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View Full Version : Quick question, need an answer.



2003_ep3
10-01-2011, 11:47 AM
All I need is a yes or no, I need an honest answer. All my researching had led to way too many answers.

Do I need rear camber arms to stand my tire back up to zero degrees??? I lowered it last year and have gone through way too many tires and have yet to get an alignment. I'm not sure how much camber I have now but I want it as close to zero to minimize wear.

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jed_averill
10-01-2011, 12:15 PM
I would say yes. When I got an alignment, they couldn't get my camber to the way it should be. It looked liked shit with stock upper camber arms lol. If you're lowered on just springs then you're bound to roll your fenders to get even close to 0 degrees, with the exception that you are not lowered by a lot.

2003_ep3
10-01-2011, 12:35 PM
I would say yes. When I got an alignment, they couldn't get my camber to the way it should be. It looked liked shit with stock upper camber arms lol. If you're lowered on just springs then you're bound to roll your fenders to get even close to 0 degrees, with the exception that you are not lowered by a lot.

lowered on coilovers on 17x7's +36. only lowered to the top of the tire. im not going to that hellaflush crap so if the tire sticks out past the fender thats ok with me. i dont imagine that the the rear camber is much past 1.5, so hopefully they will be able to get it pretty close to zero. cant really afford 4 tires, mounting/balancing, alignment and camber arms:( haha.

jed_averill
10-01-2011, 01:20 PM
I suggest getting the camber kit then, and adjust height to where it won't rub and just get the alignment, some places do toe-only for about $50 but that might be the priciest. Just look around.

2003_ep3
10-01-2011, 03:13 PM
But I guess my question is do I HAVE to have them for the alignment? I plan on getting them eventually just can't afford them now

The local firestone does a full alignment for 80 so I don't think that's too bad

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02TWSI
10-01-2011, 03:29 PM
They won't be able to adjust the rear if you don't have them.

2003_ep3
10-01-2011, 03:37 PM
They won't be able to adjust the rear if you don't have them.

Uuuugggghhhh, not what I wanted to hear:( but thanks for letting me know

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AKEP
10-01-2011, 05:32 PM
Yes you need a camber kit for the rear to get 0* camber

No, you don't need camber to correct your excessive tire wear. you need an alignment to get your TOE straight. Toe eats tires, not so much camber unless you have fucked up toe angle too.

I ran 80,000 miles on 1.5* rear camber and my tires wear was slightly uneven, but not excessive.

you might have to roll your fenders, its not a hellaflush thing, its a hella functional thing. when you crunch an expensive quarter panel or start slicing up your expensive tires, you'll get the idea.

Also, save and get the firestone lifetime alignment if they offer it. i think its $150 for lifetime alignments.

b_ron
10-01-2011, 08:12 PM
really? $150 for lifetime? i always thought it was for a year

2003_ep3
10-01-2011, 09:24 PM
Yes you need a camber kit for the rear to get 0* camber

No, you don't need camber to correct your excessive tire wear. you need an alignment to get your TOE straight. Toe eats tires, not so much camber unless you have fucked up toe angle too.

I ran 80,000 miles on 1.5* rear camber and my tires wear was slightly uneven, but not excessive.

you might have to roll your fenders, its not a hellaflush thing, its a hella functional thing. when you crunch an expensive quarter panel or start slicing up your expensive tires, you'll get the idea.

Also, save and get the firestone lifetime alignment if they offer it. i think its $150 for lifetime alignments.

so they wont even be able to adjust it like .5degrees???:) i just want to get them as close to zero as possible. i just like the look of the tires sticking out past the fenders(maybe its cuz i used to have a mustang and ran really wide tires, lol) but you did bring up a good point, i have seen first hand, while driving, someone just about blow apart a fender flying over some railroad tracks cuz his tires were past his fender and he landed like a flying rally car. lmao. i just dont want to spend another 180$ that i dont have to


really? $150 for lifetime? i always thought it was for a year

150$ lifetime in south carolina. im going to try my best to save up for it. i think its more then worth it

2003_ep3
10-03-2011, 11:27 AM
Well, seeing as how I will need them to get to around 0*, what brand of camber arms would you guys suggest getting??

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jed_averill
10-03-2011, 12:29 PM
SPCs or Ingalls are what most will probably tell you. I got Ingalls myself.

RHCP0801
10-03-2011, 12:34 PM
yea either one, I had SPC

2003_ep3
10-04-2011, 06:28 PM
SPCs or Ingalls are what most will probably tell you. I got Ingalls myself.

you think this is a good deal???

http://www.corsportusa.com/store/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1_17&products_id=274

jed_averill
10-04-2011, 07:33 PM
I remember I bought them from them for $138, but for the past few months, most of their items have gone up in price.

2003_ep3
10-04-2011, 07:53 PM
I remember I bought them from them for $138, but for the past few months, most of their items have gone up in price.

cool, just ordered them. thanks for the help!

jed_averill
10-04-2011, 07:54 PM
Call them tomorrow to process your order ASAP, and after you get a deduction on your account, call them again to get them shipped ASAP. Haha just a tip.

