Wilwood's leaking

[Twisted-X]

Need some help/opinions. I installed and bled the Wilwood front brake kit and managed to snap the driver's side flex line coupling where it goes into the 90* fitting in the caliper, and I've ordered a replacement. Well, its taking forever to get here. The car's been sitting a little over a week (while I wait and drive the beater), and both front wheels have a little bit of fluid (maybe a dime sized spot) on the inside, and before I parked it I made sure there wasn't any fluid dripping anywhere. It looks to me like its leaking from either the bleeder screws or where the 90* fitting enters the caliper.
Why doesn't Wilwood give torque specs for these things?

[Lucid Moments]

So let me get this straight. You cracked the fitting on only one side, but you are having leaking problems on both sides?

I've had problems in the past with leaking from where that 90* fitting enters the caliper. Are you using any sealant on it?

[Twisted-X]

I cracked the fitting on the caliper side of the "flex line". Its not leaking at all. Bone dry. What is leaking is the 90 degree fitting that the flex line attaches where it goes into the caliper. I'm absolutely amazed that Wilwood gives no instruction at all about installing the flex line kit. Its almost like their attitude is, "here's the kit just slap it on", and then when you call and wonder why the fcuk there aren't any torque ratings or how the fcuk your supposed to install the little rubber grommet they act like your a moron.

Back to topic, I just did some FAQ searching and in one how-to for an old EF they say they used Teflon tape where that fitting enters the caliper. I did not do this, and assume this is why my calipers are weeping brake fluid. Again, would have been nice to have a heads-up in the form of a memo included with the flex line kit.

I know I do a lot of [complaining] about aftermarket parts, but I'm amazed at how completely lazy most tuner companies are. Things like missing/incomplete instructions, no torque ratings, missing parts (bolts), under-engineered parts.

[talonXracer]

Wilwood provides all the directions needed. I had absolutely no issues with my Willwoods. That fitting requires teflon sealant(tape) and DOES NOT have a specific torque value as it is a NPT thread.

The majority of performance parts manufacturers assume that the installer already has mastered the basic skills of installing hydraulic lines as well as safety wiring the bolts to complete the install.

[Twisted-X]

I think that that is a convenient way to look at the fact that they are assuming I have the knowledge of their product that they have. I've done 1 full and 3 partial brake line replacements in 4 different vehicles using standard hard and soft lines. Never once did I have to use the same product I would use to fix household pipes (PTFE). I'm not sure why Wilwood decided to use an inherently leaky connection (without a sealant) like NPT threads on something that can mean life-or-death. I don't have experience with NPT threaded applications in brakes because none of the standard auto manufacturers cars use it (that I've worked on). That being said, how do you know if you have an NPT too tight?

I have saftey wired and "Loctite Red"ed all bolts as required (and directed in the included instructions). Despite what you obviously think Talon, I'm not a complete idiot. :mwink:

Found this useful:

NPT fitting tightness (http://www.mechanicsupport.com/articleFittingTight.html)

[talonXracer]

Not saying you are bro, Teflon sealant isnt needed with modern brakes, they are designed for easy clamping and sealing with banjo fittings and double flairs. WillWood uses the standards used by many in the racing arena(which can be behind the times in some regards, LOL) and are NOT D.O.T. approved.

I have used many a NPT fitting on brake systems and other high pressure hydraulic systems on aircraft, they go hand in hand with AN fittings.


Also the intended useage for the brakes, sanctioned racing(where safety wire is required and used in place of locktite), requires a higher standard of safety. I have used the WillWoods with "red" on the rotor bolts and "blue" on mount brackets without any safety wire for over a year and they never loosened, there are different levels of safety and the locktite provides the safety level required of a street driven car(so dont fret too much if your safety wire job isnt the best)

[RedSiBaron]

come on guys, with the right safety wire pliers its FUN TO DO!!! (not being sarcastic, i enjoy safety wiring shit)


but also, i just installed a wilwood kit on this ek track car ive been building, and no where does it say whether or not to put teflon tape or anything on that 90 degree fitting, and i too noticed some minor leaking on one and none on the other...but it also STOPPED leaking... ???

