Banjo bolt setup for oil return?

[xep3tuner]

I just wanted to get peoples input on what they think of using a banjo bolt instead of tapping the oil pan. I know there are several discussions out there where people are saying it works fine and others are against it. I know that with the Greedy Kit you get a banjo bolt and they specify in the installation manual to use the banjo setup. If anyone is using this setup please give me your input, or if you had a bad experience with this setup i also want to hear what you have to say. Thanks.

[AKEP]

i have one, but i havent driven my car yet. i dont see how its a problem. the oil pan doesnt sit below the subframe.

[japarossa]

I used it all last summer with no problems at all, it never leaked and the turbo is as tight as it was when new. You just need to pick up a few of the copper washers when you pick up the stuff for your oil change. I used the banjo fitting and bolt I listed in the emusa turbo thread.

[civictype_r04]

Most the time the bolt breaks its a bad idea!!!!! Just do it right the first time and get it welded!!!!

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[talonXracer]

I just dont think a banjo bolt fitting flows well enough for a oil return line, and where exactly is this banjo bolt being installed in the pan? It sounds like you are installing it in lieu of the oil pan drain plug???

[civictype_r04]

I just dont think a banjo bolt fitting flows well enough for a oil return line, and where exactly is this banjo bolt being installed in the pan? It sounds like you are installing it in lieu of the oil pan drain plug???

Yea that's where they put it... It's an extended drain bolt.

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[talonXracer]

A simple ricer solution.

Not too good for the seals, the return should present almost zero resistance to oil flow. And what about that set-up now agitating the sediment in the bottom of the pan back into the engines bearings.........

Heck you dont have to weld a damn thing, just get a AN bulkhead/pan fitting, basically drill a hole in the pan, clean the pan around the new hole, insert the fitting through the hole from the inside, install the outer locknut.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-670850/

[japarossa]

Sure welding in a bung or drilling it like talon said is the best way of doing it but not everyone has the ability or the funds to drop the sub frame to get the oil pan off. I wouldn't really say it a "simple ricer solution", this setup is shared by several brand name bolt on turbo kits. As for the seals they will be fine I ran mine like this all summer last year with no problems. The oil is draining into the pan not going in under pressure so you won't stir up any sediment, who has sediment in their oil pan anyways? If you have a problem with sediment build up in your oil pan correct that problem because the only thing that can be in the sediment is tiny pieces of your motor. I pulled off my pan after 100,000 kms and there was no sediment.

[talonXracer]

I am talking normal wear particles, they build up in the pan, you will eventually see it, high mileage engines always have it.

Believe me the oil is under pressure, the pan drain location is below the level of the oil, and unless they have changed the laws of physics, that line will see pressure. It is not alot of pressure but any pressure will eventually accelerate the seal failure

[japarossa]

No no changes to the laws of physics, thats why the banjo bolt works. If you were to use a clear plastic container half full of water and put a hose into the bottom of it and fill the hose with water the water would drain into the container not back up in the hose. The turbo is above the level of the oil in the pan so it drains no problem. The drain point is where it leaves the turbo not where it enters the pan, even if the fitting was in the bottom of the pan it would it would still drain. Not to mention that its a restricted 4an feed line into a unrestricted 10an drain line it can't back up.....its simple physics.

[civictype_r04]

I'm selling a pan with a welded rev hard tube to it like 2 inchs up from the drain plug.

[Tnhatch03]

i have had the greddy kit since 2003 with the banjo bolt. replace the crush washers and use your brain when loosening/tightening the banjo bolt. don't be in a hurry or something may happen.

[AUTiger]

I guess the real question would be if the oil pick-up sucks in oil faster than what is draining from the turbo at idle, part throttle and WOT. If it does, I would think that it wouldn't back up much if any.

