Si vs Type R

[MYFA5]

Hey guys I'm new to the site and short on time at that. A friend of mine just purchased an Ep3. I own a FA5 but a huge civic si fan no matter the generation. Anyways long story short I was curious on the difference in the engine setup vs a Type R Ep3. I was recently watching Top Gear Season 10 episode 6 and it has an Ep3 Type R vs a new Type R and noticed that the Ep3 blew its doors off. What needs to be done to the Ep3 Si performance wise to get it up to Type R numbers.

I don't know much about the Ep3's but im trying to learn quickly to help him out, any help you guys give would be greatly appretiated.

I tried searching but too much came up. I found a couple things but not a good layout of all the differences in one nice list. It would be nice if someone had a comparison break down list of the Ep3 Si vs Type R. From hp to compression ratios to any numbers you can come up with. Also can this motor be built with factory honda performance parts to basicaly build a type r motor..

wow that was a lunch hour killer lol. Thanks in advance for any response!!:mtongue:

[j0000stin]

the si has a k20a3 which is weak as hell. the type r either came with a k20a2(like the type s) or a k20a1.
the type r has stiffer suspension set up i believe. i used to have an fa5 and if you plan on racing your friend with an ep you will win.

there is no comparison between the si and the type r. your talking about 160hp vs. 200hp

[T_Virus]

the si has a k20a3 which is weak as hell. the type r either came with a k20a2(like the type s) or a k20a.
the type r has stiffer suspension set up i believe. i used to have an fa5 and if you plan on racing your friend with an ep you will win.

there is no comparison between the si and the type r. your talking about 160hp vs. 200hp

See correction above...lol...

[SamuraiSi]

i thought the k20a = k20a1

[vicx52o]

You forgot to add that the CTR has a 6 speed tranny... JDM EP3-R's had LSD too.

[vicx52o]

i thought the k20a = k20a1

No there is no such thing as a K20A1... The JDM type-r's all had K20A's. (ITR DC5, CTR EP3, Euro-R CL7/9, CTR FD2)

[vicx52o]

Hey guys I'm new to the site and short on time at that. A friend of mine just purchased an Ep3. I own a FA5 but a huge civic si fan no matter the generation. Anyways long story short I was curious on the difference in the engine setup vs a Type R Ep3. I was recently watching Top Gear Season 10 episode 6 and it has an Ep3 Type R vs a new Type R and noticed that the Ep3 blew its doors off. What needs to be done to the Ep3 Si performance wise to get it up to Type R numbers.

I don't know much about the Ep3's but im trying to learn quickly to help him out, any help you guys give would be greatly appretiated.

I tried searching but too much came up. I found a couple things but not a good layout of all the differences in one nice list. It would be nice if someone had a comparison break down list of the Ep3 Si vs Type R. From hp to compression ratios to any numbers you can come up with. Also can this motor be built with factory honda performance parts to basicaly build a type r motor..

wow that was a lunch hour killer lol. Thanks in advance for any response!!:mtongue:

Here's a link to wikipedia's info on the K-series engine.. this should give you general info/differences on each K-series engine:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_K_engine

and also there's really no point in building the stock k20a3 unless you decide to go with forced induction. If your friend is wanting a 'CTR spec' EP3, you might want to steer him in the direction of swapping in a different engine/tranny.

[talonXracer]

There are some irregularities with that wiki page, The EDM euro R did not come with a typeR engine, but basically the Z3 engine, it came with a RBC mani vrs the JDM euroR which had a K20A having the PRC mani.

[MugenReplica]

No there is no such thing as a K20A1... The JDM type-r's all had K20A's. (ITR DC5, CTR EP3, Euro-R CL7/9, CTR FD2)

That ^....all JDM (not EDM) came with K20A's. EDM Ep3 Civic Type R only came with K20a2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_K_engine#K20A2

[MYFA5]

Okay so how about this.. What would be the best swap then if a swap is the best plan of action? We both really like the performance that my K20z3 puts out in my fa5 or are they too expensive to get a hold of considering they are pretty new yet. I keep hearing K24's on this site so I'm guessing its a better choice? I will be doing a lot of the work on the swap so whatever is the easiest route to take along with being the most inexpensive too. I'm sure there is a thread for this and if so please point me in the right direction :).
You guys are being very helpful thank you for all the comments!

