Potential EP3 Buyer, convince my parents!

[EP3 Dream]

It has always been my dream to have an EP3, hence the name:mbiggrin: but its either now, or 6 months from now (temp now and save all over again or ep3 now) my parents are chipping in, but they fear the unknown, the unknown of whether the car is safe or not and whether the car is reliable or not. I personally don't have a problem with it, and I've attempted to do my own research for safety and reliability but I already know the car is rare to begin with, so good luck to me huh? not much i can find that is official (not like msnauto or yahoo crap) i tried kbb.com edmunds.com and consumerreports.com and none know anything about it. So i come to you guys, proud owners of their own EP3. Is it safe? any concerns? any "if you fix this you'll be fine" And as for mechanical reliability, good bad eh? I heard before on the forum that there is something with the 3rd gear in almost all EP3s? And that the tacometer is not exactly acurate (big whoop). Or any other things i should know about when buying this EP3. Thanks in advnace :) (yes i did search, only found one, wondering if there is any additionals)

oh btw, im looking for a fully stock (not even red emblems :mrolleyes:) 9-10G maybe 8G car, i dont want to buy <8G just because ill always be concerned about quality, though high price doesnt garentee quality i know. and major mods that i plan on doing is lowering (1-1.5 inch semi-soft) and full-light-retrofit. Read squeaking/creaking may happen when lowering? fixable? again, thanks in advnace :msmile:

[ace of spades]

you can find mint unmolested stock EPs for under 8k.

if you check out the mileage roll call thread in this section, you will see a lot of posts on things people have replaced. in 7.5 years I needed a battery, brakes, a seatbelt buckle and a AC Compressor. but like all used cars, they have their quirks. the forums are a great place to read and learn how to do things yourself however minor or over the top the task is.

I've never been in a bad accident with mine so I can't say whether or not they are safe. it feels safe to me...

[EP3 Dream]

you can find mint unmolested stock EPs for under 8k.

if you check out the mileage roll call thread in this section, you will see a lot of posts on things people have replaced. in 7.5 years I needed a battery, brakes, a seatbelt buckle and a AC Compressor. but like all used cars, they have their quirks. the forums are a great place to read and learn how to do things yourself however minor or over the top the task is.

I've never been in a bad accident with mine so I can't say whether or not they are safe. it feels safe to me...

i agree, i had the honda fit and participated alot over at fitfreak.net, DIYs and other members do come in handy. ill take a look at that section, could give me a good idea of future fixes/spending. and thanks for the <8k and yet mint tip, ill look for those too then :) does anyone else concur with this tip? (ill still get it checked by mechanic either way)

[ace of spades]

I wouldn't spend more than $7500 for a clean stock EP.

[EP3 Dream]

04-05? from a dealer? >.> thats... kinda cheap for a sports car... despite its i-vtech

[ace of spades]

it's a sporty economy car. no Civic is a sports car.

[iDom]

Stock is the way to go. My very first car (the ep3) I bought in December of 2008. Yes, my car was molested quite heavily when I bought it, but it's fixed up now. I have a full car fax on my car, nothing mechanical has ever been recorded, no body damage, no nothing.

#1- My car needed new suspension all the way around the car, that was because the guy before me slammed it to the ground with adjustable lowering eBay springs. Not the cars fault, and the car would've been fine if it had not been molested.

#2- My car had a cheap ass eBay catback exhaust on it that did not fit the car properly, so I had to take it off one of the hangers or it would rattle on the underside of my car.. Cheap shit

#3- Yet again, it had cheap ass eBay special rear camber arms that were made from poor quality 'Stainless Steel' and were rusted so bad they couldn't be adjusted.

#4- My car had HIDEOUS altezza tail lights on it when I got it as well, those got replaced ASAP.