[talonXracer]

I suspect the reason for not having sealant in the directions is probably the same reason why they do not specify what tool to tighten bolts with or which end of the screwdriver is the working end, it is such a common given step with NPT threads. AGAIN these are race only parts, WillWood assumes you already understand the basics of race components, generally several steps above a factory tech/shadetree mechanic's skill level.


And yes, properly safety wired bolts just look the race part! LOL

[Twisted-X]

Ninja Edit: I just called Wilwood and explained my situation to them and they did in fact suggest Teflon tape or "goop".

You can defend Wilwood until you're blue-in-the-face (and insult our intelligence while your at it), but I still think its a raw deal that they give you a 3 page front-and-back installation manual for the brakes themselves but *nothing at all* about the flex line kit. There were no instructions, thus nothing to be "left out". They didn't just omit the fact that you have to use sealant, they don't tell you anything at all. Its nice to know that I'm not the only one with guts enough to admit that I made a mistake installing Wilwood's "racing" brakes.

[Lucid Moments]

The reason I brought the issue up was that I had the same problem. I didn't know to use it either.

[Twisted-X]

I do appreciate the heads-up Lucid.
I'll post some updates later so Mr. Gropey Avatar can continue pointing out how unprofessional I am.:msmooch:

[Twisted-X]

So, in addition to the previous NPT article (http://www.mechanicsupport.com/articleFittingTight.html) I posted, I also found an interesting list of what to tighten the -3AN fitting (http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/Torque_Spec_Aluminum_Fittings.pdf) (70-105 IN/lbs) to also. If you don't know, the FSM rates the top hardline to flexline fitting at 16 ft/lbs

[talonXracer]

I do appreciate the heads-up Lucid.
I'll post some updates later so Mr. Gropey Avatar can continue pointing out how unprofessional I am.:msmooch:

Not saying unprofessional at all, the point I was trying to make was lost concerning the sealant.

I do admit that Willwood dropped the ball on not including some kind of install directions with the brake lines seeing they included such detailed instructions with the rotors and calipers.

Mr Gropey,,,,LOL,,,,,,I resemble that remark!!!

[Twisted-X]

Alright I'm back with more seeping woes. Now its one of the bottom bleeders. I made sure the bleeder nipple is tight, so I don't think its that. After doing some googling around, on a few forums people mentioned that the outer part of the brass fitting that the bleeders set into sometimes seeps a bit. After looking around the Wilwood site, I see on a few pics of the Dynalite calipers they actually have teflon tape on the outer brass threads (mine didn't come put together this way). Should I take the leaking brass fitting out and wrap it in tape? On another site (http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=706764&page=1) someone states that its possible to use a "dry seal pipe plug", what are your recommendations? I've gone through a hole bottle of Dot 4 on this already...
TIA

[Lucid Moments]

More teflon tape. Simplest, easiest answer. It is what I have done on mine.

[talonXracer]

As Mike said, teflon tape. Be carefull with the tape, make sure it is on the threads of the bleeder only, none should extend below the threads. New bleeder valves have a sealant(more an anti-vibration lock) on them. But even with sealant, the bleeder should seal on the seat in the caliper.

NOW I will AGAIN make another point about race only parts being used for DD and the street. The aluminum bodies of the calipers will expand far more than the steel of the bleeders and other fittings when heated up during use. What happens then is a differential expansion and leaks will eventually develop, race only parts require constant upkeep, overhaul and inspection, usually done between races.

[Twisted-X]

NOW I will AGAIN make another point about race only parts being used for DD and the street. The aluminum bodies of the calipers will expand far more than the steel of the bleeders and other fittings when heated up during use. What happens then is a differential expansion and leaks will eventually develop, race only parts require constant upkeep, overhaul and inspection, usually done between races.

I do appreciate your help and input, but again I'm not sure how you come up with the statement that the dynalite kit is a "race only part". No-where on their site or in their literature is it stated that the dynalite caliper is a race-only caliper. According to Wilwood's own site the Dynalite caliper is a "heavy duty street" but only "medium duty" road race caliper. It doesn't even change the brake balance of the car enough to warrant a brake bias valve. :shrug: If you could explain please?