sway, sway bars

[Blah1219]

So I'm really about to decide to put the em2 front sway on and either a type r or tanabe rear away. Ive read read that its a nice ride with a stiffer rear away and softer front sway. I would like to know what yall think of that. Also anyone have experience with both of those rear sways?

[civictype_r04]

I would like to know also.

[jared07]

wheres mustclime when you need him?? Im in on this too.

[whatsvtec]

wheres mustclime when you need him?? Im in on this too.

Clubep3...lol

Sent through space and time

[civictype_r04]

Clubep3...lol

Sent through space and time

Haha

[makavelibranded]

IDK exactly how the em1 front sway will do as I skipped directly to removing my front sway for more turn traction lol BUT I have the buddy club RSD's and the spring rate compensates for the lack of sway bar. My setup is no front sway/ type-r rear sway and the RSD's and this setup definatly flipped my ep3's balance from an understeer hog, to oversteer heaven, even for it just being a fwd I get plenty of oversteer which at 1st when I was autocrossing really through me off and I then understood why some of the ep people that actually go out and race there cars stressed about the change in characteristic of the car.

[Blah1219]

Thanks for the input. That's one of the coilovers that I have been thinking about. I know there's more autocross eper's out there with some insight on this topic.

[powdbyrice]

wheres mustclime when you need him?? Im in on this too.


Clubep3...lol

Sent through space and time

troof. he's been gone for everrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

you're looking for zzyzx...

[makavelibranded]

Thanks for the input. That's one of the coilovers that I have been thinking about. I know there's more autocross eper's out there with some insight on this topic.



Are you only planning on Autocrossing?

Also I got my set from moon for a good price he also threw in a buddy club pillow.

[Blah1219]

Are you only planning on Autocrossing?

Also I got my set from moon for a good price he also threw in a buddy club pillow.

It will be a daily till I get a crx. Right now she's getting a engine rebuild.

[Drew1d]

I'll give it a shot.

I bought the car new. (Stock setup)
Stock it handles ok. Summer tires were nice, but it does give understeer at the limit. Especially in the snow. (Always check tires)

Next I bought my 22mm sway.
Probably the best suspension investment I ever made. It made the car feel sportier, at extremes, depending on how your driving I could get a little oversteer, but mostly, even in the snow, I'd still get understeer. (this time with all season tires)

After a variety of springs and alignments, I went back to stock. Springs and alignment effected the under/over steer of the car more than the bar. And my theory is, a sway bar works by pulling down the other side of the car in a turn. So when making a right, the car leans left. The spring on the left is compressed, it travels through the bar and pulls down the springs on the right side...to a point. Once pulling it down exceeds the stiffness of the sway bar, the bar bends and gives a little.

So at one point, I removed my front sway completely, and had the stock rear sway back on. It really like that setup. With a stock alignment, and on all season or snows, the car felt grippy (well, as grippy as it was going to get) and just had a little bit of understeer, or oversteer depending how you drove.

Then I said, well, let's see what the 22mm bar would do with no front sway. It should fishtail at every turn, right? Nope, to be honest, it wasn't much of a difference. The stock springs are soft, so even with the stock bar it really did pull down the other side, and bar probably doesn't bend much or at all.

So my advice would be, 1st determine what you want. For me, on my street car, a little understeer.
Second, what tires and springs are you using?
And third how big of a bar do you need really need to accomplish what you want?

I'm not going to say that the sway bar will make the car handle better, but I will say it makes it more fun to drive. And isn't that what it's all about?

Just some points of order. Realize that you'll have to disassemble the exhaust to a degree to change the front sway. This will wreck some gaskets, as well as needing new bolts possibly hangers etc... Secondly, endlinks are much easier to cut through and replace rather than reuse. Perhaps if it's in a dry climate, or no road salt has touched the car you could get them off. For me, I rarely can reuse them. Also, with a little looking, you can find poly bushings and this does make some difference on the responsiveness. Good Luck.

