ktunded llc swapecu k???

[da9b16]

Anyone heard or using this setup now?? Been looking for a "get me by till I can afford k pro". I will get a link up soon. My tablet is trippin.

[ep3colin]

need a link because i have no idea what your talking about

[da9b16]

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=91731

http://www.k20tuned.com/

http://www.k20tuned.com/xcart/product.php?productid=995&cat=8&page=1

Sorry k20tuned llc..... NOT ktuned

[heyvortek]

seems like its specifially made for a type s 6 speed. so if u got that and dont have kpro then your good. i wouldnt put it on a stock ep3

[da9b16]

seems like its specifially made for a type s 6 speed. so if u got that and dont have kpro then your good. i wouldnt put it on a stock ep3

No no no.... not on a stock ep3 that would be worthless, I have a k24a2 but I hate that Kpro is the only option. Their price point IMHO is entirely too high. The reviews say its working on an k24a2, I am wondering if anyone has used it here or know someone that has?

[heyvortek]

i highly doubt anyone here has or is using it. what ecu are you running now? btw ppl are just gonna say save up for kpro..

[RHCP0801]

it seems from the reading the posts they made that they just give you an ecu for the motor you want with the immobilizer disabled and secondary O2 disabled. Pretty much the same as if you bought kpro and ran a base map. Seems like a waste, if you want to swap in a k24a2 your gonna need a tune to get it to run correctly and to make the most power. Not all motors are the same and every bolt on makes the car act different. Base maps are only there for you to be able to start the car and drive it until you get it tuned.

If you get this it seems like you would waste $330 that you can put towards kpro, trust me...it is worth it in the end to get kpro. Do it right the first time.

[da9b16]

it seems from the reading the posts they made that they just give you an ecu for the motor you want with the immobilizer disabled and secondary O2 disabled. Pretty much the same as if you bought kpro and ran a base map. Seems like a waste, if you want to swap in a k24a2 your gonna need a tune to get it to run correctly and to make the most power. Not all motors are the same and every bolt on makes the car act different. Base maps are only there for you to be able to start the car and drive it until you get it tuned.

If you get this it seems like you would waste $330 that you can put towards kpro, trust me...it is worth it in the end to get kpro. Do it right the first time.

Looks like I will be selling the k24a2 then and possibly the ep3 too. This Kpro shiet is seriously stupid that no one has cracked this ecu for tuning purposes. An 850-1200 price point JUST to run the motor to me is quite dumb. Then you have to add dyno time for tuning at an additional cost of 200-500 for your mods. I mean I understand a good tune cost money, but to fork over a total of 2500+ for just motor swap (no trans) and ecu seems really really dumb. I have been building honda's for over 14 years now and imports for 18. I can't beleive that with all the technology we have and all the genius people involved in the import scene (specifically honda, ie PGMFI, BEN OGLE, Chrome, uberdata etc.) that Hondata is our only viable option or AEM EMS (still at an extremely high price point). This is seriously not good. The K motor has been out over 10 years and it is still in the dark ages as far as tuning options and even driveabilty when swapping between chassis. No wonder there is such a high theft rate for them. I mean the dang ecu is worth a G on the open market. Come on... I am talking with the guy from k20tuned now. I will keep you all posted and hopefully someone will sort this stupid mess out.

On a side note. The TSX operates on drive by wire TB (the reason we dont use the ECU). I am close to sorting out how it works and may test it out on my ep3.... if I dont sell the stupid thing. I almost wish I had kept my wagons now.

[da9b16]

I just got a few emails from Dale at k20tuned who makes these. I will post them up shortly as I get a few more answers.

This is my original email to Dale Clement at k20tuned.

I have been watching your stuff on k20a.org but I have some questions about the ecu and its abilities. Number 1 and foremost…. OMG THANKS for finding a simple alternative to Kpro. Kpro being our ONLY option is seriously ridiculous to me and that no one has cracked this thing other than Hondata. Their price point is absolute insanity and makes me extremely angry about all the aftermarket support and cutting edge technology out there. So seriously THANKS for making this happen. My BIGGEST questions are this: 1. If you can copy the k20a2 map over why cant we do one for the k24a2? 2. I noticed the immobilizer is removed and that it will work on any setup. Does the key light stay on with this? #3 Will it pass obd2 scan for emissions and inspection?

His response:

Thanks for contacting me. Let me clarify the functions of the swapECU.
It is an effective method to get your k-series project driving but not tunable like KPRO. swapECU is already setup for KPRO
board so if you needed to upgrade later you would simply plugin the KPRO board and tune vehicle.