[talonXracer]

No no changes to the laws of physics, thats why the banjo bolt works. If you were to use a clear plastic container half full of water and put a hose into the bottom of it and fill the hose with water the water would drain into the container not back up in the hose. The turbo is above the level of the oil in the pan so it drains no problem. The drain point is where it leaves the turbo not where it enters the pan, even if the fitting was in the bottom of the pan it would it would still drain. Not to mention that its a restricted 4an feed line into a unrestricted 10an drain line it can't back up.....its simple physics.

Your example only takes into account a static pressure, add in a positive 80psi on the inlet to the -10 from a -4 line into a container that is seeing positive crankcase pressure and you do indeed create a pressure within the return line. The banjo bolt fitting adds enough restriction to flow compared to a straight fitting to reduce it's flow to that of a -8 or even a -6(if the fitting is a cheapo design).

[japarossa]

It wont back up, its a long time proven method to drain the turbo. Yes it may slow down the flow of oil back into the oil pan a little bit over a straight fitting but will do nothing to slow down the oil leaving the turbo and thats what matters.

[talonXracer]

It may have been used for a cheap alternative, but it is no way shape or form equal or superior to a straight fitting added above the oil level. Which has more chance of causing a failure, there is only one answer to that question.

[japarossa]

That we can agree on, thats why on my new setup I welded in a bung above the oil level. Its a cheap alternative but more than that I thinks its good for guys that can't or don't want to remove the oil pan. Last year when I boosted my a3 I knew I was just doing it for the summer until i could get the k24 in there so it didnt make sense to pull the pan off. But you cant argue with 7 years and no problems with the greddy banjo bolt like tnhatch stated.

[AUTiger]

or you could do what the 8th gen guys are starting to do. The TSI turbo kit comes with a modified timing chain tensioner plate that the oil drains into. Can't get much higher than the oil line than there. All it will do is keep your tensioner and chain lubed more than normal. Plus you can just order the plate from TSI

[USAF EP3]

or you could do what the 8th gen guys are starting to do. The TSI turbo kit comes with a modified timing chain tensioner plate that the oil drains into. Can't get much higher than the oil line than there. All it will do is keep your tensioner and chain lubed more than normal. Plus you can just order the plate from TSI

That sounds lke a great design. I'll be considering this once I finish my build and transfer my turbo kit.

As for the banjo bolt situation, I used a return and I believe it was a # 6 or #8 AN fitting, I forgot. Nonetheless it was pretty wide. My GReddy kit was used and the person I bought it from sent me his stock pan that was already tapped. The feed line is the only thing I kept with the banjo bolt, but even then I'm going to be replacing that with a +4 AN fitting soon.

[talonXracer]

That is the perfect solution to this issue!

I didnt even consider this route, someone slap the back of my head quickly!

I think the reason why is that I had already started designing a more robust TCT that incorporates that cover into the new TCT's body(space is the #1 restriction for the current TCT design).

[xep3tuner]

It's a lot more reliable and secure to weld on a bung above the drain bolt for the return, but its also a lot more work. Easiest way is to just order a new pan from honda 70$ get a bung welded on for 10 - 20$ and just keep your stock pan in case you decide to go back to n/a.

[RickyBobby]

While the bung is a better idea I had a banjo bolt for 55,000 miles without any issues. A few things to keep in mind.

Use the poly washers, seals better at lower torque specs.
DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN THE BANJO BOLT. I never broke one but that was the most common issue I read about here.
CHANGE YOUR OIL YOURSELF. Jiffy Lube et al WILL break your banjo bolt.

Other than that, I never saw any issues with the so called back pressure and oil seals. Same seals ran for 55K.

[WPB EP3]

Banjo Bolt return is junk, period.

[Ctd-fab]

Banjo Bolt return is junk, period.

While not the best way to go about things a banjo bolt return does work. I am using one I modified, banjo to -10. No smoking or leaks anywhere. From the heat in the line you can tell the oil level backs up to about the top of the pan. I really want to do a clear return line to really tell how well it drains.