[Zzyzx]

As Drew1d said, 1st determine what you want. So whats the car being prepped for?


Other things to take under consideration is that there is a difference between the total amount of grip the car has and its handling balance. They are often influenced by the same parts, but you can tweak one with out messing up the other if you know what you are getting in to. So, figure out what aspect of the cars handling you are trying to improve/alter. as in, are you looking for more grip or are you looking to tweak the cars handling balance?

[maksym]

I know it might not be the thread to do this, but I was wondering if you would, Zzyzx, post a few pictures of how your car looks with pro kit drop from the side with your wheel/tire set up, and the bottom of the rear with sway bar view and so on you got going on in the rear? Would be greatly appreciated!
Sorry for the post in here, but this was, I think, the last thread you posted in. Thinking you might come back here to view what is going on in here with the replies.
And again, thank you.

As Drew1d said, 1st determine what you want. So whats the car being prepped for?


Other things to take under consideration is that there is a difference between the total amount of grip the car has and its handling balance. They are often influenced by the same parts, but you can tweak one with out messing up the other if you know what you are getting in to. So, figure out what aspect of the cars handling you are trying to improve/alter. as in, are you looking for more grip or are you looking to tweak the cars handling balance?

[iDom]

I plan to do an engine swap soon (Spring time) and I think I will have to get an EM2 front sway, if I want a sway.. So, everything I have read here, sounds like no front sway is the best thing to do. So, should I not be worried? I wouldn't mind doing an AutoX day or something as well.. If no front sway helps for grip, why doesn't everybody just take them off?

I have the A-Spec suspension.. Think the stock rear sway and no front sway and some 16x8 RPF1's and some good 225 tires would be good?

[makavelibranded]

It only adds grip on turning, as you turn you get upforce with sways, but you still have to have sufficient springs rates to compensate otherwise you should get a good amount of body roll.

[iDom]

How would the RSX A-Spec handle up with that you think?

This is what I've found:
Stock EP3: Spring Rate: (248 Front/440 Rear)
Stock RSX: Spring Rate: (279 Front/458 Rear)

Of course, the aftermarket A-Spec RSX suspension will be stiffer than stock. Maybe low 300's? I can't find the specs for the RSX A-Spec suspension anywhere..

[makavelibranded]

Well heres this for spring rate in case anybody asks
http://forums.clubep3.com/showthread.php?t=684339

Idk if I had the aspec Id 1st try it with an smaller sway and feel it out at autocross, and casual driving then depending on how it felt switch to no bar. Remember theres compromise, sways allow your ride comfort to be smoother feeling, & adding higher spring rates is going to make the car feel stiff over every bump. I personally dont care imo function over anything and it doesint bother me the least, I love it, it drivings great and perfect to how I want it but that doesint mean others will like it. Its hard to say 100% without seeing the rates, you could try asking mustclimb he may know over there, but in the end itll matter to you how you want the car to feel when driving it.

Also a non stock alignment would also help on turning as well. After I got grippy tires(also great in the rain remember this for DD), alignment, my sways, and coilovers figured out the ep came alive with very little understeer. Why I mention that about the tires is I compromised a little dry performance for wet performance considering I DD my car, people here are fucking retarded, so in wet weather the car still performs great.

One last thing, as you make your car more overteered out, add alignment and whatnot else that adds to make the car want to turn. At high speeds it really make a Honda unsafe without any downforce lol. Im sure theoretically you throw in a good amount of downforce front and back and youd have a great all around car. Im just saying that since most people on here that "race" are highway street racers, my car is setup for turning not going fast in straight lines, after doing a few pulls after I had all the work done it I realize it doesint like it and thats fine with me since I try my best to compose myself driving around town.