It has immobilizer deleted and sec o2 disabled.
Map loaded is K20A2 and will fine gread on k20A2, K20Z1, K20Z3 and all K24 models.

Also yes Key light will be off on dash and regarding emission testing I can't say 100%

Let me know if you have more questions

Thanks

Dale Clement
K20Tuned LLC
sales@k20tuned.com
954.990.7023


My second email response to him in regards to his answers.

So here is the real question then…. Can you find a way to get it tested for emissions purposes and can you safely say that it will not run lean on my k24a2 with 06 tsx cam upgrades? I mean I don’t wanna fork out the 330 and find out that I cant pass emissions and I am gonna ruin my motor in 3 months because I am running lean.

His second response to me:

Regarding running the k24a2 I have tested personally on my integra and sold to a few customers with tsx swaps.
So I know it will work not problems. However, here in Florida we do not do emission testing so there is no way for me to verify that.

Thanks

Dale Clement
K20Tuned LLC
sales@k20tuned.com
954.990.7023

Another Question I asked him:

Oh yeah and if you can copy a map for k20a2 why not for the k24a2? Seems like you are already copying a map directly to the board or is this not correct?

And his response:

I have done it before. See I get these modified overseas in batches of 12 units per shipment.
These will cost me more so the selling price for custom mapped units will increase by $75.00

Thanks

Dale Clement
K20Tuned LLC
sales@k20tuned.com
954.990.7023

[da9b16]

I was able to find the information on where Dale is sourcing them from. The guy has been on pgmfi.org for a while.

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=71546

http://doctronic.at/Welcome.htm

He goes by screen name doc on pgmfi. This is the person that actually does the ecu's and Dale from K20tuned LLC resells his work at a lower price point.

[RHCP0801]

ok so it is just a basemap

[da9b16]

ok so it is just a basemap

Not to get into a pissing match at all- but it really is a little more than "just a basemap"- it removes the imobilizer, secondary o2 (not sure I like this yet as for obd2 scan inspections not being verified), updates the firmware, and is kpro ready- so I would say would be a decent interim ecu to get your project running until you can afford kpro. I also can see that the abilities are there to do something other than kpro. I know there are a lot of people out there that think that hondata is the only way to go. While I agree that Hondata is amazing and I have personally used their stuff (multiple s100 and s200's). The price point is what I can't agree with at this point in my life. I have a tsx k24a2 in my garage BEGGING me to install it in my ep3. But 800-1000 for an ecu is not a reasonable decision I can make. I have paid less for running cars with AC.

So my only point with this whole thread has been to get some feedback on if anyone here has heard of them. Then to give others an option to get them going with their swaps and maybe not have to pay for kpro or a prb/prc then have another additional cost for immobilizer/ dealership transponder programming. Which also costs more than this ecu option with less programing work done.

Simply put I was shedding some light here or in some cases maybe ruffling some feathers. Which I had no intentions of doing.

[junevtec]

why cant kseries ecu be chipped and socketed like good old p28 p72 p2p ecu from back in the day?

[da9b16]

why cant kseries ecu be chipped and socketed like good old p28 p72 p2p ecu from back in the day?

AMEN- I still do some of that stuff myself here and there. I am thinking to contact doc about his products and see what else he can do.

[Blah1219]

K series are not cheap at all. But I think it's worth it. I would just go k-pro. It solves everything and saves in the long run.

[da9b16]

K series are not cheap at all. But I think it's worth it. I would just go k-pro. It solves everything and saves in the long run.