#5- My car had yet AGAIN, cheap eBay drilled and slotted rotors and eBay brakes (if you can't get my hint by now and if you don't already know.. STAY AWAY FROM EBAY CRAP, That's all it is, crap.. Period..) So I replaced those with quality Hawk brake pads and new blank rotors

All of the problems listed above, could have been avoided if unmolested.. So I hope that when you get the car you treat her with respect lol

But, on to the real 'maintenance' part of what I had to do to my car.. I got my car at 134k miles, I now have 164k miles. In nearly 2.5 years, what I've had to do that WASN'T the cause of someone else's stupidty (eBay parts) is simple..

#1- O2 sensor ($160 dollars, these things go, it just happens)
#2- VTEC Solenoid (sounds expensive, it wasn't.. $74 dollars to replace. Taking off the old one and putting the new one on took 30 minutes)
#3- Replaced an electronic switch on the AC Compressor (again, this was cheap.. $20 dollars for the switch, put it on myself, took about an hour)

And besides normal fluids like oil, tranny, coolant, that's it.. Honda's are known for their reliability. As you can see, things I've had to do isn't bad at all over a span of 2.5 years on a daily driven Ohio car that experiences pretty harsh weather conditions with 160+ thousand miles on it. Those 3 things i've had to replace over the 2.5 years has only cost me 250 dollars and are definitely directly related to the miles on my car. So from the birth of the car til now, I'd say $250 dollars on somewhat 'unexpected maintenance' isn't bad at all. Everything works, and I love my car. I learned A LOT fixing other peoples mistakes so I guess I can't look at it as all bad. Hope this helps!

[yyi]

04-05? from a dealer? >.> thats... kinda cheap for a sports car... despite its i-vtech

Despite its i-vtech? What? Do elaborate please.

And it is in no way, shape or form a sports car.

[iDom]

S2000 = Sports Car

[x3thelast]

i got mine used at honda for 9k only 60k miles on it back in 07. every thing was good but last year i had to replace the 02 sensor and now my front shocks are blown. i dont think honda replaced them before they sold it to me :'(

word of advice take your time look for a good deal on the car you want. if you get it from a dealer, on that 24hr grace period bring it to a mechanic you trust to have a good look at everything. so if somethings wrong you can always bring it back w/o hurting your wallet :)

[Garrett]

04-05? from a dealer? >.> thats... kinda cheap for a sports car... despite its i-vtech

i-vtec buddy, not trying to be a spell whore

[yyi]

i-vtec buddy, not trying to be a spell whore

WHAT YOU KNOW ABOUT V-TECH?/?!!?!?!?!

http://i672.photobucket.com/albums/vv82/yyipu/Randoms/PP2295.jpg

[EP3 Dream]

i-vtec buddy, not trying to be a spell whore

..really now? at least i know now lol...


Despite its i-vtech? What? Do elaborate please.

And it is in no way, shape or form a sports car.

If i were to judge the car, it isnt a sports car, but you let an insurance agent judge that, "oh its got a SI label? yup its a sports car alright" and i meant i-vtec xP so even if the car has the weakest vtec system of all hondas, its still considered a sports car in the least simply because its "SI" -.- now if i were to swap it, maybe it will actually deserve the sports title lol no biggie, not my label


Stock is the way to go. My very first car (the ep3) I bought in December of 2008. Yes, my car was molested quite heavily when I bought it, but it's fixed up now. I have a full car fax on my car, nothing mechanical has ever been recorded, no body damage, no nothing.

#1- My car needed new suspension all the way around the car, that was because the guy before me slammed it to the ground with adjustable lowering eBay springs. Not the cars fault, and the car would've been fine if it had not been molested.

#2- My car had a cheap ass eBay catback exhaust on it that did not fit the car properly, so I had to take it off one of the hangers or it would rattle on the underside of my car.. Cheap shit

#3- Yet again, it had cheap ass eBay special rear camber arms that were made from poor quality 'Stainless Steel' and were rusted so bad they couldn't be adjusted.

#4- My car had HIDEOUS altezza tail lights on it when I got it as well, those got replaced ASAP.

