Check engine light doesn't come on at all?

[TheBestUkester]

So I got this new to me EP3, (supercharged, coil overs, bbk, other goodies)

But the CEL doesn't even come on when I turn the key, so I failed emissions, passed everything else but that.

I know it doesn't have a bulb, and I am 99% sure I didn't see a kpro in there, so any other way to disable the CEL at all? I think they pulled a code that it was running lean, which should throw the CEL right?


Thnx for the help guys, I gotta pass!

[FoReVaPmP]

Sorry to hear bud.... but where did you buy your car???....


Kpro should be behind the glove box.... and if you're SC then I would say you have a power card or Kpro... or the car would run like shit!...

if you can go to Advance Auto and have them scan your car and get the code.... We could possibly help get rid of your Cel!....


GL mang!!!

[TheBestUkester]

I looked behind the glove box, seems like the stock ECU to me, def didn't see any usb cords chillin back there...

I will dive in again and take a closer look, but couldn't they just have reflashed the ECU?



And its not popping a CEL at all, the light straight up doesn't work. At this point I would rather it be throwing a light/code. At least that I would know how to fix ;)

[FoReVaPmP]

I looked behind the glove box, seems like the stock ECU to me, def didn't see any usb cords chillin back there...

I will dive in again and take a closer look, but couldn't they just have reflashed the ECU?



And its not popping a CEL at all, the light straight up doesn't work. At this point I would rather it be throwing a light/code. At least that I would know how to fix ;)

Kpro is a "Stock" ECU .... only difference is a usb hookup on the side.... When "some" people sell their cars they take the USB cord.

the light isn't important... but whatever code you are thowing is... Get a OBDII reader and see what your codes are.

[TheBestUkester]

Guess now that I know what I am looking for it will be easier to find. ;)

Its not having any problems and only throwing a lean code. Already checked that, and the car runs fine. I just need to figure out how to get the CEL to work to pass emissions.

Guess it must have a kpro?

[talonXracer]

You need to get the actual code #, Honda uses their own code definition that is NOT covered on most all readers.

See if the harness has been cut spliced and any power card installed.

Alos what size pulley?

[rallyp3]

Its my understanding that he's not failing because hes throwing a code, but because the light isn't turning on in the first place when you first turn the car on (which is an instant fail) so it IS important. May not be to the mechanical issues of the car, but for the legality of his inspection its important.

[TheBestUkester]

Its my understanding that he's not failing because hes throwing a code, but because the light isn't turning on in the first place when you first turn the car on (which is an instant fail) so it IS important. May not be to the mechanical issues of the car, but for the legality of his inspection its important.

Bingo!


And I will check the ecu and wiring when I get a chance after work. As far as the pulley goes it's just the 4" pulley atm

[talonXracer]

The bulb is probably removed/burnt, the gauge cluster has to be removed and then check the bulb.

[TheBestUkester]

The bulb is probably removed/burnt, the gauge cluster has to be removed and then check the bulb.

If I am not mistaken the cel is soldered to the speedo board right?

[oldschoolimport]

apparently it had a problem, and rather than fix the problem, the previous owner removed the bulb.

[TheBestUkester]

apparently it had a problem, and rather than fix the problem, the previous owner removed the bulb.

It is throwing a lean code. Which is to be expected with the supercharger.


I figured that they would somehow bypass it when tuning. I am still new to Honda/the K series motor. A wee bit different then the BMW world I am used to.

[talonXracer]

If I am not mistaken the cel is soldered to the speedo board right?

I was not aware of that, the schematics show a conventional bulb and the usual practice is to remove the bulb.

Unless you have Kpro there is really nothing to tune, the power card is basically plug and forget. There are several lean codes, we require the EXACT code# in the PXXXX format as the universal code readers DO NOT have the correct definition retained.

You should NEVER expect to run lean on a supercharger unless you want a pile of debris, The entire supposed purpose of the power card and to a much greater extent and success with Kpro is to not have ANY lean conditions.