Well the point is that going kpro for some people is not easy or budget friendly. The purpose here is to get information out there from a reputable person from pgmfi and another company that has an alternative until Kpro is an option. So to some Kpro may be worth it, to others the price of kpro could buy another car (like myself). I don't think your comment about saving in the long run is exactly accurate either. Let's think about this with the comments from the threads of users from k20a. Some said they have been running this ecu and had no problems. Dale from k20tuned ran one in his k24aw swap integra. I am not saying that you should not save up for Kpro so you can get a proper tune for whatever your mods may be. I can also safely say that even based on Hondata's own research there is increases made with mods done before kpro on stock ecu's for k24a2 and k20a2 respectively. Definitely agree 100% k series is not cheap. Check out the research from Tom at Endyne, if you don't know about Endyne well.... go do some research. Saving in the long run would be find an alternative for now that can be used and find a cheaper kpro someone is selling. Or use this swapecu-k since its already prepped for kpro and it can get you moving for now. I think I already covered this but lets do this again.
1. Kpro (totally supplied ecu- not sending yours in) ranges in price from 800 used (cheapest I have EVER seen one) to 1200 new shipped.
2. Kpro- provide your own ecu:
A. send yours in/ find a local dealer (means no car, no driving for a while) 990 from club rsx for just the kpro
B. buy an extra ecu for flashing- prb ususally at price between 250-500 at its highest.
Then you have the whole shipping and handling/ waiting to all of this. 20-40?
The swap ecu is basically converted to the prb and it is at a similar price point as the ecu by itself. 330 shipped for the swapecu-k. To add to this as well there is no immobilzer. To some this would be a negative to some it would be a positive. For me personally. I would never rest on an immobilizer. I will be going with some much more hidden security measures to stop thieves. The point of this also is you dont have to buy an immobilizer bypass or pay to have it reprogrammed etc.

I don't know maybe I am rambling here. I will get it and test it out. I hope to post my findings on the drive by wire tsx throttle body as well. So that we can use a manual (possibly convert the auto tsx ecu now since I know it can be done based on the fact that the auto pnd can be done to 6speed with lockout)

[da9b16]

In case anyone is interested: I received an email from Dale from k20tuned that has these ecu's. He informed me that the price has dropped to 313.00 shipped for the swapecu-k directly from his site.

[Guardian]

This is pointless for ep3/dc5 owner, u can buy a rsxs ecu and have the immobilizer re flashed at the dealer for cheaper.

[AKEP]

This is pointless for ep3/dc5 owner, u can buy a rsxs ecu and have the immobilizer re flashed at the dealer for cheaper.

this.

they come with a k20a2 map, yes, its a base map (an unmolested map, doesn't matter if immo and 2nd o2 is disabled), its parameters, no clue. it might have the closed loop set high into boost and the correction limit changed to something very high also, so it can correct fuel across the map as much as it needs. it sounds like to me the guy that does this has a desoldering station and removed his kpro board, installs and flashes these ecu's and sells them. hence "ready for kpro" - um. theres no prep work for kpro. hondata does it all. theres no lesser fee for a preped ecu. hondata will get their money, as will the dealers. maybe he got his hands on the flash tool that hondata uses.

maybe you don't know this either, kpro is just going to get more expensive. hondata does a lot of work on the kpro daughter board.

its not that its hard to crack the ecu, maybe it is, i wouldn't know. im guessing its the same way anything electronic is programmed though, through a jtag. i've been tempted to get into it but its not really worth my time.

if you don't wanna blow the cash on kpro, ask a hondata dealer if you can get a reflash that will work with the k24a2. but this is starting to get a little silly, you just paid a pretty good amount for a newer honda, with one of the latest, most advanced production engines they have to offer, and you're complaining about a 1g ecu (we all agree its a bit high, even s300 is $600 though). just save up, your about to blow about 1/3(1/2? $350 [for k24a2 map, which hondata even says needs to be checked for a/f] out of ~$800 for a used kpro v1) of your hard earned money on a questionable ecu that doesn't guarantee you anything but being able to start your engine. the dealers on here have some of the best prices online, a real life dealer might beat those prices too.

all i gotta say is that at this point is, you gotta pay to play.

[Onasty]

JUST BUY KPRO... Its pricey but its a necessity

If you got enough money for a swap you got enough for kpro.

[da9b16]

JUST BUY KPRO... Its pricey but its a necessity

If you got enough money for a swap you got enough for kpro.

To this comment- apparently you have not read my posts. I got my k24a2 for doing a swap for someone else. So yeah my time is worth money and I did his swap for him in 12 hrs flat. That being said I did not pay money for my k24a2. And AGAIN- this is about an option to have you running while you get your stock ecu sent out/ until you can save for kpro/ whatever.... I guess this site is stuck on Hondata as king. Which in a free market, is the very reason their price point remains so high and continues to rise is due to NO COMPETITION. When you fail to see what I am saying here then you have already missed the point. So while you all may wish to continue the non sense of not wanting to increase some sort of competition it is the very reason that Hondata is still raping you with no lube and you smile and give it up willingly. I am just not so open minded about the whole scenario and would prefer to find and research/ help develop other alternatives.