#5- My car had yet AGAIN, cheap eBay drilled and slotted rotors and eBay brakes (if you can't get my hint by now and if you don't already know.. STAY AWAY FROM EBAY CRAP, That's all it is, crap.. Period..) So I replaced those with quality Hawk brake pads and new blank rotors

All of the problems listed above, could have been avoided if unmolested.. So I hope that when you get the car you treat her with respect lol

But, on to the real 'maintenance' part of what I had to do to my car.. I got my car at 134k miles, I now have 164k miles. In nearly 2.5 years, what I've had to do that WASN'T the cause of someone else's stupidty (eBay parts) is simple..

#1- O2 sensor ($160 dollars, these things go, it just happens)
#2- VTEC Solenoid (sounds expensive, it wasn't.. $74 dollars to replace. Taking off the old one and putting the new one on took 30 minutes)
#3- Replaced an electronic switch on the AC Compressor (again, this was cheap.. $20 dollars for the switch, put it on myself, took about an hour)

And besides normal fluids like oil, tranny, coolant, that's it.. Honda's are known for their reliability. As you can see, things I've had to do isn't bad at all over a span of 2.5 years on a daily driven Ohio car that experiences pretty harsh weather conditions with 160+ thousand miles on it. Those 3 things i've had to replace over the 2.5 years has only cost me 250 dollars and are definitely directly related to the miles on my car. So from the birth of the car til now, I'd say $250 dollars on somewhat 'unexpected maintenance' isn't bad at all. Everything works, and I love my car. I learned A LOT fixing other peoples mistakes so I guess I can't look at it as all bad. Hope this helps!

it does help, but it also explains why i dont want any modifications whatsoever. i went to check out my first tangible ep3, had injen SRI, some 3in exhaust, and a red steering H logo. i didnt have it checked, but i didnt want it checked anyway, because if the last driver did those mods, most likely he beat it at some point, becuase thats half the reason to putting in a SRI and an exhaust. maybe he beat it alot, or maybe not alot, i rather just get a stockie and be sure. although its not 100% but more sure that the last driver was respectable to the car lol

[RHCP0801]

not all have the third gear grind, mine doesnt

[iDom]

it does help, but it also explains why i dont want any modifications whatsoever. i went to check out my first tangible ep3, had injen SRI, some 3in exhaust, and a red steering H logo. i didnt have it checked, but i didnt want it checked anyway, because if the last driver did those mods, most likely he beat it at some point, becuase thats half the reason to putting in a SRI and an exhaust. maybe he beat it alot, or maybe not alot, i rather just get a stockie and be sure. although its not 100% but more sure that the last driver was respectable to the car lol

Well the point of my entire post was this, even with people molesting them, mechanically the the car is great. Also, another point was, there's nothing wrong with doing aftermarket mods to your car, just do them right and don't get eBay garbage lol.

[yyi]

If i were to judge the car, it isnt a sports car, but you let an insurance agent judge that, "oh its got a SI label? yup its a sports car alright" and i meant i-vtec xP so even if the car has the weakest vtec system of all hondas, its still considered a sports car in the least simply because its "SI" -.- now if i were to swap it, maybe it will actually deserve the sports title lol no biggie, not my label

I think you may not have a correct understanding of the i-VTEC designation honda has used for the K series engines. The RSX-S (which you may regard as having the "stronger" vtec system) is also labeled i-VTEC as well, but lets not get into technical terms. The point is, its actually not the weakest vtec system of all hondas, far from it, albeit not the strongest either.

And just because the insurance company designate it as a "sports car" it still doesn't make it a sports car, it was still designed as economy passenger car from the ground up. But, call it a sports model? Perhaps.

[iDom]

I think you may not have a correct understanding of the i-VTEC designation honda has used for the K series engines. The RSX-S (which you may regard as having the "stronger" vtec system) is also labeled i-VTEC as well, but lets not get into technical terms. The point is, its actually not the weakest vtec system of all hondas, far from it, albeit not the strongest either.

And just because the insurance company designate it as a "sports car" it still doesn't make it a sports car, it was still designed as economy passenger car from the ground up. But, call it a sports model? Perhaps.

