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EPWRC
05-15-2011, 10:00 AM
Hello,

Does anybody know if the front alloy lcas from the DC5R are stronger than the stock steel EP3 units? Also, a lot lighter? One more, lol.....anybody know how much the King Motorsport balljoint adapters cost?

Thanks for any help

27rocks
05-15-2011, 10:14 AM
Hello,

Does anybody know if the front alloy lcas from the DC5R are stronger than the stock steel EP3 units? Also, a lot lighter? One more, lol.....anybody know how much the King Motorsport balljoint adapters cost?

Thanks for any help

If you are talking about the aluminum ones then i wouldn't necessarily say they are stronger. They are definitely lighter but not enough to where you would feel a difference. What is the reasoning behind your potential purchase of these?

talonXracer
05-15-2011, 12:13 PM
They are FAR stronger than the steel units and lighter. Not too mention they also have slightly different measurements.

EPWRC
05-15-2011, 12:31 PM
Well, my right arm is bent and needs to be replaced. Figured if these were stronger and lighter and I could get them for a decent price it would be a worthwhile upgrade as I rallycross my car.

Thanks for the input so far guys!

talonXracer
05-15-2011, 12:42 PM
There is the real kicker, a decent price! The ITR LCA's are JDM products and thusly command a price that is totally absurd from most places.

EPWRC
05-15-2011, 12:57 PM
There is the real kicker, a decent price! The ITR LCA's are JDM products and thusly command a price that is totally absurd from most places.

So what would be a decent price for these? What is absurd, lol?

Just wondering so I don't get my hopes up, lol

talonXracer
05-15-2011, 03:11 PM
KMS wants 600$ for the ITR LCA's with the early balljoint insert, I have seen the ITR LCA's go for anywheres from 250$ to 350$ at numerous JDM shops.

SHG_EasyE
05-17-2011, 08:31 PM
Ive seen the arms go for $200-$250 alot lately. The King adapters are $75 plus shipping and you have to call King to order them. They may or may not be in stock at any given time.

The arms are 15mm wider per side but take away some caster aswell.

Hasbro
05-17-2011, 10:43 PM
They show up pretty regularly at clubrsx in the $250-275 range. That where I found mine. Plus the aforementioned King adapters, which aren't listed. Give them a call

http://forums.clubrsx.com/forumdisplay.php?f=197

talonXracer
05-18-2011, 04:45 AM
Ive seen the arms go for $200-$250 alot lately. The King adapters are $75 plus shipping and you have to call King to order them. They may or may not be in stock at any given time.

The arms are 15mm wider per side but take away some caster aswell.

Hmmm, I gained caster with the ITR LCA's. Must be the different setup I have.

SHG_EasyE
05-18-2011, 09:02 PM
Hmmm, I gained caster with the ITR LCA's. Must be the different setup I have.

Arm to arm they reduce caster. Must be some other part of your suspension giving you more caster.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f55/jmercado567/TypeR%20LCA/82571d33.jpg

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f55/jmercado567/TypeR%20LCA/30810ce1.jpg

EPWRC
05-19-2011, 01:23 PM
Wow, thanks for all the help guys.....now will I have any issues as far as alignment goes? I do have front camber bolts. Also, will the fact that they are wider slightly wider cause any problems? Basically I am asking is can I just bolt these on and get it aligned and be done with it? Oh yeah, the Energy Poly bushings will work in these, right?

Thank again everybody, really appreciate it!

talonXracer
05-19-2011, 01:57 PM
DO NOT go with the ES poly inserts. They require regreasing at least 1 time each season. They were brilliant at first, but within 6-8 months they were dry and had started to wear significantly. I have since gone to only OEM/Mugen bushings for the suspension.

EPWRC
05-19-2011, 02:08 PM
DO NOT go with the ES poly inserts. They require regreasing at least 1 time each season. They were brilliant at first, but within 6-8 months they were dry and had started to wear significantly. I have since gone to only OEM/Mugen bushings for the suspension.

aww crap, I bought them a while ago, lol. Guess I will just use them up and then go with your recommendation talon :)

talonXracer
05-19-2011, 02:16 PM
They are a true bitch to R&R, especially the large compliance bushing on the front of the LCA.

USAF EP3
05-19-2011, 02:41 PM
I picked up my LCA's from a member here for $300 shipped, so just search around. Also, what is the purpose of these adapters king mototrsports sell? I thought these LCA's bolt up to our subframe?

If it's about the lower ball joints, I have 05-06 Type ball joints on 02 Type S knuckles/spindles.

