Turbo question Quest for 315whp?

[1fasthb]

just wondering on what to do and what would be best for power gain's, QUEST FOR 315WHP useing the emusa turbo kit with kpro


k20a3 stage2 crower cam's and rbc manifold?

or

try to do the vtec killer set up with rbc manifold?
dont know alote just started lookin at the vteckiller setups tonight



any thought's?

[heyvortek]

i think either one will be ok. the real question is will the bottom end handle it?!?!

[1fasthb]

i think either one will be ok. the real question is will the bottom end handle it?!?!

yea, i see alote of ppl say not to go over 300 but would the extra 15hp be that bad really? never boost a a3 so beats me, also motor only has 43k miles and i only drive it maybe 5mile a week

[rsxthug]

interesting thread i am also trying to go for 310 ish hp building a turbo kit my self so far i got a sidewinder mani and hopeing to buy the rest by spring

[Popeye]

I have read on here, by several VERY knowledgeable members, NOT to go over 300hp, like you said. I know it may be "easy" to throw on a turbo kit and have more hp, but how long will your motor last? It's worth a little peice of mind to upgrade your rods, at the LEAST. Aftermarket rods are CRAZY expensive for our cars, so I would probably look at k20A2 rods. They are definately stronger than the A3 rods. Sure, it will cost money to have them put in, unless you know how to do it yourself. And sure, your motor has low miles, which is awesome. But low miles aint gonna help you keep a rod from snapping from being under WAY too much pressure.
As far as "vtec killer" set ups, please someone correct me if Im wrong, but to my knowledge, it seems like this would put your added stress on the parts in your head. Sure, it will make more hp. But on oem parts? I would say that would be pushing it.
You can make 300hp on an EMUSA kit all day long, from what I hear. I would probably spend more money on making that kit more reliable than stuff like a vtec killer set up?
Just my $.02

[gtolio]

I don't know where this misconception started, but it absolutely is possible to go over 300whp on an A3 reliably with the right turbo kit. I know because I have been doing it on a bone stock A3 for years now making 322whp.

I think internet blowhards just read things people pull out of their asses and regurgitate it as fact.

:mbiggrin:

[makavelibranded]

I don't know where this misconception started, but it absolutely is possible to go over 300whp on an A3 reliably with the right turbo kit. I know because I have been doing it on a bone stock A3 for years now making 322whp.

I think internet blowhards just read things people pull out of their asses and regurgitate it as fact.

:mbiggrin:

The fact is back in the day when people were pushing the a3 to see how much it could take 300-400 hp just wondering if it could be done most came back with blown motors and years after people saying "oh maybe there just full of it" most came back with blown motors. That is how the word spread around here, not to mention if you compaire the a3 to nearly any other k series bottom end you understand why.

[1fasthb]

I don't know where this misconception started, but it absolutely is possible to go over 300whp on an A3 reliably with the right turbo kit. I know because I have been doing it on a bone stock A3 for years now making 322whp.

I think internet blowhards just read things people pull out of their asses and regurgitate it as fact.

:mbiggrin:

what engine mod's do/did have in your setup?

[gtolio]

The fact is back in the day when people were pushing the a3 to see how much it could take 300-400 hp just wondering if it could be done most came back with blown motors and years after people saying "oh maybe there just full of it" most came back with blown motors. That is how the word spread around here, not to mention if you compaire the a3 to nearly any other k series bottom end you understand why.

I'm not saying those motors aren't better, I'm just saying it can take 300+whp all day long.


what engine mod's do/did have in your setup?

Nothing, zero, it's completely bone stock. Cybernation kit with a 60-1 Turbonetics at around 9lbs.

[heyvortek]

im sure u can run 300+ on an a3 block. as long as you dont drive like an idiot and maintain it well.

[gtolio]

the real question is will the bottom end handle it?!?!
im sure u can run 300+ on an a3 block. as long as you dont drive like an idiot and maintain it well.

:tehe:

[04EP3Hatch]

shit im shooting for 330 if not more and i plan on beating the hell out of it haha i maintain the shit out of it though 0:)

[ginger]

i say, scrap the a3 and go a2 or k24.

