Rod bearings need some insight

[Blah1219]

So right now I'm in the neighbor hood of rebuilding a engine. Soo I'm looking at rod/ main/ thrust bearing and I see green, red, yellow, pink, etc. I don't know the difference, so my question would be what am I looking for?

I have K20Z1 pistons, rods, and crank.

Would any of ya'll recommend ACL race or clevite bearings?

[Ba82Ep3]

OEM Honda bearings... more size options.

There is only one way to accurately do this. Grab a pen and pad and document each measurement you make. People say go off the numbers/letters stamped on either the crank block or rod... but after machine shop work only your accurate measurements will suffice.

Easiest to start off with is a rod bearing. This will be generalized so dont hold any numerical values as important.

Start with what you know. You can measure the inner bore of rod #1 (big end) and the size of the rod journal on the crank. The difference between the two is your rod bearing size, AND your oil clearance COMBINED. If your oil clearance for that rod bearing is supposed to be 0.0013" or 0.033mm... then that number subtracted from the combined rod bearing size and oil clearance value, is your desired bearing size.

"But Honda only does color values on their freekin bearings!" you say. Gimme a few and ill be back with a numerical chart that converts the colors to sizes.

BRB

[Ba82Ep3]

*Applicable to B and K*

Main Bearing thickness by color...

Blue 2.013-2.010 mm 0.0793”- 0.0791”
Black 2.010-2.007 mm 0.0791”- 0.0790”
Brown 2.007-2.004 mm 0.0790”- 0.0789”
Green 2.004-2.001 mm 0.0789”- 0.0788”
Yellow 2.001-1.998 mm 0.0788”- 0.0787”
Pink 1.998-1.995 mm 0.0787”- 0.0785"
Red 1.995-1.992 mm 0.0785”- 0.0783”

Rod Bearing thickness by color...

Blue 1.510-1.507 mm 0.0594”- 0.0593”
Black 1.507-1.504 mm 0.0593”- 0.0592”
Brown 1.504-1.501 mm 0.0592”- 0.0591”
Green 1.501-1.498 mm 0.0591”- 0.0590”
Yellow 1.498-1.495 mm 0.0590”- 0.0589”
Pink 1.495-1.492 mm 0.0589”- 0.0587”
Red 1.492-1.489 mm 0.0587”- 0.0586”

:thumbu:

[K20A EP3]

Dave your like Kazam of Hondas!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Good info should DEF be STICKIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!

[bchaney]

Ba82's method is great and is prob the best way to do it. I will add that you should still double check bearing clearances w plastigauge before final assembly tho.

In my experience, using the numbers on the crank and rods (and the table in the helms) worked out fine.

[Blah1219]

Wow.. Now I have homework when the parts come back. -_-

[Ba82Ep3]

The advantage of plastigauge (and i use the word advantage loosely here), is it will show you journal taper. The instructions even tell you to measure the widest part of the crushed strip. The thinner the strip, the greater the oil clearance numerical value will be... and vice versa.

Using micrometer measurements involves more math, time, and patience. Its advantage is accuracy, and knowing up front what bearings you need when it comes time to order them (not buying them, fitting them with plasti and finding out the oil clearance is wrong).

The weaknesses and strengths of each method are amplified by the parts they are used on. Unmachined parts can be a mathematical nightmare, and plastigauge can be the easy way out.

If you are using engine parts that have been to a machine shop for work, you cannot count on the codes for proper bearing clearance. Even if the crank has just been micropolished, you really should check your oil clearances. Any material removed from a crank journal (rod or main) increases journal oil clearance.

Now i know i may have just made this sound very difficult. It isnt. You CAN use plastigauge and it work out just fine. Just know that there IS a more accurate way (notice i didnt say better way) to build a bottom end.

[Ba82Ep3]

Dave your like Kazam of Hondas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chris, im tryna hide my nerdiness here. lol

[Blah1219]

Well I'll see if I can get ahold of some plastigauges if not I'll end up using a micrometer. I'm decent with math and plenty of time on my hands right now. Is there a certain oil clearance I will be putting in the equation? I'm most likely going to use 5-30w or 10-30w.

[Ba82Ep3]

Last time i checked you could get Plastigauge at Advance Auto. Its in the back near their engine parts (bearing kits and oil pumps), you just have to ask for it.