A little off topic:

If you were to use DCR5 LCA's knowing that they have a longer track, do you require to use Type R axles if you use Type S knuckles/spindles OR EP3 knuckles/spindles. I know it's required if you want to use the Type R knuckles/spindles, but I haven't found any info if you choose not to use them.

talonXracer
05-19-2011, 03:52 PM
I have been running typeS spec DSS 2.9 driveshafts for years with no issues. There is no real difference between the ITR and typeS knuckles, the main difference is in the LCA's.

And the insert is to adapt the ITR LCA's to the smaller ball joint of the early typeS and EP3's.

WhiteComet
05-19-2011, 05:08 PM
DO NOT go with the ES poly inserts. They require regreasing at least 1 time each season. They were brilliant at first, but within 6-8 months they were dry and had started to wear significantly. I have since gone to only OEM/Mugen bushings for the suspension.

From what I have read, the OEM bushings are crap. Some people swear by the ES inserts as long as they are maintained..... What other alternatives are there that don't costs an arm and a leg?

SHG_EasyE
05-19-2011, 05:25 PM
Yeah stay away from using the ES bushings for the compliance bushing. the reason is that poly cant take alot of pushing and pulling and stretching of the material as what happens in that compliance bushing. If its just a pivot where the poly can rotate and slide easily on the metal sleve they work fine. Ive had good experience with using them on normal pivots, like the rear bushing on our front lca's. I had them in my front control arms on my old EG and ran them for 3 years only re greasing them once, they were like new.

Also, +1 for running the arms with stock Type S axles. A year of daily driving and a track event with no issues.

talonXracer
05-19-2011, 05:58 PM
If you want to, drill and tap the outer shell portion for a 1/8"npt plug. Then every now and then remove the plug, screw in a zirk fitting and add some silicone grease, put the plug back in. This will probably be the route I go for the rest of the bushings(I have a complete rear set NIB gathering dust) and try and get a Hardrace shielded front compliance bushing.

NEO_FOLLOWER2
05-20-2011, 11:15 AM
If you want to, drill and tap the outer shell portion for a 1/8"npt plug. Then every now and then remove the plug, screw in a zirk fitting and add some silicone grease, put the plug back in. This will probably be the route I go for the rest of the bushings(I have a complete rear set NIB gathering dust) and try and get a Hardrace shielded front compliance bushing.

"shielded" front complicance bushing?

elaborate please. i havent seen/heard of shielded front lca bushings

talonXracer
05-20-2011, 11:18 AM
If you go to Hardraces website you will see them. they have a cutaway pic of them, showing the standard compliance heim type joint bushing, but has a blue silicon shield keeping crap out.

NEO_FOLLOWER2
05-20-2011, 01:00 PM
If you go to Hardraces website you will see them. they have a cutaway pic of them, showing the standard compliance heim type joint bushing, but has a blue silicon shield keeping crap out.

o i see it. that's if you get the pillowball bushing

the oem style rubber doesnt have that 'shield'

although i think you could diy a boot to shield it wouldnt be too hard. might look ghetto

SHG_EasyE
05-20-2011, 02:20 PM
No reason to shield an oem style rubber bushing. Theres no friction surface, just twisting rubber.

talonXracer
05-20-2011, 04:56 PM
yeah, the Hardrace compliance bushing is a metal and delrin bushing. These are open to the weather in every aftermarket compliance bushing other than the Hardrace which is shielded.

EPWRC
05-21-2011, 10:49 AM
will I have any issues as far as alignment goes? I do have front camber bolts. Also, will the fact that they are wider slightly wider cause any problems? Basically I am asking is can I just bolt these on and get it aligned and be done with it?

Thank again everybody, really appreciate it!

Anybody?

talonXracer
05-21-2011, 11:15 AM
There will be no issues really, other than if you drop the car alot, you will run out of adjustment on the tierod ends.

Twisted-X
05-21-2011, 01:05 PM
Can I use the Mugen front control arms (w/ King ball joint adapters) with my stock knuckles and driveshafts without issue? Are the Mugen bushings similar to the Hard Race ones?

SHG_EasyE
05-21-2011, 06:10 PM
It will be fine. Mugen bushings are stock oreintation not offset like hardrace. As long as you have the proper adapters for your ball joints it will bolt up. If you want to run a sway bar you will also need to get the DC5R sway bar. Its about 3 inches wider on each side, so the usdm bar will not reach the endlink mount on the arm.

EPWRC
05-23-2011, 02:16 PM
awesome...thanks guys!

lordofthesiths
05-30-2011, 03:33 PM
I picked up a set of DC5R lca for $200 shipped off ebay about a month ago.

02TWSI
05-30-2011, 04:35 PM
It will be fine. Mugen bushings are stock oreintation not offset like hardrace. As long as you have the proper adapters for your ball joints it will bolt up. If you want to run a sway bar you will also need to get the DC5R sway bar. Its about 3 inches wider on each side, so the usdm bar will not reach the endlink mount on the arm.

