whats the difference??? help

[qnzjay69]

Ok so I'm lookin to do a motor swap, I really don't want to do a k24, so I'm wonderin wats the difference between the k20a2 in the rsx type s and the k20 ep3 type r motor? And fund wise iif its not much of a difference should I just go wit the rsx a2? Thanks a lot guys

[02TWSI]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_K_engine


K20a.org

[Nickle n Dimin]

i thought the k24a2 was a better choice , am i wrong . im also trying to get info on future plans on swaping engines

[heyvortek]

the k24a2 has more tq but does not rev as high as the k20a2. i prefer the k20a2 bc its a str8 swap. the k24 needs a crv passenger motor mount. you can also do a k24a1 which is cheaper but its a beefed up version of the k20a3.

[Nickle n Dimin]

is there a way around the lower revs of the k24a2 l to make them compete with the k20a2

[qnzjay69]

So is the k20a2 type s then same as the ep3 type r?

[heyvortek]

you can rev the k24a2 to 8k but it wont make power beyond a certain point. im sure doug or someone will chime in. dont get me wrong, i thnk the k24a2 is a great motor. dont worry about where you can rev. k24 have much better tq than k20

[j0000stin]

you can rev the k24a2 to 8k but it wont make power beyond a certain point. im sure doug or someone will chime in. dont get me wrong, i thnk the k24a2 is a great motor. dont worry about where you can rev. k24 have much better tq than k20

your letting a 40 dollar mount stop you. thats weak haha. k24a2 may not rev as high but the tq down low makes up for it. and they can be had cheaper than an a2.

[02TWSI]

So is the k20a2 type s then same as the ep3 type r?

Which type r? jdm NO, euro YES.

[heyvortek]

your letting a 40 dollar mount stop you. thats weak haha. k24a2 may not rev as high but the tq down low makes up for it. and they can be had cheaper than an a2.

i had the mount....i just found a sweet deal for the k20a2...$800 for a long block :)

[AKEP]

the k24a2 is what the rsx guys upgrade to. if u wanna "compete" with the k20a2, then get a k20a2. if u want to kill k20a2's then get the k24a2. its practically the best motor honda has out that we know of (FWD). they said the k20a is just a fanboy motor, that even the a2 internals are stronger than the k20a alone. i think you're looking at just the type r cams being better than the a2's and the k24a2's second generation cams being even better. i would get what you can afford if you need it, or save up and get a 05-06 k24a2 if u just want it. thats the easy way though until u start gettting into frank swaps. and some other stuff...

[02TWSI]

K20a is not just a set of cams...

[whatsvtec]

is there a way around the lower revs of the k24a2 l to make them compete with the k20a2

Get everything that rotates internally re-balanced(to ~10k) rpm so that higher rev's are still safe? I've always wanted to try this for the best of both worlds.
Idk abt how much more power it might make after a certain point though, I'll leave that to the more knowledgeable.

[02TWSI]

The k24a2 won't be happy revving past 8 without a 50*vtc and some cams. There's k20s and k24s stroked to 2.5 and even 2.6 liter revving clear to 9.... like I said a lot of you need to do yourself the favor and read some more on k20a.org....

[whatsvtec]

The k24a2 won't be happy revving past 8 without a 50*vtc and some cams.

Sounds fine and dandy to me! :thumbu:

[02TWSI]

To the original poster, do you have kpro? Honestly best bang for buck 2.0 is gonna be the k20a2 because any jdm k20a is going to cost you double for the same powerband and a bump in compression. Goodluck and sorry your thread turned into a how high can a xyz rev while making power thread.

If you want a really good usdm motor, the k20z1 from the 05/06 type s is a BOSS right out of the box.

[qnzjay69]

To the original poster, do you have kpro? Honestly best bang for buck 2.0 is gonna be the k20a2 because any jdm k20a is going to cost you double for the same powerband and a bump in compression. Goodluck and sorry your thread turned into a how high can a xyz rev while making power thread.

If you want a really good usdm motor, the k20z1 from the 05/06 type s is a BOSS right out of the box.

Thank u very much bro! I greatly appreciate ur answer because no one really answered my question directly, where can I find a k20z1 and is there a big difference between z1 and a2? Is it worth the extra money for the z1? Thanks a lot again

[02TWSI]

Some will argue that you can make the same power out of an a2 with cams BUT, stock for stock without cracking the motor open the z1 is leaps ahead in power. I'm not sure on pricing because I hardly see them for sale. Is it worth the extra money is totally up to your wallet haha. Check local junk yards, k20a.org classifieds and clubrsx classifieds.

Anyone know if you still need to buy the really expensive version of kpro to run the z1 in an EP? Or is that for the rsx only?

[Deadphishy]

The k24a2 won't be happy revving past 8 without a 50*vtc and some cams. There's k20s and k24s stroked to 2.5 and even 2.6 liter revving clear to 9.... like I said a lot of you need to do yourself the favor and read some more on k20a.org....