[oldschoolimport]

It is throwing a lean code. Which is to be expected with the supercharger.


I figured that they would somehow bypass it when tuning. I am still new to Honda/the K series motor. A wee bit different then the BMW world I am used to.

so its throwing a code, but the light NEVER comes on?

[TheBestUkester]

So I tore into it tonight.

Ecu is completely stock. Which is weird cuz the car "seems" to run fine? At least not as badly as I would think with bigger injectors, a supercharger, an intake, and headers...

Radio fuse is good. Read online that taking out that fuse could take out the cel.

Speedo looks fine... It does look like someone tried to tamper withthe cel on the board, gunna have to dive into that on my day off (how do I take the needles off?)

Thought of something though, thecae came with no stereo. Would that effect anything?

[TheBestUkester]

so its throwing a code, but the light NEVER comes on?

bingo


I was not aware of that, the schematics show a conventional bulb and the usual practice is to remove the bulb.

Unless you have Kpro there is really nothing to tune, the power card is basically plug and forget. There are several lean codes, we require the EXACT code# in the PXXXX format as the universal code readers DO NOT have the correct definition retained.

You should NEVER expect to run lean on a supercharger unless you want a pile of debris, The entire supposed purpose of the power card and to a much greater extent and success with Kpro is to not have ANY lean conditions.


Yea after tearing into it the light is def on the board. no doubt about that. All T5 or whatever bulbs are in there are for the gauges themselves. And I will get the exact code tomorrow before work and post it up.

If this is indeed running with no tune, then I will take it into Evolution Motorsports here and get them to tune it on their dyno within the next week or two.



But I have to pass emissions first...

[FoReVaPmP]

Get Kpro!...

[TheBestUkester]

So maybe I am confused...

This is from Jackson Racing's website:
"The new Race Upgrade Kit raises the bar even higher by boosting the supercharger output to 8psi with a 4.0" supercharger pulley . Hondata provides the perfect tune-up by reflashing the stock ECU. This raises the rev limit to 7,500 rpm. Fuel and timing maps are perfected to work with the instant boost provided the the JR62 Gen IV Supercharger. The combination delivers an increase of 80 horsepower along with huge gains in torque throughout the powerband."


The race kit comes with a reflashed ECU? Because the car runs fine... At least I don't hear/feel/see any problems with it at all.

I won't drive it till I get it figured all out, but I will go get the codes pulled just to be sure.

[TheBestUkester]

Ok so, I took it to two local shops here and had the car checked out. Both of their Honda techs/Dyno tuners agree that the car is tuned somehow, but none of us know what tune/how it was tuned.

I also got the codes pulled, and I was way off. Its not running lean, but rich.

Code P0172

Not exactly sure how I got that mixed up. But whatever.



Still no ideas on how the CEL is disabled, I am going to have to find the wiring diagram and trace the wires see if any are cut, and find out if the ECU is specifically not sending a signal to the CEL. Also want to try a new speedo and see if that works, anyone out in AZ wanna trade speedos for 15 minutes?

[Jmage]

Hey! let me know if you find anything on this, I have the same problem. My CEL doesn't come up and my OpenTrunk light too... I do have a code the infamous P1457 and I think that's why the previous owner might have disabled the CEL. But I don't know how he did it.

The CEL isn't a LED? Like soldered to the cluster circuit board ?

[TheBestUkester]

The CEL isn't a LED? Like soldered to the cluster circuit board ?

yes it is.

[apexracing]

Well I'm in for updates seems confusing indeed.

[omgheyitskenny]

Ok so, I took it to two local shops here and had the car checked out. Both of their Honda techs/Dyno tuners agree that the car is tuned somehow, but none of us know what tune/how it was tuned.

I also got the codes pulled, and I was way off. Its not running lean, but rich.

Code P0172

Not exactly sure how I got that mixed up. But whatever.



Still no ideas on how the CEL is disabled, I am going to have to find the wiring diagram and trace the wires see if any are cut, and find out if the ECU is specifically not sending a signal to the CEL. Also want to try a new speedo and see if that works, anyone out in AZ wanna trade speedos for 15 minutes?

