it when you poke your head in now and then :mbiggrin:

whatsvtec
02-01-2011, 05:49 PM
Gotcha, that makes perfect sense now.

The only time a crazy brake setup like that would make a difference in stopping distance is if you had really wide/sticky tires that you couldn't lock up with the current brakes

Thanks very much for the information. I'm thinking twice about this, but I might have to do it anyways to eliminate fear of brake fade. Time will tell.

88crx
02-01-2011, 05:51 PM
Wilwood makes a mini BBK for the rears for RSX.

whatsvtec
02-01-2011, 05:57 PM
They make a mini bbk for 4x100 ep3's as well, you can only order it by phone. I just can't justify spending $800 on a single piston rear kit.
If I could fabricate mounts and get a prop valve setup, the 4 piston kit might be still be cheaper. Also, adjustment is a great thing to have.