View Full Version : Would it benefit me to have a K24a1 head on k20a3 block for boost?
MattG80
11-09-2011, 02:47 PM
Ok so you guys read the title. I have a buddy of mine selling a k24a1 head for under 100 bucks and I'm wondering if it would benefit me because I plan on boosting at some point. I'm curious about what you guys have to say. Oh and I'd like to be in the 250 to 300 Hp range so if you guys think I should go a completely different route then feel free to post. I've also thought about a complete k24a1 swap and boost so let me know.
scythe88
11-10-2011, 07:45 AM
it does flow better. so i would imagine with boost that it would be a good add on. prolly wont get that much more power, but every little bit counts :)
Blah1219
11-10-2011, 10:04 AM
I would say k24a1 swap. The weak point of the k20a3 and k24a1 are weak thin rods. The k24a1 head would be a nice upgrade with k20a2 valvetrain. It all depends on your budget.
gtolio
11-10-2011, 10:55 AM
Ok so you guys read the title. I have a buddy of mine selling a k24a1 head for under 100 bucks and I'm wondering if it would benefit me because I plan on boosting at some point. I'm curious about what you guys have to say. Oh and I'd like to be in the 250 to 300 Hp range so if you guys think I should go a completely different route then feel free to post. I've also thought about a complete k24a1 swap and boost so let me know.
You can easily make those goals with the right turbo setup on a stock k20a3, FWIW.
If you're thinking about doing something with a K24a1, you're better off doing the full swap. It's not that expensive of a motor (<$1000 depending on miles), you'll make a lot more torque, and you could make that power on low boost or a small turbo. If you wanted to get crazy later, you could make over 500 horse with the right boost setup on that motor.
BlownSi05
11-11-2011, 06:02 AM
You can easily make those goals with the right turbo setup on a stock k20a3, FWIW.
If you're thinking about doing something with a K24a1, you're better off doing the full swap. It's not that expensive of a motor (<$1000 depending on miles), you'll make a lot more torque, and you could make that power on low boost or a small turbo. If you wanted to get crazy later, you could make over 500 horse with the right boost setup on that motor.
I agree, you could make that power range pretty easy with a nice turbo setup on the A3. With a turbo'ed K24A1, you will also have to work on being able to get all the extra torque to the ground. It can be done, just takes a little more work that's all. It is a great cost effective swap that will be a blast to drive.
MattG80
11-18-2011, 07:41 PM
Thanks for all the input guys. I think ill boost the a3 first as is, and then think about the full swap later on then. Im sitting at 110k, miles right now. Anything I should do before kpro and a turbo kit to make sure I don't kill the a3 too early?
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USAF EP3
11-18-2011, 10:57 PM
Remove the valve cover and check for cam galling, then get yourself a feeler gauge and check valve lash. Once that's done, replace timing chain tensioner. You should be good to go after that.
If you need help with any of that Matt, give me a call and we can do it in one of my garages, I got the tools for the work I mentioned above.
MattG80
11-20-2011, 01:58 PM
lol. I'll proly need help with all of it.
Ba82Ep3
11-20-2011, 02:17 PM
A k24a1 head will always be better than a k20a3 head... regardless of the application. If you can get one that cheap... i would hop on it myself. JMO.
lemonhead228
11-20-2011, 07:27 PM
Yea the a3 is garbage. It only uses the intake cam side for vtc and flow isn't all that great.
Deff. Following this thread. I was thinking about doing a small turbo setup on my a3 just for a little more pep with the DD. I need a reliable setup bc this is my ONLY DD and I have a kid on the way so $$ is tight. Any thoughts on making a nice reliable DD setup around the 250-300 range? My car just hit 100k
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if your going to build the head (3lobe swap or vtec killer at the least) then jump on it. otherwise your just wasting time and money on a 2 lobe head/weak motor that can already handle 300hp. 2 lobe flow is still 2 lobe, nothing special going on here.:mrolleyes:
Ba82Ep3
11-24-2011, 01:23 PM
2 lobe flow is still 2 lobe, nothing special going on here.:mrolleyes:
I would agree EXCEPT... k24a1 2 lobe flow is greater than k20a3 2 lobe flow. For $100... thats going to be one of his cheapest $$$ per HP purchases ever... NA or boosted.
