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View Full Version : What type oil should I use???????????????



CivicSier
03-15-2011, 10:34 PM
I currently have 1 day on honda oem filter with castrol GTX regular oil.
I think the previous owner had synthetic, because after changing the oil it sounded a bit louder.
Could this be all in my head? Would it be alright to switch dino to synthetic and vise versa?
What type(syn or dino) and weight would you recommend, also what brand?
What happens when synthetic mixes with regular oil if this occurred in my engine?

And what should i use valvoline, castrol, or pennzoil

tatsu666
03-16-2011, 01:30 AM
plz check oil section

04EP3Hatch
03-16-2011, 04:08 AM
change out to a synthetic 5w30 like royal purple or amsoil

bizzle
03-16-2011, 04:31 AM
Synthetic 5w30 or 10w30 in a stock k20a3. Just stay away from 5w20 to be on the safe side.

ImportCustomx
03-16-2011, 06:17 AM
Take a peek in the oil section. ill moved the thread over there for you.

CivicSier
03-16-2011, 08:29 AM
Synthetic 5w30 or 10w30 in a stock k20a3. Just stay away from 5w20 to be on the safe side.

Shit I used 5w-20 would that cause engine noise?

bizzle
03-16-2011, 09:15 AM
Shit I used 5w-20 would that cause engine noise?

I don't know for sure but I just know most people on this forum recommend against using it because of potential issues with the cam lobes galling. Apparently the oil wasn't the whole cause but issues with the actual metal itself. Either way, most people here advise against it. I'd just drain it and put in 5w30 or 10w30, the filter itself is fine, just take it off and drain it, just let as much drain out as possible from the pan.

Is this for the smashed up ep you're fixing?

CivicSier
03-16-2011, 09:58 AM
Valvoline, Castrol or pennzoil ?

bizzle
03-16-2011, 10:03 AM
I've been using Mobil1 but there doesn't seem to be much love for that around these parts. I've only done two changes since I got the car and I'll be switching to something else. Lots of love for Amsoil, Royal Purple, Castrol Syntec from what I've read.

Jukka
03-16-2011, 11:30 AM
I used to run Royal Purple, but I hated it...now I'm on Motul and thats it. Haven't used anything else for the past year and a half.

talonXracer
03-16-2011, 11:35 AM
The Pennzoil Platinum would be my selection of your 3 choices

TheKone
03-16-2011, 02:10 PM
Amsoil 0w-30 here. Absolutely love it. Motul is good too. I've heard some sketchy things about royal purple like that it is thinner than advertised which helps there horsepower claims but sacrifices engine protection. Just word of mouth though.

fobman
03-16-2011, 02:36 PM
i guess ill be using motul for my next oil change lol

CivicSier
03-16-2011, 05:50 PM
The Pennzoil Platinum would be my selection of your 3 choices
I talked to a machanic and he said that is was good stuf. Would you recommend the ultra or platinum?
Would I have to change the filter to? Or would a dain of the filter be ok? If I have to change it is there a non honda filter that meets or exceeds? The dealership is kind of far from me.

CivicSier
03-16-2011, 05:54 PM
I don't know for sure but I just know most people on this forum recommend against using it because of potential issues with the cam lobes galling. Apparently the oil wasn't the whole cause but issues with the actual metal itself. Either way, most people here advise against it. I'd just drain it and put in 5w30 or 10w30, the filter itself is fine, just take it off and drain it, just let as much drain out as possible from the pan.

Is this for the smashed up ep you're fixing?
Yes it's the same car, what about pennzoil platinum 5W-20?

RedSiBaron
03-16-2011, 05:56 PM
Redline 5w30 is what I use and is one of the most tried and proven oils in the racing world...might be outside most price ranges, it will run you $10 or $11 per qt, but when you're like me who only needs to do 1 oil change every season (every 3 months) its no biggie...


As for your choices, I've only used valvoline out of those, but not in synthetic, though I will say valvoline high mileage is absolutely fantastic for old cars

bizzle
03-16-2011, 06:14 PM
I talked to a machanic and he said that is was good stuf. Would you recommend the ultra or platinum?
Would I have to change the filter to? Or would a dain of the filter be ok? If I have to change it is there a non honda filter that meets or exceeds? The dealership is kind of far from me.
If this is to replace the oil you put in a few days ago I'd say it's fine to use the same filter, just pull it off and drain it. Though they are so cheap it wouldn't hurt to replace it.

CivicSier
03-16-2011, 06:29 PM
If this is to replace the oil you put in a few days ago I'd say it's fine to use the same filter, just pull it off and drain it. Though they are so cheap it wouldn't hurt to replace it.