Wearing the 'Si' badge doesn't help at all either.. 'Sport Injected'

[mitchlikesbikes]

i paid 11k for my 05 with 50k and a few mods about a year ago now and haven't had any problems at all. i learned to drive stick in my ep3 and the tranny still shifts like butter (i did change the tranny fluid recently though). like iDom said, just stay away from ebay shit if you're planning to mod it, change fluids when you should, and it'll run forever. but chances are you'll wanna go gung-ho with mods just like the rest of us after you get a couple to start:)

[rufiogeezee]

I bought my stock EP from vegas, living here in california now, with 112k miles, its an 02, for 6 grand about 1 year and a half ago. My gut feeling on the car was right. All the check engine lights that popped up on the car were remedied by the DIY section and a little know how almost within a week of finding the problems. You can say I got lucky or what have you, but this car is great. good comuter, I'm averaging about 340 miles on a tank. No third gear grind, just the occasional miss shifting, I wear combat boots when i drive to work so going from big boots to regular shoes throws me off. Car did have a couple minor cosmetic problems that i'm currently fixing. I currently have 132k miles on it and its running as good as ever. regular maintenance is required obviously, honda manual will tell you everything you need to know on maintaining your car. I personally would have a car conscious buddy or relative look over the car if I didn't have knowledge on what to look for, and don't ever settle. It took me 8 months to find the right EP for the right price. Hope it helps and good luck

[XytL]

Bought my car with 56k in 2007, an '02 for 7500. I've had almost no trouble with it. It did have the cam galling problem that lots of the '02's had. But that's all I've had to do mechanically to keep it going. And really, I drove it for almost a year before I changed out those cams. It burns no oil, runs great. The guy before me had it dropped and had a CAI installed. Still rocking the same parts he had, and other mods I've installed. Currently in Iraq and going to be putting on a JRSC when I get back. I don't have any grind in the trans, completely thrilled with my purchase. Still believe I could sell the car for more than I bought it for 4 years later. I'd definitely recommend looking at all the options you have, an SRI and some badges don't mean that the car is gonna die prematurely. I beat on my car everytime it goes out, it's fun. :)

[02ssmEP3]

xytl is right. mods dont shorten the car in all cases. however, i think that your reasons for wanting a stock ep is somewhat irrational, because my car is 100% stock, 73k miles, and for the last 8k, ive driven the thing with my foot down, shifting at redline all the time. just cuz a car is stock doesnt mean it hasnt been beat on. plus i think that the ep will put up with a fairly high amount of abuse before something goes horribly wrong. so dont let it being driven hard be a factor in your purchase unless the car has very high mileage (125k+).

[BajaPantiEP]

Car is reliable, biggest know issue is cam gauling on exhaust cam due to using 5w20, if u do get one before getting one make sure u drive it hard and listen for a light clicking noise " not a tap!!!!! There common for alot of ticking/ tapping noising = injectors, cheap to fix, put it like this the tranny is more expensive then the engine itself, and plus ur from pa close to me, i got boy who can do anymod for you swap and what not seekspeed is the name located in slatington,,, motor swap to suspension work,,,, goodluck

[Tnhatch03]

i will need to see a picture of your mom before trying to convince them...

i have different tactics for people and it all depends on the moms.

[BajaPantiEP]

i will need to see a picture of your mom before trying to convince them...

I have different tactics for people and it all depends on the moms.

not on ep man, take the disrespect somehwere else...

[MBaG]

Keep in mind, many people return their modified car back to stock before reselling them.