Do you all honestly think that the s200/ s300 was the very best available in its day? Should you think this way please go check out pgmfi and get some education about the reasons the "other guys" came into being. Again very reputable names such as neptune, chrome, uberdata, ghettodyne, zdyne, Ben Ogle (who I have known from g2ic.com since 99).... and more. These guys came up with great alternatives for ecu tuning and are still utilized and in some cases are much more economical than hondata with an even better support option.

I am off my soap box now. You guys can lock the thread "due to closed minds"- no reason to post your opinions on something you have not tried or can give witness to on a dyno session/ tune with some real results. I will post my actual results when that time comes and we can all benefit whether bad or good reading and finds. This will be a real ANSWER and we will KNOW then the truth about this ecu option.

Till then.... waiting on parts and researching drive by wire options.

[mitchlikesbikes]

well obviously almost everyone on here feels that they're getting what they pay for with k pro. and you speak of competition with hondata, when really this whole swap ecu is on an entirely lower level. just because you don't want to buy it doesn't mean everyone here should feel like their purchase isn't worth anything or that they're getting ripped off. like everyone else said, you gotta pay to play, and just about everyone on here will probably still be happy with hondata even after this thread.

and any competitors engine management (haltech, AEM, etc) are even MORE money than k pro at this point in time, which is definitely not very competitive.

[Guardian]

Used prb ecu=100-200
Immobilizer reflash Free-80

Tell me how a 300+ ecu that will be doing the EXACT same thing is a better option for u?

For older Honda with kswap yeah, u need immobilizer disabled.

[RHCP0801]

ok just for the record 12 hours to take out an engine and put one in and get it started is not that amazing, I did mine in 12 for the first time which included taking a break in the middle.....so stop repeating that in every post

[02TWSI]

ok just for the record 12 hours to take out an engine and put one in and get it started is not that amazing, I did mine in 12 for the first time which included taking a break in the middle.....so stop repeating that in every post


But....12 hours!!!

[AKEP]

forget all the open source tuning methods you just mentioned. some of them require that the tuner shell out $$$ just to use it (chrome for example) otherwise, you just get to see your fuel table, and good luck "tuning" that shit. at my shop we have cheap asses come in all the time with open source tuning software or half assed ecu mods and expect us to give them the greatest tune for a haggled price on the dyno, afterhours. fuck all that. these are the guys we dont give a fuck about. they come in with janky swaps, vampire taps on everything and electrical tape wrapped up on everything like its gold heat tape. then they haggle us about a godspeed tubro kit, haggle the welding price when the kit comes in with universal bends, and then they have no money for a tune, so they get chrome and expect us to pay $500 our of OUR pocket to tune it. well guess what? the next generation that comes in, will probably have these ecu's, and try to talk us into flashing it for them without sending it to hondata, and then haggle a tune for tits.

seriously, fuck all that. open source can suck a dick. its "ok" software, but its never on point from my experience with it. i hate open source tuning so much, the hype you guys put out on it makes kids think its the greatest thing out there, that they can literally tune anything with it. but when it comes to premade basemaps that just need some tweaking, these kids think its some kind of preset that's on safety mode or something (this is also coming from subaru guys and evo guys, they don't know shit, they just want it tuned [they really think evo scan/cobb tuning is either the greatest thing ever, or complete garbage. really.])

it all comes down to money. anyone knowing anything knows you get what you pay for. in the right cheap ass hands, someone will get away with open source (for free) and will be happy with it. its not for everyone. but this rant has nothing to do with that kswap ecu solution you posted, as its not free. so don't take offence about me knocking it. as much as you want us to get off hondata's dick, you should also back up off open source. been there, done that.

now about that ecu, its sole purpose, to get a k started in a kswap, is great those cheap ass ef/eg/ek/ej/em owners could use it i guess. but for 280-350 dollars. it still does nothing for them when they need to get a tune in the end. they will still have to shell out $1000 for an ecu. or go aem. or something.

its not worth the money for a chassis already equipped with a k series. like you. be patient, save a little more, get kpro. i sent my ecu out Monday, got it back Wednesday. its a sacrifice we have to make sometimes.

now if you're dying to spend that $300 thats burning a hole in your pocket, go ahead. no one here is stopping you. i know you need another ecu so you can drive around a couple days so you can get to work and whatnot (assuming you have some plan for engine management already). what are you going to do after that? how are you going to monitor your a/f? you are aware that once you kill power to the ecu, your fuel trim settings will be erased and you'll have to baby the engine after a power loss? just throwing it out there.