I will probably just replace it since I don't want that Type/weight oil in the system.

CivicSier
03-16-2011, 06:31 PM
What about Valvoline SynPower synthetic, Any good?

RedSiBaron
03-16-2011, 06:38 PM
Honestly its a strong name brand, it'll all work...until you get into the expensive high performance oils there wont be much of a difference

If you go with say royal purple you'll notice hp and mpg increase, but you'll prolly need to add a qt per 3k miles or less...

Amsoil, redline, motul will do the same thing but they can handle heat a lot better and you wont burn nearly as much...

udontknowjack
03-16-2011, 08:42 PM
amsoil 5w-30

udontknowjack
03-16-2011, 08:44 PM
man you start 2 threads asking about the same question?

CivicSier
03-16-2011, 08:52 PM
man you start 2 threads asking about the same question?

Kind of the same, but I see what you are saying.
Sorry about that.
I just need all the help I can get when it comes to this stuff.
I used regular oil in every care that I owned, so I am testing and trying to gain as much knowledge and different opinions from people that currently use synthetic oils.

Slip_Angle
03-16-2011, 09:06 PM
Pennzoil Platinum has great oil analysis reviews on BITOG. Also, these claims of 5w-20 not providing sufficient lubrication or protection are bunk. Go over to Bob's the oil guy and read the FAQ. Very informative and dispels many myths.

RedSiBaron
03-16-2011, 09:30 PM
man you start 2 threads asking about the same question?


..

ya, seriously, i didnt catch this before, but we dont need two threads from you on oil in the same day, im going to merge the two threads...

superchargedk20
03-16-2011, 09:37 PM
I think ur looking to much into this. Most people use synthetic but any of ur choice arent gona make ur engine blow. Heck my boy has a 400whp LSvtec turbo and he runs regular castrol GTX in it lol

Honestly dude if u want good oil Try Joe Gibbs Racing synthetic Hot Rod oil. Ive used it for over a year and its great oil. It doesnt burn and its high in zinc for extra protection for cam where. One of the reasons my mechanic wanted me to switch over to this oil because I had the cam issue with my a3. Its also good if ur car sits in the garage for long periods of time. Ive had my car in the garage for the winter. Just insured it a few days ago. Ive taken it out the last couple of days and she runs beautifully. Im gettin fresh oil put in tomorrow and still going with the joe gibbs hot rod oil.

SkareKrow
03-16-2011, 09:58 PM
I am running 10w30 Mobil 1 Fully synthetic.

Honestly its a strong name brand, it'll all work...until you get into the expensive high performance oils there wont be much of a difference

If you go with say royal purple you'll notice hp and mpg increase, but you'll prolly need to add a qt per 3k miles or less...

Amsoil, redline, motul will do the same thing but they can handle heat a lot better and you wont burn nearly as much...

Thanks for the great advice! Good to know time to change my oil type now!

udontknowjack
03-16-2011, 10:35 PM
if this is your dd nothing crazy like more than 2-3 track day a year 10 or more autox a year....reg castro GTX 5w 30 is more than good enough..... is like putting 91 oct gas into a car than require only 87 oct....

CivicSier
03-16-2011, 11:03 PM
if this is your dd nothing crazy like more than 2-3 track day a year 10 or more autox a year....reg castro GTX 5w 30 is more than good enough..... is like putting 91 oct gas into a car than require only 87 oct....

But don't use 5w-20.. Use the 5w-30?..
Summer is comming up so I think that the 5w-30 would be fine right?

RedSiBaron
03-16-2011, 11:23 PM
But don't use 5w-20.. Use the 5w-30?..
Summer is comming up so I think that the 5w-30 would be fine right?

no, you WANT to use 5w30 because there are problems with the 5w20 contributing to cam gauling issues...

Mechanic
03-20-2011, 03:12 AM
Pennzoil Platinum has great oil analysis reviews on BITOG. Also, these claims of 5w-20 not providing sufficient lubrication or protection are bunk. Go over to Bob's the oil guy and read the FAQ. Very informative and dispels many myths.


Slip_Angle, I agree w/u WRT PP; excellent product. But we part ways WRT your comment about "claims of 5W-20 not providing sufficient lubrication or protection are bunk." 5W-20 may provide adequate lubrication in 99.9% of HMC's engines these days, but the vast majority of those engines seldom, if ever, experience high rpm use, and for those that do HMC still recommends 5W-30 (or 5W-40) weight oil. Why do you think that is?