2003_ep3
10-05-2011, 05:03 AM
Call them tomorrow to process your order ASAP, and after you get a deduction on your account, call them again to get them shipped ASAP. Haha just a tip.

Lol, I might give that a try.

Another quick question, I think I may have messed up. I ordered 225/45/17 thinking I had a lot more clearance in the back but I don't. I have close to an inch/inch 1/2 before the tire hits the control arm or whatever the heck the arm that has the largest diameter under there. I'm running 215/45/17 right now with no clue how much camber, I'm guessing close the 2.5 or 3. So do u think I'm going to have bad tire rub with the 225's if I shoot for 0 camber??? I'll try and get some pics up of my current clearance and such

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2003_ep3
10-05-2011, 12:30 PM
http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu23/tlund123/IMAG0049.jpg

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu23/tlund123/IMAG0048.jpg

pictured are 215/45/17. anybody know appx what camber this is???

coming soon are 225/45/17 hankook ventus v12 evok110. and i want to run as close to 0* camber as possible. anybody know if i will rub? i know i will have to raise it up a bit and thats no prob. im just worried about how much i will rub on the bottom inside of the tire, i have around 1" now so it will prob be close. im prob going to have to order some spacers.

jed_averill
10-05-2011, 01:31 PM
Just by looking at it, an adjustment to the camber only will definitely rub. You basically have two options, raise the car or get the fenders rolled.

2003_ep3
10-05-2011, 01:53 PM
Just by looking at it, an adjustment to the camber only will definitely rub. You basically have two options, raise the car or get the fenders rolled.

im going to raise the car....A LOT! lol. i know the tire will stick past the fender, im not worried about that. im just going to have to raise it enough so it wont bottom out into my fender.

my big concern is this.... http://www.ephatch.com/forum/showthread.php?53564-New-Wheel-Tire-Size-thread/page11

in the first post, it shows him rubbing the rear trailing arm. thats what im worried about rubbing against. he said he had +47 offset and mine is +38. i just hope the +38 is enough to clear the trailing arm with the 225 tire with 0* camber

antisocial
10-05-2011, 06:41 PM
ingalls makes a good rear camber kit, i have had mine for several years now. keep in mind that the toe angle is more important for tire wear than camber. I have run -1.5* to -1.75* for 8 years and have zero tire wear issues. 0* camber is not a good idea. you want no less than -.5* to keep the ass end behind you, especially in the wet.

2003_ep3
10-06-2011, 07:07 AM
ingalls makes a good rear camber kit, i have had mine for several years now. keep in mind that the toe angle is more important for tire wear than camber. I have run -1.5* to -1.75* for 8 years and have zero tire wear issues. 0* camber is not a good idea. you want no less than -.5* to keep the ass end behind you, especially in the wet.

Do I need to buy anything to keep the toe in check or can they do it when I get an alignment??

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AKEP
10-06-2011, 08:34 AM
they can do it at the alignment shop. a 225 wide tire vs a 215 tire has a difference of 1cm of width. or half a cm on each side. if you're running +38 and the guy with +47 is rubbing, your rim will be further away from the rear trailing arm by almost 1 cm compared to his. i wouldn't worry about it. im runing some rotas with +47 or something 7" wide, nowhere close to rubbing. idk what size rim you're running tho. i'd only be concerned if it was 8" or more. i still think an 8" rim would clear no prob...

2003_ep3
10-06-2011, 11:12 AM
they can do it at the alignment shop. a 225 wide tire vs a 215 tire has a difference of 1cm of width. or half a cm on each side. if you're running +38 and the guy with +47 is rubbing, your rim will be further away from the rear trailing arm by almost 1 cm compared to his. i wouldn't worry about it. im runing some rotas with +47 or something 7" wide, nowhere close to rubbing. idk what size rim you're running tho. i'd only be concerned if it was 8" or more. i still think an 8" rim would clear no prob...

im running 17x7's. they only problem i see is that i only have about a one inch gap from the bottom inside of my rim to the trailing arm. and thats with gosh knows however much camber im running. so if i shoot for less camber, it is going to bring the bottom of my wheel in more:( i hope i dont need wheel spacers. ugh.

27rocks
10-06-2011, 07:46 PM
17x7 +38 will clear without any issues as far as the trailing arm goes.. I'm on 17x9 +35 and don't rub. Your biggest problem will be the fender it's self. You will need to roll it or pretty much put it back to stock height in order for it to not rub.

Also camber doesn't really bring in the tire/wheel closer to the trailing arm per say. All camber does is tip the top of the tire/wheel further in the wheel well or further out. Toe is what causes the front/back of the tire to pitch in towards or away from the trailing arm. So with that said, since your car is lowered it naturally cambers itself and also toes in slightly. Thats the reason every one is telling you to go get an alignment.

AKEP
10-07-2011, 02:30 AM
yeah, its pivoting on the lower control arm. the upper arm just extends or contracts and the spindle pivots off the bottom arm.