----------
So many people are quick to hop on the 3 lobe VTEC bandwagon. VTEC isnt for power... its for economy. The low lobe was brought into the equation... not the big lobe. Honda already knew how to make reliable power, but they needed to retain that power while meeting the ever increasing emission requirements.
If you take that into consideration... it doesnt matter if you use two or three lobe heads for POWER. What matters is the big lobe of choice on your cams... and the size of your head ports. If you add a desire to save $$$ to the equation, then the k24a1 head IS your choice... hands down. Its the best flowing UNMODIFIED head up to 7krpm... and barely falls below the k20a2 head to 8500rpm.
With that said... the k24a1 head WOULD benefit him greatly on a stock bottom end k20a3 block with boost. Period. But at some point, the power hungry Honda loyalists must realize you have to PAY to PLAY. When someone states the k20a3 has a safe limit of 300whp... its not a solid line that cant be challenged or beaten. Its a reasonable guideline that is limited by the inherent design of the engine. You want more... you gotta pay more. If you push the limits without reasonable upgrades... dont hate on the k20a3 and give it a bad name... realize you should have taken proper precautions to make sure you didnt end up with a pile of scrap under your hood. :mwink:
on that note, what are the cam dimensions for the crv? both intake and exhaust vs a3? vs any low speed 3lobe cam?
serious questions.
Ba82Ep3
11-24-2011, 04:22 PM
Why wouldnt they be serious questions?
I have worked with k20a3 cams up to year model 2005 and k24a1 cams up to year model 2004... those are identical. Anything above that i cant vouch for because i havent had hands on experience with them.
The big lobe on two lobe cams is larger than the low lobes on three lobe cams. Even the low lobes on three lobe cams vary in size... meaning one low lobe is smaller than the other low lobe on the same cylinder. So out of VTEC you have one valve open more than the other on the same cylinder.
But im confused as to what this has to do with the k24a1 head and its benefits over the k20a3 head...
it sounded like you were saying the 2 lobe cams in the a1 were bigger by some amount, so i was interested in why we haven't heard of swapping cams with it. i know the low lobes on 3 lobe cams are different not only from one cylinder, but also in different cams, like the z3 and k24a2. night and day.
http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=43261
i doubt the a3/a1 cams are anywhere near as high as the k24a2 primary/secondary. kinda why we jump the wagon for 3lobe. i think even LS integra cams have more lift than the a3 but thats just from eyeballing them around the shop.
another reason i was interested is because somewhere in the future im building a gas sipping k20, need the babiest sized cams i can find. just wanted to make sure the k20a3 still has that low flow. lol
Ba82Ep3
11-24-2011, 10:39 PM
I guess that's my fault too... the discussion was about heads... so when I was talking about the three lobe bandwagon I meant a k20a2 or k20z3 head... not the cams themselves.
Hell im even running k20z3 cams in my k24a1 head because I know the VTEC lobe is a power maker, but im running flipped pin rockers so I have some kinda of fuel economy over a solid rocker VTEC killer setup.
Popeye
11-25-2011, 07:11 AM
Yeah? Well MY flux capacitor is bigger than ya'lls!
Blah1219
11-25-2011, 10:56 AM
if your going to build the head (3lobe swap or vtec killer at the least) then jump on it. otherwise your just wasting time and money on a 2 lobe head/weak motor that can already handle 300hp. 2 lobe flow is still 2 lobe, nothing special going on here.:mrolleyes:
Bahaha I knew this was going to spark some fuses, it just took the matter of time for when it was going to happen.
