Rev-match or DIE

[Kibble Fat]

So I had an interesting drive in to work this morning. I pulled off the highway after doing 18 miles or so, and leaving the first stoplight rolling, I couldn't shift into gear. Maybe I was aiming for 1st gear doing 10mph or so, but still! So after I finally got it into gear I start rolling and try downshifting -- clutch pedal down, engine idling. It seems that it won't even shift into gear when the RPMs are too low!

Ok, so the next time it happened was on a left turn across 3 lanes... I could've DIED!!! :tehe:
What is going on here? I HAD to rev-match the last 2 miles of my commute, no clutch by choice. WTF?!?

Could it be related to any of these?
- SRS light on
- CEL on with codes for bad primary 02 sensor (I replaced the secondary over a month ago) and catalytic converter operating below minimum efficiency threshold. I plan to replace primary o2 this weekend and see what happens with the cat code.

I have had zero shifter, clutch, or gearbox problems in the past, all gears can be shifted into easily. No grinds.

Help?

- Eric

[showoff3civic]

I highly doubt that this issue is related to your SRS/CEL light

check your master cylinder to see if there might be a leak
Check your clutch lines to make sure you see no leaks in that
is your clutch slipping? Maybe a bad clutch?
Check your slave cylinder for leaks or maybe its faulty

[Kibble Fat]

A leak would make sense. Clutch is not slipping excessively, but it very well could be the original @ 150k.

[Draw7Seven]

At that mileage I wouldn't be surprised if the CMC had taken a shit on you. Definitely troubleshoot the clutch hydraulics before switching out the clutch.

[Kibble Fat]

I've had this issue with the clutch pedal for quite a while, I just figured the problem was with the pedal assembly not being lubed:

http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/mechanical-problems-technical-chat/153671-06-civic-si-popping-noise-clutch.html

Post #33 in that thread is exactly what was happening to me this morning.


BTW, is this a closed hydraulic system or is there a reservoir with fluid I can top off for the drive home? If so, name that fluid.

[apexracing]

the clutch reservoir is the little one in front of the brake reservoir. just dot 3 or 4 brake fluid is all it takes.

[Kibble Fat]

So I checked my clutch fluid level and its sitting right in the middle of the acceptable range. I think this would rule out a leak.

The ride home was extra interesting, here are some of my observations:

- At a stop, clutch pedal down, I can shift into any gear and the engine will idle without a flinch.
- Using the clutch for first gear is fine. This gets me rolling
- Getting into 2nd gear, the clutch pedal is less useful (maybe 50%?) so some rev-matching is required.
- Any gear above second requires rev-matching, so I may as well not even use the clutch pedal. It does not help.
- The point at which the clutch engages is normal -- about halfway through the pedal's travel. Grab strength is normal.
- Unless I pull the shifter out of gear, the car will engine brake (clutch pedal down) until I get to a speed that's too slow for the engine to stay running. The ECU will struggle to keep it idling until the clutch disengages with a mighty crunch sound! The car has stopped with the shifter still in gear, clutch pedal down, engine idling.

So it seems something must have happened to the clutch's hydraulic system or the clutch itself to make it fall out of adjustment. I inspected the master cylinder and clutch pedal assembly to find nothing out of the ordinary. Are there wear items in the hydraulic system that could cause this (brackets, mounting plates, etc)?

In summary, the clutch wants to stay engaged. What the fu**.

[mitchlikesbikes]

when i read the title i thought this was gonna be another one of those ep3 swag raps hahaha.

hope you get your rig fixed though

[ep3k20]

Sounds similar to a prob I had years ago. The girdle within my clutch shattered and it caused fluctuations within clutch feel as well as clutch function. I am putting my money on that.

[Euro-Yellow-Ep3]

Its the clutch you experienci problems with. It happened ed to me. The reason the engine.e can't keep proper idle is because the clutch is not properly deactivating. Trust me it happened to me a month ago

[Kibble Fat]

I'm gonna take it to a mechanic then. I'd love to DIY it and learn more in the process, but I need the car for work and I'd probably take a week to fix it. A clutch will be a nice upgrade eh?

I'm sure there's a long thread on it already... What clutch do most people run after the stock goes?

[POOPTOOTH]

Clutch is dead.

[Euro-Yellow-Ep3]

Id u want get a stage 1 Or 2 clutch. Don't get nothing crazy because like u said its ur daily

[Draw7Seven]

For a DD get a full disc rather than any puck style clutch, I ran a clutchmasters FX-300 (ask XXX-Racing for the hookup) and really loved it. Had a very stock feel to it but more holding power.

[Kibble Fat]

UPDATE:

I took it to the local mechanic to have the issue properly diagnosed. I was a bit scared for my wallet with his reaction on the phone when I read off my list of observations. It was a problem he'd never heard of before! lol

So I gave him the OK to do a bleed just to see if it was the hydraulics that caused the issue. I got a call back about 10 minutes ago from him saying that the car was functioning just fine after the bleed and I'll have my dad confirm that when he goes to pick it up for me. This leads me to believe that something must've given way at the slave end to throw the system that far out of adjustment. Something mechanical must've given way just a little bit. Is there a clutch control arm that could've slipped relative to the slave cylinder?

This seems like a temporary fix if anything. He did say I would need a new master cylinder soon though. Is the DC5 compatible? My JDM buddy said the older or generic civic master cylinders are differerent from the Si. Something about them being more robust?

:mconfused:

[Draw7Seven]

I DO know that our CMC's suck ass, but I don't know what robust replacements there are. In for an answer on that, if any.

[Kibble Fat]

From what I'm reading its the EM2 CMC that should be used. Can someone confirm?

[usedep3]

From what I'm reading its the EM2 CMC that should be used. Can someone confirm?

yup that's what i have in my ep. been running problem free with the em2 cmc for over a year now

[Kibble Fat]

Would you use the EM2 master AND slave?

I just test drove it and it feels like they didn't push enough fluid into the system. It still need a bit of rev-matching so next weekend I'll try to have a new slave and master ready for swapping. Must order soon!

[apexracing]

Would you use the EM2 master AND slave?

I just test drove it and it feels like they didn't push enough fluid into the system. It still need a bit of rev-matching so next weekend I'll try to have a new slave and master ready for swapping. Must order soon!


Is your clutch pedal droopy? Does it feel like it sticks to the floor and you have to pump it to get pressure? If so its your slave cylinder.
Also do you notice a whining sound when parked and idling? then you push your clutch in and it goes away, but then comes back after you let the pedal out? If so it sounds like your stock clutch puked a spring, this can also make shifts into any gear hard or impossible from what i've read.

[showoff3civic]

I know people running the jdm Brembos are running DC5 CMC maybe you should check into that?

[Kibble Fat]

Put in order in to Majestic Honda late last night. I hope they ship it quick!

I got an EM2 master, EP3 slave, high temp grease, Dot3, and two cabin filters: ~$170 + $20 shipping and handling. If I can successfully DIY this, it will be a lot cheaper than the $650 quoted by the shop :)

FYI, I think the Master was about $90, slave was about $50

[rd02SiR]

It could be that tour clutch disk is toast. Same sorta thing happened to me a few moths ago. I couldent get into any gear. it ended up being a piece of the clutch spring broke off and was preventing full movement.