Who Likes Oil Analysis Data on Our Engines - Read Below....

[JSIR]

For anyone that follows oil analysis data for oil testing on autos, I just got my test results back on two different oils I have been using. The forum where I posted is at (my screen name is Idrinkmotoroil) , you will find lots of other oil testing results :

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=forum;f=3

If anyone is into motor oil info, I highly recommend this website. Lots of great info, not much b.s. . A summary of my post is below:

Just got my analysis data back today. I just got the elemental analysis info, no TBN or other info, but that is what you get for $14 Cdn, done through my local CAT dealer. Here are the results between two oils, pretty similar considering they are vastly different oils.

Info:
Castrol GTX 5w-30 - 5000 kms on oil.
Texaco Havoline Synthetic 10w-30 - 4000 kms on oil, 10,000 kms on vehicle.

Wear numbers are in parts per million - ppm.

Castrol GTX first numbers, Texaco Havoline Second numbers.

Iron - 2 , 3
Cr - 0, 0
Moly - 74 , 4
Al - 5 , 2
Cu - 2 , 2
Pb - 1 , 1
Tin - 0 , 0
Boron - 0, 0
Si - 15 , 7
Na - 3 , 5
Zn - 692 , 928
K - 0 , 1
Ni - 0 , 0
Ag - 0 , 0

No fuel, water, or antifreeze in either sample.

Engine seems to be wearing very nicely from what I can tell, extremely low copper and lead numbers. Seems like the Castrol 5w-30 GTX is working almost as well as the much more expensive Havoline synthetic. The drain intervals were pretty short , with the Castrol being used a little longer. Make up oil was .5 litres with Castrol, .75 litres with Havoline Synthetic. I am now running the Synergyn 5w-30, which I may get a more thorough analysis done this time around. The CAT dealer doesn't give you a whole lot of info but for the low cost and ease of testing I found it helpful. I was most interested in the elemental analysis. The Si number was up with the Castrol GTX sample, I stored the oils in baby food jars for a short bit, that may have affected the Si number, plus I played with air filters along the way. I don't find 15 Si all that bad though.

These engines are showing extremely low amounts of wear based on my numbers, particularly for a new engine. And I drive my car pretty hard, hitting redline at least 5-10 times per day. City driving to highway driving is 60-40 mix , with lots of short trips. Good numbers overall, very pleased. Any opinions welcomed.

Joey :)

[natesi]

Cool info!

What range of numbers would a person expect to see "normally"?

[chunky]

wow. the moly count is WAY higher for the castrol gtx than for the havoline. I guess that makes sense as the conventional oil would tend to have more anti-wear additives than the full synthetic.

However, the Al is slightly higher for the castrol than for the havoline. Since the blocks are aluminum, it would seem that either the breakin was still completeing with the castrol or that it was permitting a higher rate of wear. but it's an insignificant difference for a single trial. over time if one showed consistently higher Al than the other, it might be reason for concern.

I've been wanting to send my oil out for analysis, but damnit, I don't know of any local places.

[JSIR]

that is a good question, it varies for each vehicle, a good source is the forum I linked in the post above, you can read through other vehicle tests. You have to keep in mind the amount of miles put on the oil befor the analysis.

For me the important wear numbers are Al - Aluminum which comes from pistons, valves, etc..., . Fe - Iron which comes from cylinder liners, crank, rings. Lead - Pb which comes from bearings, Copper - Cu which comes from bearings. Cr - which comes from rings. There is no fuel, water , or antifreeze in the oil, which is good. All of the numbers in my analysis testing are good, fairly low for a new engine.

I would say anything under 20 ppm Al, 25 ppm Fe, 15 Pb, and 15 Cu, would be termed as good for a 3000 mile testing. As you can see my engine is far below those numbers.

Moly - Mo is an anti-wear additive put into the oil by the oil companies , the Castrol GTX is much higher in this addtive , which is good. Zinc is also an anti-wear additive put into oil. Calcium and Magnesium are also some dispersants or cleansers put into oil as addtives.

leaf through some of the tests in that forum I linked above, you may find it very interesting. You can do a search on Acura RSX, and find a couple tests of that vehicle to compare.

hth.

[civic hatch boi]

so wut did this test show? is castrol gtx 530 good?

[JSIR]

Chunky, if you are like me and don't know of any labs in your area, find a CAT - heavy equipment dealer, almost every medium sized city has one - and they almost always offer oil analysis testing. Mine was really cheap. For a bit more money you can send the oil out by mail to some labs across the US, I can get you some info on a good one in Texas I believe, for about $25 US, with some contact info., but you would do that through the mail. With the CAT dealer I just picked up the kit , filled it with used oil and took it back to them. I just did a cheap one for the first two tests. There is a procedure to follow to take an accurate sample out of the crankcase when draiing oil, if anyone wants more info, just let me know.

Basically I just wanted to see how much wear the engine was exhibiting.