Can you get away with 5W-20 in an EP3 engine? Obviously. You apparently run the stuff, so that's one example. But those of us who opt for 5W-30 weight oil know the additional HT/HS film strength (cSt @ 100c) will never harm a K20A3 engine and it just might be a crucial factor in preventing camshaft galling.

Slip_Angle
03-25-2011, 09:25 PM
Slip_Angle, I agree w/u WRT PP; excellent product. But we part ways WRT your comment about "claims of 5W-20 not providing sufficient lubrication or protection are bunk." 5W-20 may provide adequate lubrication in 99.9% of HMC's engines these days, but the vast majority of those engines seldom, if ever, experience high rpm use, and for those that do HMC still recommends 5W-30 (or 5W-40) weight oil. Why do you think that is?

Can you get away with 5W-20 in an EP3 engine? Obviously. You apparently run the stuff, so that's one example. But those of us who opt for 5W-30 weight oil know the additional HT/HS film strength (cSt @ 100c) will never harm a K20A3 engine and it just might be a crucial factor in preventing camshaft galling.

Ok, my use of the word bunk may have been a bit strong but once I read through the BITOG FAQ it opened my eyes to some mis-conceptions I had. A few key pieces of information I read. I don't consider a 5W30 that much thicker than a 5W20. I'm talking about the 15W40-20W50 range as thicker.

1. 90% of engine wear is at startup.
2. Most of todays engine blocks run at 212F (ideally) and require a viscosity of 10cS. Thicker oils are at ~20cS at 212F.
3. The thicker the oil, the more wear at startup - Thicker oils are above 250cS at startup vs ~100cS for a thinner oil. Synthetics are ~40 (5W30)
4. At very high engine temperatures (302F), thinner oils drop from ~ 10cS to ~3cS. Thicker oils go from ~20cS to ~4cS - they provide no better protection.
5. Thinner grade oils have better flow and thus better cooling. Cooler engines wear less (212F vs 302F)

The cam galling was most likely due to manufacturing inconsistencies or possibly LTO. I have read this concept of Low Traction Oil that may cause accelerated galling but it is not related to thinner oils and is dependent on engine design.

I have a K24a2 and use 5W30 PP Full Synthetic.

Mechanic
03-27-2011, 04:50 AM
What?! "Low Traction Oil"?

Slip_Angle, your response doesn't even rise to the level of junk science.

CivicSier
03-27-2011, 07:34 AM
I went with Pennzoil platinum 5w-20, So far so good I definitely felt a difference between Reg and syn. It's still cold here in Philadelphia so when summer rolls around I may go up to 30.
Thanks every one for your input.

POOPTOOTH
03-27-2011, 07:45 AM
:doh:

talonXracer
03-27-2011, 07:46 AM
There is so much misinformation, conjecture and pure BS on BITOG that it isnt even laughable, LOL

I could care less about all these hypothetical wear #'s and armchair theatrics. 30+ years of wrenching and machine shop experience is what I go by, ie that is reality to all you youngins and your tech. When you see trends develop due to the type and weights of oil used and their corresponding damage, that is what I go by, not some individual posting theories and conjecture based upon a bong induced fuge over on BITOG.

5w20/0w20 = disaster

RedSiBaron
03-27-2011, 08:43 AM
There is so much misinformation, conjecture and pure BS on BITOG that it isnt even laughable, LOL

I could care less about all these hypothetical wear #'s and armchair theatrics. 30+ years of wrenching and machine shop experience is what I go by, ie that is reality to all you youngins and your tech. When you see trends develop due to the type and weights of oil used and their corresponding damage, that is what I go by, not some individual posting theories and conjecture based upon a bong induced fuge over on BITOG.

5w20/0w20 = disaster

this is why i keep my old man around, he has experience back to the 50s, if it can happen hes seen it in context...

like the quote in my sig says, which is my fathers quote by the way, you talk shop all you want and give me numbers and theories, but where the rubber meets the road is where we'll get our actual numbers...

when i bought my ep, i pulled the VC at my first oil change after finding out about the gauling issue...i found that i had indication of abnormal wear starting on the lobes...i switched to 5w30 RP, and later redline and since then the wear issue has stopped and the wear is even and shiny, not gauled, pitted, or grooved...

Slip_Angle
03-27-2011, 10:08 AM
What?! "Low Traction Oil"?

Slip_Angle, your response doesn't even rise to the level of junk science.