So basically, we can't use the stock front sway? Just wondering for future knowledge, the em2 sway wouldn't work with these? Planning k24 swap out so clearance is crucial

talonXracer
05-30-2011, 05:11 PM
The only confirmed SWAYBAR that will fit with the ITR LCA's is the ITR swaybar.

Clearance with a K24 may be an issue, BUT I am looking into two possible solutions on that, the first is a S2k swaybar and the second is simply to cut the hump portion of the ITR sway out and weld in a straight piece of swaybar.

The ITR bar is smaller in dia than the 02' EP3 bar, so it may clear a K24, but the top bend is a wee bit different and that may be an issue or it may not. I would search out RSX's with ITR LCA's and k24 swaps and see if there is anything, best bet would be over on ClubRSX for anything RSX related.

Here is a picture of a ITR bar and a EP3 bar
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g96/talonxracer/IMG_0760i.jpg

SHG_EasyE
05-30-2011, 05:16 PM
Yup... Honestly they can be found for cheap. Theres one on Honda-Tech right now for $75. Not a huge deal, and the combination of the wider track, added camber, and the smaller front bar makes for a drastic upgrade to handling.

talonXracer
05-30-2011, 05:28 PM
and the smaller front bar makes for a drastic upgrade to handling.

For an explanation, the ITR bar is smaller in dia., but due to its different leverage point it works better in the turns and feels softer on the bumps.

I am running Progress coilovers(in typeS spec) with ITR LCA's and ITR sway with 05' typeS rear sway, and the handling is awesome.

Twisted-X
05-30-2011, 08:42 PM
I was thinking about the sway bar difference a while ago. Would it be possible to cut of the sway bar tabs on the ITR control arms and have them re-welded where the USDM ones are? My next concern would be, how strong are aluminum welds?

02TWSI
05-30-2011, 08:59 PM
Sheesh looks like the dc5r parts list is adding up

talonXracer
05-31-2011, 08:08 AM
I was thinking about the sway bar difference a while ago. Would it be possible to cut of the sway bar tabs on the ITR control arms and have them re-welded where the USDM ones are? My next concern would be, how strong are aluminum welds?


New tabs could be welded on, but a bolt on steel tab would be easier and far cheaper. Aluminum welds are strong, but they have to be made by a specialist, not just any old hack with a wire feed welder, but because the LCA's are cast aluminum, the material adjacent to the weld becomes the weak point and not the actual weld itself.

I would consider it a serious downgrade though.

WhiteComet
06-01-2011, 10:44 AM
I have both the DC5R front sway + aluminum LCAs sitting in my garage but am not sure about installing them for the following reasons:

1. Not sure about the clearace with a k24a2 swap which I may consider doing later on.

2. I'm running the HFPs suspension and am not sure if the 22m front sway will be too soft handeling wise. Most of the suspension gurus and autocross folks running the HFP/Aspec use stiffer F/R swaybars like the Hotchkis to make up for the softer suspension.

I may think about getting the Cusco F/R sways if I feel like dropping the money...but then still have to worry about k24 clearance.

Quick question: would k24 clearance issues only be with a Race header? I plan on running a stock/shorty header with the k24a2. So would I still have clearance issues?

Zzyzx
06-01-2011, 10:55 AM
2. I'm running the HFPs suspension and am not sure if the 22m front sway will be too soft handeling wise. Most of the suspension gurus and autocross folks running the HFP/Aspec use stiffer F/R swaybars like the Hotchkis to make up for the softer suspension.


How much static camber are you running?

Otherwise, my issue with installing the DC5R parts is due to the decidedly lack of tuning options. You either have to run the DC5R anti-roll bar or run none at all. That or get to know a welder and add some mounting points to the anti-roll bar...

WhiteComet
06-01-2011, 01:16 PM
I have -1.5 negative camber. I will be getting Dunlop Star Specs 225/45/16 soon.

The tuning options are not THAT bad. If I want to go stiffer, I only need to drop a few hundred dollars more for the 25mm Cusco DC5R front sway....which will be equivalent to the Hotchkis sway.

The only option I would lose is the 15m EM2 Sway...which will likely be too soft for my suspension setup anyways.

Zzyzx
06-01-2011, 01:34 PM
I have about -1.5 negative camber. I need new tires soon and will be getting Dunlop Star Specs 225/45/16.

The tuning options really are not THAT bad. If I want to go stiffer, I only need to drop a few hundred dollars more for the 25mm Cusco DC5R front sway....which will be more or less equivalent to the Hotchkis sway.

if you are not hitting the bump stops, stiffening the bar will do more harm then good. Especially since the better option is to run more static negative camber. aim for -2 to -2.5 & track side wall roll over.