[mitchell_ep3]

z3 wont work, i beileve becasue you'd have to convert the ep3 to drive by wire, which you have in your fa... personally i'd go with the k24a2 :)

[MBaG]

Don't forget about all the type R exterior goodies as well.

[MYFA5]

z3 wont work, i beileve becasue you'd have to convert the ep3 to drive by wire, which you have in your fa... personally i'd go with the k24a2 :)

K24a2 it is then. I will start trying to find one somewhere.

[RedSiBaron]

If you are talking straight swap, no further modifications, a k20a swap and transmission would be the best and most expensive swap...

[vicx52o]

The Z3 will work with a couple modificatons.. here's a thread that about it: link (http://www.ephatch.com/forum/showthread.php?61697-K20z3-Go-right-in&highlight=k20z3)

OP you kinda hit it on the dot... most of us will tell you to swap in a K24A2.. You can source one used for a lot cheaper than a K20A2. If you're on a budget I would recommend a K24A1.

[talonXracer]

There are several options but which would be better depends on your intended use. But the K24A2 with simple bolt-on's will out pull a similarly equipped K20A/A2/Z1/Z3. the arguement is the same as what has fueled many a domestic gearheads tiffs, RPM's vrs torque. What I like about the K24A2 is the pulling power at highway speeds without downshifting.

[Jukka]

I thought that Civic Type-S/Sports came with K20A3, not K20A2

[Draw7Seven]

I thought that Civic Type-S/Sports came with K20A3, not K20A2

I think any previous allusion to the term "Type-S" in this thread was towards the USDM RSX-S rather than a Civic. Anybody talking about a Civic Type-S in North America or even a CL or TL Type-S would pretty much have to specify, since among the tuner crowd a Type-S infers a DC5.

On another semantics note, I'm not sure that the K20A1 doesn't exist, but the JDM got the first iteration of the K20 engine and therefore got called the K20A. When they came up with multiple engines within the K20A category, they had to start tagging numbers on the end to add clarity. One could argue that the JDM engine is technically the A1, since when somebody asks me if my stock EP3 has a K20A in it I could tell them "yes, the K20A3 to be specific." But of course if you checked the engine tag you wouldn't see a 1 on the end of the JDM engine, because it was the original.

I felt like being longwinded.

[talonXracer]

There is NO ENGINE produced or even designed with the K20A1 designation, it doesnt exist and NEVER DID ! ! !

Honda DID design a typeR Kseries engine model that was hand massaged and assembled like all earlier typeR engines and it was found to produce no more whp than the ORIGINAL typeS(K20A2) engine which was subsequently detuned to preserve the typeR's crown!

You see people doing all sorts of crazy versions of the Official honda designation for the typeR engine simply because they they know no better.

[rjmq06]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB5AqAY5EpU

LOL as stated on this official video all type-r is installed with "K20A"
engine NOT k20a1 engine and it appears that the dc5 has a lil bit higher HP than the ep3
and the dc5 was driven by the real drift king

[27rocks]

I think any previous allusion to the term "Type-S" in this thread was towards the USDM RSX-S rather than a Civic. Anybody talking about a Civic Type-S in North America or even a CL or TL Type-S would pretty much have to specify, since among the tuner crowd a Type-S infers a DC5.

On another semantics note, I'm not sure that the K20A1 doesn't exist, but the JDM got the first iteration of the K20 engine and therefore got called the K20A. When they came up with multiple engines within the K20A category, they had to start tagging numbers on the end to add clarity. One could argue that the JDM engine is technically the A1, since when somebody asks me if my stock EP3 has a K20A in it I could tell them "yes, the K20A3 to be specific." But of course if you checked the engine tag you wouldn't see a 1 on the end of the JDM engine, because it was the original.

I felt like being longwinded.

It's ok Matt i understand what you are trying to say and i would have to agree with you.

[Draw7Seven]

It's ok Matt i understand what you are trying to say and i would have to agree with you.

Jesus thank you for showing up I was honestly about to try to find an "ignore" function for this thread. You try to talk about semantics and what a term might mean around here and everything goes to shit.

[boricua4life]

yea i would have to agree also. i mean i know there is no k20a1 but you have to assume that the k20a is... technically cause they kept going to a2 and a3....