But I agree with this if you are going to do a head swap and have to retime it and blah blah blah. Then you might as well just pick up a set of exhaust rockers and k20a2 cams and do a vtec killer. It would pretty much help you out alot to reach those goals with a small turbo. and it will set you at base whp of like 195 then the stock k20a3 whp 150.
s'all good. dont want people to waste their time if they dont need/want to. it takes only one noob to see something like this and they go out buying an a1 head thinking its a type r or something. then making a post calling us retards. just wanted clear info out there is all. not saying its not an option, the head flows. just dont expect anything crazy with 2 lobe cams. people do some stupid things sometimes =/
can't you do vtec killer with a second set of intake rockers on the exhaust side of an a1/a3 head??
Blah1219
11-25-2011, 03:42 PM
s'all good. dont want people to waste their time if they dont need/want to. it takes only one noob to see something like this and they go out buying an a1 head thinking its a type r or something. then making a post calling us retards. just wanted clear info out there is all. not saying its not an option, the head flows. just dont expect anything crazy with 2 lobe cams. people do some stupid things sometimes =/
can't you do vtec killer with a second set of intake rockers on the exhaust side of an a1/a3 head??
It would be an extra set of exhaust rockers on the intake side with k20a2 cams. I'll soon to be running this set up.
Ba82Ep3
11-25-2011, 04:34 PM
I think he means the two lobe intake rockers? If so... only on two lobe cams. Which kinda defeats the purpose of VTEC killer.
The two lobe rockers big lobe rocker bearing only rides on like 2/3rds of a three lobe VTEC cam.
Sounds like a recipe for early failure to me...
someone had it pre-2008-epic-fail-crash. they locked the pins and had teh vtech.
Ba82Ep3
11-25-2011, 06:14 PM
Yah I think Onasty did it too. But the two lobe rocker is offset unlike the VTEC lobe on a three lobe cam. I mocked it up cause I have 6 sets of two lobe rockers... but with that much of the rocker bearing off the VTEC lobe... it just looks like trouble waiting to happen.
Blah1219
11-26-2011, 01:54 PM
Yah I think Onasty did it too. But the two lobe rocker is offset unlike the VTEC lobe on a three lobe cam. I mocked it up cause I have 6 sets of two lobe rockers... but with that much of the rocker bearing off the VTEC lobe... it just looks like trouble waiting to happen.
Are you talking about the exhaust rockers on both sides (killer vtec)?? If you are.. It's kinda steering me away from doing a killer vtec head.
Ba82Ep3
11-26-2011, 05:14 PM
No.... the k20a3/k24a1 intake side two lobe rockers. They don't line up with the middle lobe on a three lobe VTEC cam.
The k20a3/k24a1 exhaust rockers do however line up with the middle lobe on a three lobe VTEC cam.
Blah1219
11-26-2011, 05:46 PM
No.... the k20a3/k24a1 intake side two lobe rockers. They don't line up with the middle lobe on a three lobe VTEC cam.
The k20a3/k24a1 exhaust rockers do however line up with the middle lobe on a three lobe VTEC cam.
Alright I understand now. You scared me for a second.
I feel so stupid trying to read this thread and understand what im reading lol. I mean don't get me wrong im not car/motor stupid but i still have alot to learn and this is a big one for me bc I have no experience doing head work other than doing valve adjustments lol I like the challenge of trying to figure out what im reading but I no nothing of the flow of heads and which is better or worse and why that are so.
I no nothing of what cams are better or worse or why. Nore do I know why a bigger lobe is better than a smaller or vice versa. I mean I can kinda understand the concept but past that its beyond me lol
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Ba82Ep3
11-27-2011, 10:23 AM
And that's why were all here... to help each other out! ; )
Blah1219
11-27-2011, 05:46 PM
It's a family thing. People gain knowledge and pass it on or if its a bad day for them, they will just emphasize the word "search". Not any body woke up knowing it all. I stay away from the turbo section.
And that's why were all here... to help each other out! ; )
amen to that.