Really? Valvoline and you disagree then. Here is my source -- a company that makes oil. Go ahead, educate yourself then we can discuss like adults.

http://www.valvoline-technology.com/upload/dynamic/Diesel%20Engine%20Cam%20Galling.pdf


There is so much misinformation, conjecture and pure BS on BITOG that it isnt even laughable, LOL

I could care less about all these hypothetical wear #'s and armchair theatrics. 30+ years of wrenching and machine shop experience is what I go by, ie that is reality to all you youngins and your tech. When you see trends develop due to the type and weights of oil used and their corresponding damage, that is what I go by, not some individual posting theories and conjecture based upon a bong induced fuge over on BITOG.

5w20/0w20 = disaster

Talon... come on. I don't disagree experience is important but disputing the FAQ on BITOG that is made up from years of experience and research? Tell me your not stuck in your ways and can't learn more??

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/

talonXracer
03-27-2011, 11:53 AM
There are far TOO MANY industry pundits on that site to wade thru all their BS. When real world machinists and mechanics come to different conclusions than what the BITOG's finest oil industry experts do, I will go with the guys in the trenchs rather than the lab coat guys everytime....... some of the info is good, but far too much plagerisim of corporate talking points to be taken serious, take for instance, "low traction oil", a corporate derived term to push their oil.

Mechanic
03-27-2011, 12:30 PM
Slip_Angle, I can't believe I'm going to waste time responding to your post.

First, focus! This thread began with a comparison of 5W-20 weight motor oil with 5W-30 weight motor oil. Why you decided that 15W-40 or 20W-50 weight oils were somehow relevant here, I have no idea. Do you?

WRT to your "low traction oil" argument, I take it you believe that a 2001 SAE paper regarding cam galling in heavy duty diesel engines supports your original comment that "[t]hese claims of 5W-20 not providing sufficient lubrication or protection are bunk"? You see a relationship here, do you? You really believe that SAE paper somehow relates to the camshaft design in HMC's K-series gasoline engines? Does the term "non sequitur" mean anything to you? More to the point, sir, can you cite any authority for your argument (other than a vague link to bobistheoilguy.com.)? I know Bob's site well. I'd like to read the link on Bob's that you believe is on point to this discussion.

And while you are at it, please provide a citation of authority for your statement that "[m]ost of today's engine blocks run at 212F (ideally) and require a viscosity of 10cS." (Emphasis added.) That certainly will come as news to the Honda Motor Company, XOM, BP, RDS, COP, etc. (And I realize it's petty to point this out, sir, but the correct abbreviation for centiStokes -- you did know it's centistokes, right? -- is cSt, not cS.) The weight oil I recommended, 5W-30, has a cSt range of 10.7-11.3 at 100c. The 5W-20 you originally held out as "sufficient" typically has a cSt of 8.4 at the same temperature. Want to re-think your gibberish about engine blocks requiring a viscosity of "10cS" (sic)?

And while we are on the subject of oil temperature, the number I cited, 100 degrees Celcius, is the industry standard for oil viscosity product data sheets (PDSs). (Doubt that? You can go to XOM's webpage and check it out.) I have no idea what point you were attempting to make WRT your comments about oil temperatures in excess of 300 degrees Fahrenheit -- which you threw in out of the blue -- but I'm guessing you thought that non sequitur was somehow relevent to the discussion of 5W-30? (If your point was that you can fry conventional motor oil at 300F, you won't get an argument from me.)

WRT your comment that "[you] don't consider 5W30 that much thicker than a 5W20," for your edification Mobil Super 5000 5W-20 (a conventional oil I picked at random) has a cSt of 8.4 at 100c. MS5k 5W-30 has a cSt of 10.7 at 100c. That's about a 13% difference. Mobil 1 5W-30 has an even greater difference: cSt of 11.3 at the same temperature. These percentage differences are hardly insignificant. They are precisely the differences that HMC is trying to eliminate in its quest for ultra high fuel mileage.

Finally, just for the hell of it, I'd like to read your citation of authority for your insightful comment that "[t]he cam galling was most likely due to manufacturing inconsistencies." That sounds like a guess to me -- like damn near everything else you wrote. Your self-study has failed you.

Slip_Angle
03-27-2011, 06:18 PM
Congratulations, you now have some skin in the game. I guess you decided you must respond now since you're looking a bit silly calling me out on the LTO stuff that you never heard of... ;)

A couple of things.

#1 -- I make NO claims to be an oil expert and only write based on what I read on reputable sites.

#2 -- I have no issue with being wrong but you need to provide reasonable arguments.

Now, to your points.

My comparison with thicker oils was simply an illustration to show thicker is not better, in fact it's worse. Not comparing 5w20 to 5w30 - they are too close.