[EP3 Dream]

Keep in mind, many people return their modified car back to stock before reselling them.

yup, i do plan on keeping the oem parts in the crawlspace (if temperature is not a problem) juuuuuust in case ill actually be stupid enough to sell/trade the ep lol

and never ebay parts, yuck, maybe the bumper/side lights but thats about it. and im already gung ho about modding it, been having a project/wish list of what to do to the ep. best thing is, ill have plenty time to mod it :) these are some good info, it means alot hearing it from actual ep owners than kbb or consumer reports or w/e., thanks guys :)

[XytL]

If you're gonna mod it anyway, you might as well get one with parts already on it. Save you a ton of money in the long run. Just test drive it and make sure it's all good. But shop around, there are deals to be found...4 years ago I paid 7500 like I said. Don't get a stockie just because it's stock.

[EP3 Dream]

If you're gonna mod it anyway, you might as well get one with parts already on it. Save you a ton of money in the long run. Just test drive it and make sure it's all good. But shop around, there are deals to be found...4 years ago I paid 7500 like I said. Don't get a stockie just because it's stock.

nope, i like to start from fresh and say "i did that" :)

[cronicEP]

First off, welcome to the site.

Secondly, this car is amazing for daily commutes and the occasional thrill ride up and down the mountain. My wife, brother, dad, and mom learned to drive stick in my car. I was the first to break away from auto transmissions in my family.

Let me say this, I bought the car when I was 18 with 86K miles on it for $6700 all stock from a older lady, it's a 2002. In the four years that I've owned this car I've got the car at 133K with no mechanical problems at all. I have no 3rd gear grind, no steering wheel rack squeak, no cam gaulling, this is with the occasional WOT pull. I do however have a little cutch squeak when it's cold outside. I've redone the suspension with new shocks and springs, not that the old stock ones were blown, just too high. Just maintain the car with correct fluids and she'll last forever. I think that if I hadn't swapped the K20a3 out, it would have lasted till 300K. Swapped to a TSX motor and now for sure she'll last forever.

As for safety, I recently remember when we (ephatch) lost like 4-5 member's cars in one month due to horriffic accidents, all the drivers and passengers walked away; other older members can atest to that. I've never been in a accident (knock on wood) but if I ever was in one, I have no doubt that my car would keep me safe, plus I would probably be a little bitch and cry when I saw my broken EP being towed away, FK that. Plus 04-05 models have an additional airbag on the sides of the driver and front passenger seats.

I too did months of research on the EP3 as it was my first actual car that I myself would purchased. But seriouly like I stated I was the first to break away from automatics in the family, and my parents were skeptical (they cosigned my loan). I let my parents read the online reviews, talk to them about the car alot. And even when I went for the test drive, I took my dad along so that he could get a feel for the car. I remember making a WOT run on the test drive with my dad in the car, I've never seen him laugh so hard, he fking loved it. It just takes time for parents to give in. Have at it.

Things to look for on the car you purchase is, steering wheel wear, the leather tends to wear out, also the E brake button and handle wear as does the stock shift knob. Listen for squeaks in the clutch, steering rack and suspension, also for the notorius 3rd gear grind. When you do take a test drive, please, please make a full run to redline if you can, usually the salesperson will let you make a run if you ask and seem serious about the vehicle. With a full redline run you can tell alot about a motor from a test run like this, listen for any ticking, squeaking or unusual sounds from the WOT run. All you should hear is the motor and light rumble from the stock exhaust. Also when you finish with the test drive make sure you look in the engine bay and at the exhaust and make sure they're not pouring out smoke, which can mean a faulty headgasket or something else.

Hopefully my long reply wil help you out. Keep at it with your parents, tell them that this is the car you want, which means you WILL take care of the car. Hopefully you find the right one.

Oh and BTW, FK Ebay, if you're gonna do your car, do it right, like many others have said. The only things I purchase on ebay are name-brand parts. Good luck

[ImportCustomx]

Bottom line -

Great on gas
Safe to drive ( see accident reports..majority of belted drivers in accidents walked away...not dui's etc)
Parts/working on the car is cheaper than others.
overall overhead to keep/maintain the car is very low.

like everyone else has told you...if you do it..do it right..spend the time and get the quality stuff..so what you have to wait an extra month to save up..its worth it.