2003_ep3
10-07-2011, 03:12 AM
17x7 +38 will clear without any issues as far as the trailing arm goes.. I'm on 17x9 +35 and don't rub. Your biggest problem will be the fender it's self. You will need to roll it or pretty much put it back to stock height in order for it to not rub.

Also camber doesn't really bring in the tire/wheel closer to the trailing arm per say. All camber does is tip the top of the tire/wheel further in the wheel well or further out. Toe is what causes the front/back of the tire to pitch in towards or away from the trailing arm. So with that said, since your car is lowered it naturally cambers itself and also toes in slightly. Thats the reason every one is telling you to go get an alignment.

Cool. Thanks for all the help guys! Makes me feel a little better. My tires came in today but now I have to wait on my camber arms, I figured they would be here before my tires. Dangit

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2003_ep3
10-07-2011, 02:21 PM
right front tire...
http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu23/tlund123/IMAG0058.jpg


left front tire...
http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu23/tlund123/IMAG0059.jpg


new rubbers!!:)
http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu23/tlund123/IMAG0056.jpg


life savers:)
http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu23/tlund123/IMAG0060.jpg


again...
http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu23/tlund123/IMAG0061.jpg

2003_ep3
10-08-2011, 11:11 AM
heeeeellllllppppppp

just installed my camber arms and adjust the camber to close to zero, and obviously im rubbing like crazy. im going to get it aligned on monday but i would like to get my fenders rolled so i can keep it to as close to zero as possible. does anyone know of any places that rent out fender rollers??? please help asap. thanks for the help in advance

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu23/tlund123/IMAG0066.jpg


im going to raise it up some more till i get it aligned cuz its rubbing every corner and bump i take.

jed_averill
10-08-2011, 11:17 AM
I told you you'd rub. Anyways, do you know how to roll your fenders properly? If not just go to a shop that can do both rear tires for around $50.

2003_ep3
10-08-2011, 12:46 PM
I told you you'd rub. Anyways, do you know how to roll your fenders properly? If not just go to a shop that can do both rear tires for around $50.

Ive been reading up on it. and will definitely keep reading on it. need to find somewhere to rent/buy a heat gun as well. my brother is a ace certified mechanic so he will be able to give me a hand. if not i guess ill call around and see what kind of deals i can get. this is my temp fix for now(see pic), i raised it more then the last pic and added a little(who knows how much) -camber so i will clear the inner fender lip. also raised the front so they will be able to clear the 225/45. only 215/40 on there now

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu23/tlund123/IMAG0067.jpg

not a very good angle but there is def enough camber to give me the clearance i need. when i go to firestone monday im going to get about -0.5cam/0.0toe/0.0caster up front and the same for the rear. hopefully these tires will hold up much longer.

has anyone here run the ventus evo12's before???

27rocks
10-09-2011, 08:49 AM
Ok.. First i would roll your fenders to see where and how much room you will yield when it comes to the alignment. Second i would set the desired height you are going for. Once you set the height and get an alignment thats it. If you lower or raise the car after the alignment you will need ANOTHER alignment because things change when lowering or raising a car. And third and the final step is to get that alignment.

2003_ep3
10-09-2011, 10:31 AM
Ok.. First i would roll your fenders to see where and how much room you will yield when it comes to the alignment. Second i would set the desired height you are going for. Once you set the height and get an alignment thats it. If you lower or raise the car after the alignment you will need ANOTHER alignment because things change when lowering or raising a car. And third and the final step is to get that alignment.

i think im pretty ok with this height surprisingly. its weird seeing it this high, lol. but for some reason it feels more stable. and since the springs are somewhat compressed now compared to when i was lowered(when i was lowered and jacked the car up the springs just sat there and flopped around) and definitely rides a lot better. alignment is tomorrow at 8:30. wish me luck. haha

27rocks
10-09-2011, 03:24 PM
Your spring should never "flop" around no matter what!!! They should always have a little bit of tension on them to the point where you cant really move them otherwise you are just making things worse. Not only that but now you are actually utilizing the actual spring rate and shock. I bet you were probably only bouncing on the spring before with very little strut travel to compensate for bumps.
People forget that both sprig and strut need to work together to fully be functional. They also need to be tuned or paired up together to fully get everything out of them.

2003_ep3
10-09-2011, 03:56 PM
Your spring should never "flop" around no matter what!!! They should always have a little bit of tension on them to the point where you cant really move them otherwise you are just making things worse. Not only that but now you are actually utilizing the actual spring rate and shock. I bet you were probably only bouncing on the spring before with very little strut travel to compensate for bumps.
People forget that both sprig and strut need to work together to fully be functional. They also need to be tuned or paired up together to fully get everything out of them.

I was a dummy and never payed attention to it. They are the d2 racing coilovers. But it definitely rides better and I'm scared to say it almost feels like there is less body roll with it this high...I cant really tell because my tires are showing cord and I'm not going to drive it too hard.

But.....alignment tomorrow and the new rubbers go on. I'm stoked. Getting the lifetime alignment, incase I decide to change something else ill be able to get it realigned for free:) can't beat that. Hopefully these tires hold up good. Next thing on the list is getting these dang fenders rolled

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