Civic hatch boi, well yes it basically shows that the Castrol GTX 5w-30 oil performs almost as well as the Havoline Synthetic 10w-30 oil in a 3000 mile test - approx. . So if someone wanted to do 3000 mile oil changes the cost of going to synthetic really doesn't get you much more protection. There is a pretty big difference between the cost of Castrol GTX and Havoline Synthetic. And the 5w-30 weight seems more than adequate. With a synthetic oil you may want to run it for longer drain intervals though to get your money's worth. hth

[02blksi]

im an oil newbie, im not afraid to admit, care to enlighten me as to what exaclty im looking at (number wise? ) .. Looks neat though... Nice info. --Joe :)

[JSIR]

well just as I listed above, an elemental analysis is given for the amount of wear metals in the engine, from Aluminum, Iron, Chromium, lead, copper etc...., all these metals come from wearing engine parts. The higher amount of particles the more wear in the engine from parts such as crankshaft, bearings, pistons, camshafts, rocker arms etc.... , all listed in parts per million. It is important to look at the wear amounts based on mileage though, so parts per million per 1000 miles is a good rule of thumb, as my oil change interval was pretty short in this sample, 3000 miles and less. The higher the mileage the higher the numbers usually, so you really should break it down further per 1000 miles IMO.

Silicon -Si - is listed , this tells you how much dirt is entering the engine through your intake system - valuable tool. These readings are normally high for the first few oil changes as gaskets and assembly materials leach silicon. After the first few oil changes most silicon will be from the intake system. Important to know if you intake system is letting in a lot of dirt or not, especially when running aftermarket intakes.

Other important features are they tell you if you are getting fuel, antifreeze or water building up in the oil, in my case no traces of either. In some older engines if you can catch a head gasket leaking antifreeze into an oil you could save your engine, as antifreeze can kill and engine in short order if ignored.

On my next oil analysis I am going to ask for a TBN reading, as well as nitration and oxidation. This will basically tell you how long your oil can be used in the engine before it begins to degrade heavily - basically used up - in it's ability to protect the engine against acids. We are probably going find that the recommendation to change motor oil every 3000 miles is unnecessary with today's oils, quickly becoming a myth. By having info. on TBN, nitration and oxidation, it can give you the information to allow you to run your oil for a longer period of time, saving you time and money in the long run. Why dump the oil at 3000 miles if it is good to go to 5000 miles or 6000 miles perfectly fine, only way to tell is an oil analysis. hth

[Jpax]

I use REDline 10w-30 I like it. And in my 6th gen i use castrol GTX 10w-30 :D

[JSIR]

Originally posted by PaXiE
I use REDline 10w-30 I like it. And in my 6th gen i use castrol GTX 10w-30 :D

Redline is really good oil, its loaded with moly and other anti-wear addtives in very high amounts.

Paxie, you should send out a sample of that used oil when it comes time to do an oil change. Given the cost of that oil you may be able to run it longer based on the results of an analysis. You should be able to run that oil 7000-10,000 miles , with an analysis to back it up. Well worth the cost. It would be cool to have other analysis data on this site as well. ;)

[Jpax]

Is there a place were i can do it? i will. i read some were that CAT can do it for like 25.00?

I live in the seattle area, do you know of anyone. I'll post results.

[JSIR]

Originally posted by PaXiE
Is there a place were i can do it? i will. i read some were that CAT can do it for like 25.00?

I live in the seattle area, do you know of anyone. I'll post results.

Paxie that would be awesome ! we need more info. like this for our engines. There are labs all over the US, if you want to send it out as far as Texas I can get you some contact info. It was a kind of far for me to be shipping and takes too long for my impatient ass. I used a local CAT dealer for my testing, they gave me the containers to put the samples in it, they also shipped the samples to the lab for me, and I got the results e-mailed to me in 6-7 days time, it was a great deal IMO.

If you locate a CAT - heavy equipment dealer - in your local area they seem to all have access to oil analysis testing. I think $25 should do it for cost. If you locate a CAT dealer that offers that service ask them to give you TBN, Oxidation, Nitration, and Viscosity information as well as elemental analysis. It costs a bit more than just elemental analysis but is extra valuable information that you can use to estimate how long you can run the oil that you are using. TBN, Oxidation, and Nitration information basically tells you how used up your current oil has gotten in the mileage you put on it, from that you can estimate how long your next oil can be safely taken in terms of mileage. To get TBN, Oxidation, Nitration information you need to give them a virgin sample of the oil you are using (clean unused oil from a container) along with a used oil sample from your crankcase.

If you are serious about doing an oil analysis test, find a local dealer in your area and talk to them about their service. They will give you the containers that you need to fill with samples and they usually will ship them for you to the lab. Let me know if you go ahead with it , I will give you some pointers on how to take an accurate sample. I can also help you interpret the findings of the analysis once it is done. The guys at www.bobistheoilguy.com in the used oil analysis forum can give you some great opinions as well once the sample is analyzed.

keep me posted if you go ahead with it. hth.

Joey