[Hasbro]

Op, there are a few different methodologies you can use to set your suspension up for handling. It can be very confusing and it's pretty easy to screw it up. Two identically set up cars can be entirely different just from their using different tires. Or the same car will handle differently with two different drivers. It's science and black art combined. I'd suggest a little research. The easiest way to learn would be to read up on comments by Zzyzx. He asks the right questions first and makes it easier to figure out what to do.

[iDom]

Hmm.. I'll try and figure out the spring rates. I'd imagine it's decently stiff. My car has a much harsher ride even with the stock 60 series tire than my friends with TEIN coilovers and 40 series BFG GForce tires. It could all be in my head too, I guess.

I literally looked for over an hour last night trying to find the spring rates of the A-Spec kit with no luck..

Oh yea, what tires are you running makavelibranded? The ones you suggested were good in wet/dry conditions. I was thinking about getting some Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec's

[makavelibranded]

I have BFG KDW 2's, I was going to get the Star Specs but they didint have them so I went with these. Im kind of glad I did not get them, although from reviews they are the best thing on the market right now, they wear very fast & throwing a couple sessions of autocross is and theyd have been chewed up by now. I havnt rotated mine, and after 5 autocrosses and nearly 2 years of DD my fronts are almost done. Ive also driven in the snow/ice on these and they were fine, minus the ice parts but without studded tires you cant really do much on it lol.

[makavelibranded]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7495968@N02/5069026634/in/set-72157625915838218

Heres a autocross, this was right after I got the alignment, and coilovers. The jetta you see on slicks usually beats me by 1-2 sec's on that day he was on streets I would have beaten him by 3.5ish, but I hit the cone so it took 2 sec off. Also I beat 2 subies and a datsun in SM (im in SMF its basicly SM for FWD cars)

[o2ep3]

I am running the em front bar and a dc5 rear. with tein ss coilovers and front and rear camber kit with bushings. it makes the car feel so much more responsive in the turns. i auto x for many years the car is supper fun and pretty competetive in dsp with the club i ran with. im sure the hoosiers made a big differance to lol. if jjr007 is still on here he had run with me for a few years and i believe he has some footage of both are cars.

[RhINoX^]

I am going to put an order on EM2 sway bar. Is that the right part # 51300-s5d-a02 , bushings # 51306-s5d-801?
Do I need new brackets as well or can reuse stock ep3 ? Thanks!

[makavelibranded]

just go to a local wreck yard and pull one off a car there for 20 bucks

[RhINoX^]

^ Thanks. It`s a good idea,but I don`t have free time on my hands. Bought it for $45 shipped with bushings... brackets are same for EX and SI !

[Slip_Angle]

I've been autoX'ing my car for 10 years. My experience having tried all sorts of sway bars, tires, springs etc... is that the softer the suspension and tires, the larger the front sway bar is faster. With my current setup I run the Hotchkis Competition Set. 25.4mm front sway (stiff setting) and 27mm rear sway (stiff setting) with HFP suspension. Fastest setup so far for me...

[nolij869]

Im picking up a dc5 21mm sway the em2 front is next...Does anyone know if the brackets are the same size on our cars (ep/dc5 rear sway)?

[Zzyzx]

I've been autoX'ing my car for 10 years. My experience having tried all sorts of sway bars, tires, springs etc... is that the softer the suspension and tires, the larger the front sway bar is faster. With my current setup I run the Hotchkis Competition Set. 25.4mm front sway (stiff setting) and 27mm rear sway (stiff setting) with HFP suspension. Fastest setup so far for me...


The bolded section would be the prime reason why you are seeing faster times with stiffer anti-roll bars. And honestly your setup would be quite fun for a dual purpose car. Reasonable on the street and track given street tires.

[RhINoX^]

@nolij869 Bushings are different,brackets are same.

[Slip_Angle]

The bolded section would be the prime reason why you are seeing faster times with stiffer anti-roll bars. And honestly your setup would be quite fun for a dual purpose car. Reasonable on the street and track given street tires.

Agree 100%.