[04EP3Hatch]

my tuner has tuned a k20a3 turbo to 380, and its been there for the last two years, im shooting for 340

[gtimportfanatic]

ugh.. u fucker .. i swear im gonna boost again

[AKEP]

i think with the 60-1 its efficient enough not to pump hot ass compressed air, which would make a difference in any setup. the t3/t4 in the emusa kit has a .6x hot side, i think it doesn't flow enough to keep up with my k24 up top, might be the manifold. probably works fine on the a3 though.

one dude on here (loonnngg time ago)said the a3 (bottom) on the dyno made like 460 or something crazy at like 4k and it kept going but popped during the run. pointed it to crankwalk. thats where i first heard of this barrier for a stock block a3. the safe limit is around 300hp. im guessing running premium fuel or e85 would raise that limit, if any. i've also heard of factory freaks, and some people just take much better care of their car.

[sleepy ep3]

60-1 is okay for around 300. Everyone has different experiences. For instance, everyone talks about the A3 rods and bottom end, but my blown motor was a result of valve float. Crappy stock springs + 8k rpms don't work very well. After the motor went, I took a look at the stock rods, and honestly couldn't believe how tiny they were. I was surprised that they could make the 267hp (old setup, mustang dyno) that I made. After looking at that, I decided the k24/k20 build I was planning would be done right. I hope to get some time in the next month to finish it, as I'm looking forward to making a build thread and sharing my experience with ephatch's members. There were a bunch of hiccups along the way, and if people are going to be turboing their ep's, may as well have a good heads up. Props to superchargedk20 for trying to educate the masses.

[gtolio]

i think with the 60-1 its efficient enough not to pump hot ass compressed air, which would make a difference in any setup.

Agreed. I think that has a lot to do with the numbers you can make on them. Plus, if you track your car at all, that will help keep the temps down.


60-1 is okay for around 300. Everyone has different experiences. For instance, everyone talks about the A3 rods and bottom end, but my blown motor was a result of valve float. Crappy stock springs + 8k rpms don't work very well. After the motor went, I took a look at the stock rods, and honestly couldn't believe how tiny they were. I was surprised that they could make the 267hp (old setup, mustang dyno) that I made. After looking at that, I decided the k24/k20 build I was planning would be done right. I hope to get some time in the next month to finish it, as I'm looking forward to making a build thread and sharing my experience with ephatch's members. There were a bunch of hiccups along the way, and if people are going to be turboing their ep's, may as well have a good heads up. Props to superchargedk20 for trying to educate the masses.

I wouldn't run an A3 much past 7500. It just can't handle it from top to bottom. I had a friend that was going to 8k on a JRSC-R A3 with a good tune and he spun a bearing. Mine is at 7600 and I wouldn't go any further without beefing it up.

Honestly, I'm not sure there's that much power to be had up there on that motor anyways.

[USAF EP3]

Hmm, I don't understand the issue really. How can K20A3 rods be THAT bad? IF you tune it just right and have GOOD supporting mods (i.e. AKEP said, having a turbo with good volumetric efficiency) the engine should do just great.

I remember when old school Honda guys build D16Z6 heads on stock D16Y8 or Z6 bottom ends pushing over 350whp. And if anyone has seen the stock thickness of D16 rods...well let's just say it's laughable.

[Ba82Ep3]

300 is the assumed 'safe point'... doesnt mean it cant be pushed or beaten.

Theres a lot to be said for tuning. Ignition advance plays a huge role with a boosted setup. Too much ignition advance under load is a surefire way to snap a rod...

[USAF EP3]

300 is the assumed 'safe point'... doesnt mean it cant be pushed or beaten.

Theres a lot to be said for tuning. Ignition advance plays a huge role with a boosted setup. Too much ignition advance under load is a surefire way to snap a rod...

Yes, you're correct Dave. Also, take into consideration that with a boosted setup you're altering the VE of the stock engine. So the timing and load tables all need to be reconfigured for whatever setup has been installed. Simply bolting on a kit and looking for the stoich/rich AFR's at/near redline isn't going to necessarily give birth to a "safe tune".

Everything needs to be accounted for once the engine has been re-purposed from its original designer's intentions.

[AKEP]

couldn't have said it better. ve is theoretically the same [its a constant (given you even know what it is with new manifolds)] just the end result is multiplied by bar. 0 (atmosphere) bar @ 360cfm is still 720cfm @ 1 bar (2x atmosphere). which i kind of blew up on, on another thread. lol.

[USAF EP3]

couldn't have said it better. ve is theoretically the same [its a constant (given you even know what it is with new manifolds)] just the end result is multiplied by bar. 0 (atmosphere) bar @ 360cfm is still 720cfm @ 1 bar (2x atmosphere). which i kind of blew up on, on another thread. lol.

But of course, I only learned from the best! :hay: