Zzyzx
04-07-2011, 09:36 AM
I'm reposing this as the original has long since been forgotten & deleted off the site.
(originally posted ~08-09-2006)
I Figure its about time this is discussed, as it saddens me to see so many people put so much money in to trying to make their cars handle better, be it for the street or competition, and yet constantly go back to the craptackular OEM alignment spec's... its a Travesty! So, this threads purpose it to talk about alignments and how they help or hinder your cars performance.
First off, I'm going to assume every one already knows the difference between Camber, Caster and Toe. If not, there are a multitude of resources online that can explain them.
So why is the OEM alignment Crap? Simply because its designed to do two things. A, Maximize tire life and B, Make the car understeer, and thus keep JQ public safe from their own inability to drive properly. So you can see how it may be hampering your cars enthusiasm for turning
We're interested in, as far as street cars go, in Fixing B with out Killing A. How do we go about doing that?
Well, If you look at the OEM spec's, camber wise Honda allows for up to -1.5 deg camber on the rear (part of that "make you understeer thing") where as the front is limited to -.75 or so... Why not reverse them? Run -1.5 on the nose and -.75 on the rear? Your still Technically within OEM Spec's so tire wear should not noticeably increase, and you now have more favorable spec's for turning.
As far as toe... Toe can greatly influence the cars stability and cornering, so getting it right can make or brake a cars enthusiasm for turning. However, Toe has the side effect of Eating Tires, ya you thought it was Camber that ate tires... So, running excessive amounts of toe in an effort to make the car turn better has two downsides that may not be wanted in a street car. 1. Instability under braking as well as possibly making the car tend to wander while driving in straight lines and 2. Eating tires substantially quicker then just about any amount of negative camber...
Given this, it may be best to keep "OEM" toe settings, but if you're adventurous you may want to tweak them a bit to get the car to turn better. Try this, Toe out on the front will tend to make the car turn in quicker, toe in on the nose will make the car understeer more. Given this, Running 1/32 to 1/16th toe out on the nose will improve turn in response with a nominal amount of extra tire wear. For the rear, Toe out will increase the cars tendency to oversteer, where toe in will decrease it. So, initially you may want to run 1/32nd toe IN on the back of the car. just until you get use to the cars new found handling balance. From there you can tweak the rear toe to adjust the cars balance to meet your needs. More toe in to make it understeer more (less oversteer) More towards toe out to make it rotate more.
Caster... Caster is not adjustable with the stock equipment, and very few companies make Camber + caster plates. But if you are able, Adjusting caster is a great way to improve your cars handling, with only increased steering effort as the con (not a problem on cars with power steering). Stock adjustment calls for up to 2 deg positive Caster, I'd go so far as to double that (4 deg positive caster). because after all its free negative camber as you turn the wheels (yippie!)
So, My opinion on a good High Performance Street Alignment...
Camber Front = -1.5
Camber Rear = -.75
Toe front = 1/32nd toe out
Toe Rear = 1/32nd toe in
Caster = as much positive caster as you can get...
Now, Competition alignments will be more Extream, as tire wear is less and less an issue in comparison to making the car handle as well as possible.
Opinions? Comments? Disagreements?
(originally posted ~08-09-2006)
I Figure its about time this is discussed, as it saddens me to see so many people put so much money in to trying to make their cars handle better, be it for the street or competition, and yet constantly go back to the craptackular OEM alignment spec's... its a Travesty! So, this threads purpose it to talk about alignments and how they help or hinder your cars performance.
First off, I'm going to assume every one already knows the difference between Camber, Caster and Toe. If not, there are a multitude of resources online that can explain them.
So why is the OEM alignment Crap? Simply because its designed to do two things. A, Maximize tire life and B, Make the car understeer, and thus keep JQ public safe from their own inability to drive properly. So you can see how it may be hampering your cars enthusiasm for turning
We're interested in, as far as street cars go, in Fixing B with out Killing A. How do we go about doing that?
Well, If you look at the OEM spec's, camber wise Honda allows for up to -1.5 deg camber on the rear (part of that "make you understeer thing") where as the front is limited to -.75 or so... Why not reverse them? Run -1.5 on the nose and -.75 on the rear? Your still Technically within OEM Spec's so tire wear should not noticeably increase, and you now have more favorable spec's for turning.
As far as toe... Toe can greatly influence the cars stability and cornering, so getting it right can make or brake a cars enthusiasm for turning. However, Toe has the side effect of Eating Tires, ya you thought it was Camber that ate tires... So, running excessive amounts of toe in an effort to make the car turn better has two downsides that may not be wanted in a street car. 1. Instability under braking as well as possibly making the car tend to wander while driving in straight lines and 2. Eating tires substantially quicker then just about any amount of negative camber...
Given this, it may be best to keep "OEM" toe settings, but if you're adventurous you may want to tweak them a bit to get the car to turn better. Try this, Toe out on the front will tend to make the car turn in quicker, toe in on the nose will make the car understeer more. Given this, Running 1/32 to 1/16th toe out on the nose will improve turn in response with a nominal amount of extra tire wear. For the rear, Toe out will increase the cars tendency to oversteer, where toe in will decrease it. So, initially you may want to run 1/32nd toe IN on the back of the car. just until you get use to the cars new found handling balance. From there you can tweak the rear toe to adjust the cars balance to meet your needs. More toe in to make it understeer more (less oversteer) More towards toe out to make it rotate more.
Caster... Caster is not adjustable with the stock equipment, and very few companies make Camber + caster plates. But if you are able, Adjusting caster is a great way to improve your cars handling, with only increased steering effort as the con (not a problem on cars with power steering). Stock adjustment calls for up to 2 deg positive Caster, I'd go so far as to double that (4 deg positive caster). because after all its free negative camber as you turn the wheels (yippie!)
So, My opinion on a good High Performance Street Alignment...
Camber Front = -1.5
Camber Rear = -.75
Toe front = 1/32nd toe out
Toe Rear = 1/32nd toe in
Caster = as much positive caster as you can get...
Now, Competition alignments will be more Extream, as tire wear is less and less an issue in comparison to making the car handle as well as possible.
Opinions? Comments? Disagreements?