It's a family thing. People gain knowledge and pass it on or if its a bad day for them, they will just emphasize the word "search". Not any body woke up knowing it all. I stay away from the turbo section.
the turbo section is usually filled with new info and we're always willing to share more info. theres a 101 post for noobs (check sig) and pretty much all the info plus more on mani setups for all sorts of k's including the k20a2/a3 up to k24a1/a2 and budget builds. its my favorite forum, the engine forum is a broken record.
Lol I can see how that is. Iv just mainly been looking for what all I can do to make some nice reliable power out of the a3. Head swaps cams valve train ext. I plan to boost in the future also. Nothing crazy. Around 3 to the wheels
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Blah1219
11-28-2011, 03:21 PM
amen to that.
the turbo section is usually filled with new info and we're always willing to share more info. theres a 101 post for noobs (check sig) and pretty much all the info plus more on mani setups for all sorts of k's including the k20a2/a3 up to k24a1/a2 and budget builds. its my favorite forum, the engine forum is a broken record.
Yeah I've read through the emusa turbo thread, then kinda gave up. I'm more of a supercharger fan, less plumbing and instant power. If I want something fast I would have bought a 1G Eclipse AWD.
Blah1219
11-28-2011, 03:27 PM
Lol I can see how that is. Iv just mainly been looking for what all I can do to make some nice reliable power out of the a3. Head swaps cams valve train ext. I plan to boost in the future also. Nothing crazy. Around 3 to the wheels
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If you want reliable power and 300 at the wheel. Either k20a2 bottom block or a a2/z1 rod/crank combo in the a3 block. I choice to build the k20a3 bottom block due to that you are replacing the piston rings and all the bearing and making sure everything fits at spec. Then buying a used block that who knows what hell that block went through. Now my block will read k20a3 on the stamp, but deep down inside it's a k20z1!
MattG80
11-29-2011, 07:06 PM
Update guys.. I bought the k24a1 head. Couldn't pass it up. Even if I just hold on to it for a while at least I only paid $100. It's so clean too. Wish I knew how to post up pics.
mitchlikesbikes
11-29-2011, 07:58 PM
Update guys.. I bought the k24a1 head. Couldn't pass it up. Even if I just hold on to it for a while at least I only paid $100. It's so clean too. Wish I knew how to post up pics.
you got a hell of a deal man. bolt that bish up to a good k24a1 block and you're 300+ ready alllll day!
Blah1219
11-29-2011, 08:04 PM
i miss my 1g :mfrown:
Sorry to burst your bubble hahah I bet she was a beast.
Update guys.. I bought the k24a1 head. Couldn't pass it up. Even if I just hold on to it for a while at least I only paid $100. It's so clean too. Wish I knew how to post up pics.
I bought my k24a1 head for 100 bucks too!!, but the seller was a dick and didnt know what he was getting hisself into hahahah jk jk that head was a beauty.
Ba82Ep3
11-29-2011, 09:09 PM
I bought my k24a1 head for 100 bucks too!!, but the seller was a dick and didnt know what he was getting hisself into hahahah jk jk that head was a beauty.
:whistle:
lol
MattG80
12-16-2011, 01:05 PM
Another update guys. I just bought some skunk2 stage 2 cams from another member on here BNIB for 230, and a valve cover from some one else for 30 bucks that I just dropped off at the powder coaters. It kinda sucks because right after I sent him the money for the cams Blah1219 was selling some function 7 Lca's for a great price and I missed out on them. But I guess I can't compare the money I saved on the cams to the Lca's. lol. Either way, now I need a stronger valve train. I'm thinking supertech. It's funny how things snowball. Let me know what you guys think.
MattG80
12-17-2011, 10:30 AM
It kinda looks like this is gonna turn into a build thread. Should I ask to have it moved?
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Blah1219
12-17-2011, 03:20 PM
Just go with a seperate member rides build thread!
MattG80
12-17-2011, 04:00 PM
cool cool. Thanks.
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