What? If you are rocking 50* advance on a k24 anywhere near 8k, You are doing something horribly wrong. And if your rocking 50* on a motor with any cam worth it's weight, your also doing something very wrong, and you can kiss some valves good bye.
A k24 with type S or 06+ cams will make peak power around 7.2K~7.4. pending the supporting mods. So your going to want to shift around 7.6-7.8ish. Thats close enough to 8k.

Euro EP3 Type R = k20a2
I would take a k20a2 over a Z1.
I would take any k24 over any k20.

[02TWSI]

What? If you are rocking 50* advance on a k24 anywhere near 8k, You are doing something horribly wrong. And if your rocking 50* on a motor with any cam worth it's weight, your also doing something very wrong, and you can kiss some valves good bye.
A k24 with type S or 06+ cams will make peak power around 7.2K~7.4. pending the supporting mods. So your going to want to shift around 7.6-7.8ish. Thats close enough to 8k.

Euro EP3 Type R = k20a2
I would take a k20a2 over a Z1.
I would take any k24 over any k20.

No one said rock 50*, but if you're revving that high(over 8k) you had better have the 50*vtc from the rsx because the 25*vtc that comes with the tsx isn't going to cut it....

hondata.com/tuning_k24a2_tsx_engine.html

[RHCP0801]

ditch the k20 mentality all together and get a k24a2, its night and day from a k20 and if you want to kill k20a2's like the person up there said, get a k24a2. You can find k24a2 for the same if not cheaper than k20a2's, i got mine with 39k, 30 day warranty and delivered to my house for $1800. Some people have gotten it cheaper also. Call your local junkyards, thats the best way to find a motor

[02TWSI]

ditch the k20 mentality all together and get a k24a2, its night and day from a k20 and if you want to kill k20a2's like the person up there said, get a k24a2.

Agreed, all you change is ONE mount bracket, do something with the coolant ports, and remove your front sway !

[RHCP0801]

all you have to do is change over the thermostat, i still have the front sway on my car

[02TWSI]

all you have to do is change over the thermostat, i still have the front sway on my car

Good to know, which header are you running?

[RHCP0801]

the one from speedstar racing

[AKEP]

K20a is not just a set of cams...

not saying thats ALL a k20a is, just something i read on the impression of someone that had tried to build/swap an rsx and then decided to boost it. he blew up his jdm k20a and either swapped in a k20a2 or that was the engine he had originally swapped out, either way the same exact setup handled that and a bag of chips afterwards. the dude ended up saying that he had pretty much wasted 4k on the engine when he already had the k20a2.

but that was like back in 04-05 so yeah, maybe im full of shit. after that i just assumed a2 internals were made of unobtainium or something.

side story* my friend was racing his type s w/comtech sc with a 3" pulley and mis-shifted, datalog recorded 11.2k rpm and the compression test came back good, all that happened was a few parts of the belt had shreded.i didn't believe it until i saw it myself. - why i think the a2 is beastly. (until the z1, of course)

so yeah, OP, like doug has said many times, the k24a1 is what the ep should have came with. as that the k24a2 is what the type-s should have came with (from what crsx says, and the difference in vtec mechanisms from ep to dc5 in retrospect). the a3 should have came in the em2 or soemthing, so it could have at least shared the k series platform.

just read a bit more about the swaps and see what you would want to do, what fits your budget, or how to make it on budget. you can find k24a1's for cheap, i've found some around my area for $400. thats cheaper than cat-back exhaust! but definatly get that kpro.

good luck!

[AKEP]

Anyone know if you still need to buy the really expensive version of kpro to run the z1 in an EP? Or is that for the rsx only?

i wondered too, but i been dealing with a dude that's been trying to get his 05 rsx to run a jdm k20a. i think you only need the expencive version if you're using THAT harness with the 05+ rsx emissions equipment. so im assuming that you can use the ep's harness (if it works, idk if it does) and ep3 kpro, as long as you dont use the z1 trans, should be good. he's getting a p0010 dtc and we're not sure if thats because its the wrong kpro version, or if his ecu is jacked, it only stays on low speed cam and is either *50 (about 10% or less of the time) and 0* the rest of the time. i checked all the wires and the vtc solenoid for him and it all checks out. gotta be the ecu somehow.

that guy with the jdm k20, with the jumper harness and an 02 type-s kpro, his speedo doesn't work, even though kpro can see the (accurate) speed. i already told him he needed the speed conversion thingy for his cluster, so yeah, just thought i'd share that little tidbit. [/threadjack]

[qnzjay69]

not saying thats ALL a k20a is, just something i read on the impression of someone that had tried to build/swap an rsx and then decided to boost it. he blew up his jdm k20a and either swapped in a k20a2 or that was the engine he had originally swapped out, either way the same exact setup handled that and a bag of chips afterwards. the dude ended up saying that he had pretty much wasted 4k on the engine when he already had the k20a2.