[02ES1]

Not sure what other cars you're looking at but point out to your parents that the EP3 has a timing chain and wont need the expensive timing belt replacement of other cheap cars at 80k-100k and is more likely to last the life of the car. You can actually find the NHTSA crash test ratings here (http://www.safercar.gov/Vehicle+Shoppers/5-Star+Safety+Ratings/1990-2010+Vehicles/Search-Results?searchtype=model&make=HONDA&model=CIVIC&year=2002). I've personally seen a 2002 civic coupe take a Ford Explorer into the driver door at about 30mph and yeah the door was F**KED!, but the occupants were ok. These cars will protect the occupants very well in a crash, but the car will sustain heavy damage. What's more important though, surviving the crash or your car surviving?

[boricua4life]

These cars will protect the occupants very well in a crash, but the car will sustain heavy damage. What's more important though, surviving the crash or your car surviving?

:yeahthat: i crashed my car in a ditch and flipped it twice and i was okay but look at her now painted milano red;P just like everyone says they are reliable n safe

[CALI-HATCHIN310]

welcome! i too had to convince my dad that the Ep3 was safe enough to get.. i previously had a 2002 Audi A4 1.8t quattro. it was really comfy and it was pretty clean but i like to have fun when i drive and that car was not that fun.. nor could it handle for sh!t. 4 months after havin it i wen into a ditch and it was totalld. on to the next so i decided to take advantage of the opportunity. always loved imports so i looked around at some.. came down to an S2k or the Ep3. obv the Ep3 was the more practical choice.. heres where the convincin points to ur parents come in.. Even though its a 2 door hatch is pretty big, the safety system actually proved to be better than some of the new Beemers and the thing sips gas. those three main things pushed my dad over the edge to let me get one n a couple weeks later and 7k outta my pocket i got a clean ass 02 wit 67k on it. it was babied by some old fart for a while so it was in great shape. only advice is get car facts and have it checkd my a mechanic. also NO EBAY PARTS! i know every1 already said it but its really not worth it. they all blow. i got all real parts in my Si and she runs like a dream. id also like to disagree with some of u people about how they arent sports cars. maybe not Lambo status but i cant tell u how many times ive been able to pull away from $20K+ cars in a tight corner. Wit a simple list of mods im as fast if not faster than my buddies 08 mustang GT, another friends R32 and my dads a5. dont under estimate the power of V-tec!

good luck with your research and convincing!

[EP3 Dream]

theres an ep3 that is selling for 10k, however it is also about to hit 100k as well, 955xx to be exact. is it me or is it a little expensive for the milage? and also, would this not be a "logical buy" (as my dad puts it -.-) since it is 100k despite its good reliability? I want to get it checked by a mechanic but still, unlogical buy or?

[bizzle]

theres an ep3 that is selling for 10k, however it is also about to hit 100k as well, 955xx to be exact. is it me or is it a little expensive for the milage? and also, would this not be a "logical buy" (as my dad puts it -.-) since it is 100k despite its good reliability? I want to get it checked by a mechanic but still, unlogical buy or?
Way too much money. I paid $6600 for my 05 that was in great condition with 112k. Unless that thing has a KPro and a JRSC or k20a2 or other non-stock drive train, crack pipe.

[apexracing]

I bought my 03 ep3 last year. it had 194xxx on it mostly highway. its a summer only car for me and ive put maybe 3000 miles on it so far. the only mechanical things ive replaced was a passenger front wheel bearing, and the idler pulley. i paid 4300$ for my car because of the millage. it was a one owner car and i purchased it through a dealer. it was bone stock except for having new kyb gr2 struts and eibach sportline springs. The car drives amazing for an older honda and is really in good shape with a clean tittle and carfax. i've since installed a k&n short ram intake, A nice light weight set of wheels with gforce super sport a/s tires, and the depo headlights. These small cars are very safe. i bought a 2007 model fit sport in 2006 and 3 months later some kid hit me head on with a ford f250. my fit was totaled, but the damage stopped at the front end. no damage to the glass or door areas. So id say hondas are safe for sure.