Take it to Joe at Locash racing on university and 41st.

The Honda master will give you all the answers you need ;)

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[TheBestUkester]

I will.

I had a thought though, your in gilbert, would you mind meeting up (maybe even at the SanTan meet on wednesday) and letting me swap speedos for like 10 minutes. I want to make sure the PO didn't mess with the speedo on this.

[TheBestUkester]

For those wondering, I was finally able to find a local EP'er (who also does amazing fab work and has his own shop, so hes going to hook me up with an exhaust)

Swapped speedo's for 10 min, problem solved. Looks like the PO did something to the cluster. Good to know ;-)

[Jmage]

For those wondering, I was finally able to find a local EP'er (who also does amazing fab work and has his own shop, so hes going to hook me up with an exhaust)

Swapped speedo's for 10 min, problem solved. Looks like the PO did something to the cluster. Good to know ;-)

Glad it turned good for you :)

I guess I'll need a new cluster if I want that CEL to work again or having someone resolded the led on the board...

[Ba82Ep3]

Sounds like the PO took KPro, installed a stock ECU, dropped in big ass injectors to add extra fuel in hopes of it running OK to sell it. Once the Check Engine light came on, he disabled the light so the average buyer was none the wiser.

He gets to sell the car, sell or reuse his KPro.. and you get to waste your time trying to figure out WTF is goin on. Havin fun? lol

You NEED either a power card or some form of engine management before you destroy your engine. If its running rich enough, it will wash out the rings of oil and destroy your cylinder linings/rings and every bearing in the block. Pull your dipstick to see if the oil on it smells like fuel. if it DOES... you need to solve the issue ASAP...

[spatula]

When I bought my EP3 the previous owner had pulled the check engine light for the air temp sensor that plugs into the intake. So I had had to spend $140 on a new cluster since he mangled the old one... and then $20 on the sensor.

Lesson learned: When buying a car always turn the key to the ACC position and make sure the CEL lights up. If it doesn't light up the seller is hiding something.

[TheBestUkester]

reasons as to why the CEL was disabled are beyond me... But having 2 different shops and 2 different tuners look at the car and tell me I am fine is ok for me. For now. Kpro is def in the works, but I think I will need a new ECU since apparently this one is flashed.

I will check the fuel in the oil though. Right after I pass emissions.

[ep3jd]

You can upgrade from a reflash to kpro..

[Ba82Ep3]

If you are referring to a Hondata reflash... to my knowledge there isnt one for a SC'd setup. The only other Hondata ECU 'reflash' that might be possible is K100, which is no longer available in the USA.

If you pull the glovebox down (two clips in each corner) you can clearly see the ECU, and can find out if it has either a K100 module or KPro from Hondata. KPro is really obvious because there will be a USB port to the left of the top center ECU 10mm bolt. This port is added for KPro. For k100 you have to remove the three ECU plugs, three 10mm bolts, and four phillips head screws to look inside the case for the added K100 board. A Hondata sticker is applied for both applications and can easily be removed, so dont rely on that as your only indicator. More info is available at www.hondata.com.

Please, please, *PLEASE* do not dismiss this as OK just because two 'tuner shops' told you so. 30 minutes of your time, can save you thousands of dollars in repairs. This forum is here to help you... not send you on a wild goose chase. Let us know what you find out.

[TheBestUkester]

Well the car has been parked, been fun getting rides to work from the wife. Finally got my check engine light taken care of, been doing other maintenance.

The wife is not ok with me dropping a grand on a kpro atm... So looks like powercard is going to have to get me though. Anyone know where to get one. The PowerCard website, and JacksonRacing have not responded to my emails.

Thanks guys!

[TheBestUkester]

Ok well finally got ahold of someone at Moss Racing which apparently now owns the Jackson Racing supercharger line, and powercard.

Can't powercard with the bigger injectors, need to go K100 or Kpro. The Wife is gunna love that... ;)