but that was like back in 04-05 so yeah, maybe im full of shit. after that i just assumed a2 internals were made of unobtainium or something.

side story* my friend was racing his type s w/comtech sc with a 3" pulley and mis-shifted, datalog recorded 11.2k rpm and the compression test came back good, all that happened was a few parts of the belt had shreded.i didn't believe it until i saw it myself. - why i think the a2 is beastly. (until the z1, of course)

so yeah, OP, like doug has said many times, the k24a1 is what the ep should have came with. as that the k24a2 is what the type-s should have came with (from what crsx says, and the difference in vtec mechanisms from ep to dc5 in retrospect). the a3 should have came in the em2 or soemthing, so it could have at least shared the k series platform.

just read a bit more about the swaps and see what you would want to do, what fits your budget, or how to make it on budget. you can find k24a1's for cheap, i've found some around my area for $400. thats cheaper than cat-back exhaust! but definatly get that kpro.

good luck!

Well here's the thing, I wana do a simple swap without havin to worry about addons and replacements just to get the motor to sit in the engine bay but I don't no much about doin a swap, I don't plan on doin this till next spring since car will b paid off then, I was thinkin of the
Z1 because I really want to go turbo, wit the cost of a jdm k20 I could just get a z1 and turbo it for the same price, now my ? Is there a big difference between the a2 and z1? Which one will handle the turbo better id say at about 8psi? I don't plan on goin crazy wit the turbo and do I need a specific kpro for the z1 ?

[AKEP]

not sure about the z1 and kpro, but i think it works as long as you dont have the z1 trans. if u want to budget swap and boost you could go k24a1 and emusa kit, and all that. a2/z1 would be nice too if you dont mind the money. i think you will weild better numbers with a k20a2/z1 too.

[qnzjay69]

not sure about the z1 and kpro, but i think it works as long as you dont have the z1 trans. if u want to budget swap and boost you could go k24a1 and emusa kit, and all that. a2/z1 would be nice too if you dont mind the money. i think you will weild better numbers with a k20a2/z1 too.

Yea I figure if I don't go wit an k24a2 then ill just go wit a z1, I won't do a k24 unless its the a2, do u no anything bout the z3? Didn't the z3 come in the 06+si? Or am I. Mistaken?

[RHCP0801]

yes, the z3 comes in the 06+si

[iDom]

What I've found while looking at this topic

OEM for OEM motor, the TSX k24a2 is the way to go. I've read that it has the beefiest internals of the lot, and the reason you don't need to rev it high is because of the displacement, it applies its power at much much lower and lasts all the way to red line. Unlike the k20a2 that you have to rev the nuts off of and be in the high range to start making power. The TSX will scoot and it's a heavy, heavy "luxury" oriented sedan.. Put that engine in a small and much lighter, more nimble car like the ep3 and it'll be all good.

I know forced induction wasn't mentioned and not of interest, but think about it.. Some guys spend 4-5k on turbo'ing their a3's to gain what a simple engine swap will do, and it will be as reliable as the Honda name as long as you don't drive it like a d bag and it's much cheaper.
Engine
Karcepts
Passenger Side Mount
K-Pro
Good to go.. For the most part

[talonXracer]

What I've found while looking at this topic

OEM for OEM motor, the TSX k24a2 is the way to go. Good to go.. For the most part

Absolutely, but to get the most, the proper trans should be selected. My choice would be a base 02'-04' RSX 5 speed with a TSX 6th gear added along with a LSD, again utilizing all OEM components. I would even use a OEM K20Z3 flywheel with a stg 3 kevlar clutch(about the only thing aftermarket), and you might as well throw in a set of OEM RDX injectors to round out the OEM combo.

[iDom]

Absolutely, but to get the most, the proper trans should be selected. My choice would be a base 02'-04' RSX 5 speed with a TSX 6th gear added along with a LSD, again utilizing all OEM components. I would even use a OEM K20Z3 flywheel with a stg 3 kevlar clutch(about the only thing aftermarket), and you might as well throw in a set of OEM RDX injectors to round out the OEM combo.

If you're just planning on running the k24a2 with normal bolt-on's (220-230whp), how would a mildly upgraded clutch compare?
Something like the clutch/flywheel combo's on club rsx, like the stage 2 competition one with the lightened flywheel? I understand a lot of people think OEM and I am one of those people as well, but what I mentioned would be a pretty solid option as well, right?

Also, I have read that lightened flywheels can be a pain in the ass for DD, I have zero experience so I don't know.

[lemonhead228]

Yea I have to say k24a2 all the way hands down is the best choice. That'd what I'm saving up for.

See wit it being a bigger motor, it doesn't need to rev high cuz when the k24 is raving at 7k, the pistons are going as fast as a k20 or s2k being at 9k.

And the k24 start making power at 2k through redline, unlike the k20s they start making power at 4k through redline.

Wit simply bolt ons, you gonna be toying wit g35, 350z, s2k, ect.....