For you since youre basically building a k20a2/z1... use the clearances in the PDF manual. It lists both the k20a3 and the k20a2 clearances, so be sure to use the right ones. Generally speaking, engines that rev higher have looser tolerances. Tighter tolerances take longer to break in and once they are, last longer on a reasonably revved build.

When i say tight or loose, the manual shows a range that is acceptable. Lets say 0.033mm (tight) through 0.061mm (loose) for rod bearing oil clearance, with 0.072mm as a service limit. If you are using the largest rod bearings possible and your measured oil clearance is 0.075mm... then your crank is done. That is what the service limit means.

Oil weight DOES apply here... but doesnt become a crucial variable unless youre building an all out race engine. In my experience, if you plan on using a lighter oil, go a little on the tight side for your ring clearances. Vice versa for heavier oil.

[Ba82Ep3]

Oh... and if your block bore size is 86mm for Honda's "B" sized piston, go ahead and save yourself some headache and buy the OE overbore ringset, a ring filer off of Summit, and spend the time with your feeler gauges to get it right.

:thumbu:

[Blah1219]

I'm going to check the clearance on these k20z1 pistons that came with the pistons and see if they fit in spec clearance. But with the bearings, it will be a joyride..

Just so everyone knows. I'm just another 23 year old doing my own rebuild with very little time on building with my hands. I've done only a few automatic transmissions in the military and replacing easy bolt on shit around the engine. If you have the correct resources and knowledge and some time on your hands. You can do this yourself.

I'll be asking more questions when I get everything back from the shop which should be this week.

[AKEP]

Dave your like Kazam of Hondas!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Good info should DEF be STICKIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!

I second this motion.

[Tnhatch03]

I got to this part in researching when deciding to build my motor myself. I soon realized it was much more work and I did not want to attempt this, with the amount of work I was doing to my motor.

So I paid someone else to build the bottom end. ahaha...

[bchaney]

I got to this part in researching when deciding to build my motor myself. I soon realized it was much more work and I did not want to attempt this, with the amount of work I was doing to my motor.

So I paid someone else to build the bottom end. ahaha...

Its not rly that bad. If you follow the directions in the helms religiously, you will be fine. Like I said earlier, ba82 is describing the thorough/in-depth way to do it but if your crank/rods/block didn't need to be machined just follow the manual and you're good to go.

I'm not trying to discourage anyone from being thorough, just saying if it seems to complicated you can follow the manual and it'll walk you thru everything.

[Ba82Ep3]

I got to this part in researching when deciding to build my motor myself. I soon realized it was much more work and I did not want to attempt this, with the amount of work I was doing to my motor.

So I paid someone else to build the bottom end. ahaha...

LOL Its not that bad really.

I wanted to pass on that the 2.0 in my EJ used yellow and green rod bearings (all 4), and the crank needed black brown and green to make clearance. Crank journals 1,2,4,5 can have the same oil clearance, but journal 3 needs to be a little looser. This will prolly be the last time i can use this crank... but it had plenty of life left on it and i just hated the idea of tossing it in the can.

Again, its all in the PDF manual and its really like assembling a model. You put it together in sectioned groups, assemble those groups, and bam you have an engine. lol

[Blah1219]

I just got my block back just now. Yes they did micropolish the crank with a head valve job and head resurfacing. Getting myself pumped up. I have all the tools and resources in front of me. I'm ready to get in knees deep into this build.

I've noticed there was a member on here with the PDF on his signature, but I forgot this guys name. I need to source that.

Also, where would be the best place to look for honda bearings? I was going to go through ClubRSX, but I could probably save some pennies going through someone else.

[AKEP]

google shopping

[Ba82Ep3]

Mugen Replica has the PDF in his sig. I have them but they are too big to email. I dont know how he added them in his sig. I guess its a mod thing.

I got all of my OE parts through either my local Honda dealer (they put me on for shop discount because i was buying in volume) or through www.bernardiparts.com. Might be worth a trip to your local dealer to form a relationship with them. Not to mention if you DO have a problem and need to return the parts... you have someone you can deal with face to face instead of some dude in China with a "Problem Resolution Service". JMO though.

[bchaney]

I used hondapartsunlimited.com for my build cause they sell both Honda and Acura parts.

[Ba82Ep3]

Do they? Bernardi does too... but you cant combine tickets when you buy. You have a Honda ticket and an Acura ticket. Is Unlimited like that?