My point regarding the cam galling is that it is more likely there was material issues with manufacturing or possibly something else related to oil but NOT that a thinner oil was the cause.. I read a fairly well written article to support my theories -- more than anyone else provided! Thought that was clear but I guess not - no harm, no foul.

212f vs 100c -- OK, this made me laugh a bit. I have no argument with you since they are the same temperature. 100 Celsius = 212 Fahrenheit.

10cS. If you take time to read the BITOG FAQ, it makes multiple references to oils optimum temperature and viscosity being 10cS at 212F/100C.

The info about 302F is a reference to heat and it causing oil to lose it's viscosity. If the oil protects best at a viscosity of 10cS but excessive heat causes the oil to lose it's viscosity, then the oil is not doing it's job. The BITOG FAQ says that thinner oils protect just as well at higher temperatures as thicker oils.

Viscosity or Centistokes can be referenced as cS or cSt. BITOG uses cS. Is this really a big deal?

My references..

http://www.convertworld.com/en/kinematic-viscosity/Centistokes.html

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/english/construction_civil_engineering/1442350-cst.html

So ultimately, your post seems like an attempt to discredit the information I've provided and make it look like I have no idea what I'm talking about...but in fact none of this information is mine - It's all from reputable sites. You ask for all of my references, which I provide but you provide none of your own.

I have no proof at all that the cam galling was caused by bad manufacturing but it certainly is plausible no? I would think that if 5w20 motor oil caused problems with Honda motors, they would have stopped using it -- but the opposite is true -- they use it more than ever.

Honda recommends 5W20 oil for their vehicles -- don't you think they know what they're talking about?

...and what's up with the Latin?

Mechanic
03-28-2011, 01:32 AM
#1 -- I make NO claims to be an oil expert and only write based on what I read on reputable sites.

So ultimately, your post seems like an attempt to discredit the information I've provided and make it look like I have no idea what I'm talking about...



Work on that reading comprehension.

And, my post wasn't an attempt to discredit what you wrote. We're long past that, Sunshine.

talonXracer
03-28-2011, 06:33 AM
LOL, seldom does lab results mimic real life results. The figures and numbers provided by the industry are VERY suspect to begin with, That is like taking a drug companies word their poison is safe to take without any research on your part!!! LOL


Honda's very own publications reveal the whys and how of the 5w20 oil recommendation on the EP3's A3. You need to wrap your braincells around the fact that Honda only lowered the oil specs on the a3 to raise the MPG and lower emissions to help theri ENTIRE fleet MPG and emissions ratings to lower tarrifs and fines. The tariff/fine cost vrs warranty repairs for oil related issues are the core issues, it costs less to replace a few engines than pay millions in fines and tariffs.

Every Stealership within 200 miles of me stopped recommending the 5w20 swill due to the excessively high oil related warranty claims, when they stopped pushing the 5w20 swill, their claims dropped down to almost ZERO. !!!!


xw20 and 0w oils are the new Koolaid drinks for the "E" generation !!!

Slip_Angle
03-29-2011, 09:53 PM
Work on that reading comprehension.

And, my post wasn't an attempt to discredit what you wrote. We're long past that, Sunshine.

Is that it? That's all you got? You jumped on each of my posts, pointing out items you felt were either completely mis-informed or beneath your level of God like brilliance... Only to be proven wrong and that was your response?

Well done.



Honda's very own publications reveal the whys and how of the 5w20 oil recommendation on the EP3's A3. You need to wrap your braincells around the fact that Honda only lowered the oil specs on the a3 to raise the MPG and lower emissions to help theri ENTIRE fleet MPG and emissions ratings to lower tarrifs and fines. The tariff/fine cost vrs warranty repairs for oil related issues are the core issues, it costs less to replace a few engines than pay millions in fines and tariffs.

Every Stealership within 200 miles of me stopped recommending the 5w20 swill due to the excessively high oil related warranty claims, when they stopped pushing the 5w20 swill, their claims dropped down to almost ZERO. !!!!


xw20 and 0w oils are the new Koolaid drinks for the "E" generation !!!

Why Honda did it is irrelevant. The company that makes the most and arguably best engines in the world is not going to sacrifice their reputation to reach emissions standards they already meet. Fact is, Honda still recommends 0w20 and 5w20 for their cars....which means dealers are using it.

You got a source for this 0 claim, no 5w20 recommendation? I bet if I call any of these dealerships in your area, they'll recommend exactly what Honda says should be put in their motors -- 5w20.

Source...

http://www.honda.ca/parts-accessories/parts/oil-and-fluids