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View Full Version : DIY: CTR non-projector head light rewire



BigE19
01-21-2012, 12:42 PM
So i purchased a bunch of CTR goodies..

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/390771_10150465500062804_500382803_9012350_1474826 485_n.jpg

I googled and found DA9_GSR's write up DIY.

If you have a 2002 or 2003 EP3 follow this:

- add a second power wire (it's red/yel on the left headlight harness and solid red on the right headlight harness)
- this will give you two power wires
- one of those power wires goes to the igniter
- the other power wire goes to the red wire sticking out of the JDM headlight housing (it goes to the HI/LO solenoid)
- then all you're left with is the two ground wires (one wire is red/blu and the other is black on both headlight harnesses)
- the igniters get grounded to the front bumper beam (left igniter to left bumper beam G301 and right igniter to right bumper beam G201)
- finally the black wire coming out of the JDM headlights gets spliced to the red/blu wire in both the OEM left and right headlight harnesses

Then you have to replace the headlight fuses to 20A instead of the 15A OEM ones. Don't worry, the OEM wires are capable of holding 20A. This circuit is only rated at less than 9A running.

But perform this at your own risk. I'm not liable for any mistakes on your end.

Cheers.




I was about to begin when noticing some of the wires, and i was unsure about the locations

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/397909_10150504100392804_500382803_9159891_1734062 882_n.jpg

so that is the jdm headlight with factory ballast.

so out of the bottom of the headlight housing you have a red power and a red /blue wire. On the ballast just a red and black.

now looking at the 9003 plug you have three wires

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/396130_10150504099577804_500382803_9159889_4080607 67_n.jpg

As you can see a red/yellow wire, solid red, and a red black wire. This is passenger side.

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/402374_10150504098012804_500382803_9159886_1295336 173_n.jpg Driver side you have red/yellow, red/yellow, red/blue wire.

nmysiismyn
01-21-2012, 01:47 PM
Man, that engine bay needs a bath! :meek:

I'm confused.. My pre-facelift JDM headlights don't have a ballast. :mrolleyes:

DA9_GSR
01-21-2012, 10:39 PM
I'm confused.. My pre-facelift JDM headlights don't have a ballast. :mrolleyes:


You got screwed dude. Honda calls their ballasts "igniters".

nmysiismyn
01-21-2012, 11:09 PM
You got screwed dude. Honda calls their ballasts "igniters".

I still love 'em, but I'm curious.. So, they're HID-ready?
That's hard to believe when they don't come with the round, glass, bulb cover thingamajiggy and/or the leveling system to provide that clean cutoff found on legit HID headlights... :shrug:

Passenger
01-21-2012, 11:13 PM
I still love 'em, but I'm curious.. So, they're HID-ready?
That's hard to believe when they don't come with the projector lense and/or the leveling system to provide that clean cutoff found on legit HID headlights... :shrug:

fixed

nmysiismyn
01-21-2012, 11:14 PM
fixed

:hug:

Passenger
01-21-2012, 11:16 PM
:hug:

:love:

Red_liner740
01-22-2012, 10:18 AM
not all HID systems are projector beam based. For instance my dads Volvo S60 is HID but no projector. 02/03 Maximas are HID but no projector...

With that being said, how is the JDM headlight housing any different than North American other than the ballasts?

BigE19
01-22-2012, 10:33 AM
no different in the housing just using oem hids. Better then aftermarket. im just confused on what to do with the spare red.yellow wire on each 9003 wire harness. DA9 said that both sides are red.blue but mine is red.black on drivers side.

Draw7Seven
01-22-2012, 11:04 AM
So your ballast connection, as stated already, is pos/neg wires to turn the bulbs on and off using the ballast/igniter combo (in my world, a ballast and an igniter are not the same thing, but that's neither here nor there).

The one below is the pos/neg connection for the Hi vs Lo solenoid. My assumption is that from your stock harness, if you splice the positive lo beam to your positive ballast, positive high beam to your positive hi/lo solenoid, and ground out the remaining two wires on each headlight (as we can assume they are grounds), then when you turn on your lights you'll get your lows, and when you turn on your highs your solenoid will do the work based on getting a signal from the hi positive line. In my head this makes sense.

I'll also note that while the wires can be any color in the world on those pigtails you have connected to the solenoids, it should be noticed that closer to where that loom heads into the housing itself I see a gap next to the grommet in your picture. Through that gap I see a red wire and a black wire, which is a definite clue for red positive black negative. If you pull that loom off or pinch with your fingers to trace the black and red wires up to the pigtail connection, you can be much more certain of which solenoid wire on your pigtail should be charged and which should be grounded, no matter if they're purple, green, or polka dotted. From personal experience people hack up any harness they can find to put together a plug and play setup for these lights, so your colors are understandably not the same as DA9's.

http://www.mypage.tsn.cc/roddqld/socket_wiring_diagram.jpg

So on each side my suggestion is run your low to your ballast pos, your high to your solenoid pos, and your grounds either into the ground on the H4 (9003) plug or any chassis ground.

But this is based more on what should work rather than an understanding of how exactly the hi/lo solenoid operates. I've only run 02/03 halogens and facelift CTR HID's (so I had an entirely different bulb for highs).

Draw7Seven
01-22-2012, 11:07 AM
not all HID systems are projector beam based. For instance my dads Volvo S60 is HID but no projector. 02/03 Maximas are HID but no projector...

With that being said, how is the JDM headlight housing any different than North American other than the ballasts?

qft

Answer: the JDM housing has a more "gunmetal" finish than the silvery USDM halogens. Other than that, obviously they're designed to take an HID setup (as it was an option for them) whereas the USDM housing needs to serve no other function than to house a standard halogen H4 (thanks American Honda, we love you too).

nmysiismyn
01-22-2012, 11:29 AM
not all HID systems are projector beam based. For instance my dads Volvo S60 is HID but no projector. 02/03 Maximas are HID but no projector...

With that being said, how is the JDM headlight housing any different than North American other than the ballasts?

Until now, the only difference's that I've been aware of is that they have a dark chrome housing and they're designed to aim a bit up-left to light the street signs, whereas ours are just chrome housings and aim a bit up-right to light street signs.

BigE19
01-22-2012, 04:04 PM
So your ballast connection, as stated already, is pos/neg wires to turn the bulbs on and off using the ballast/igniter combo (in my world, a ballast and an igniter are not the same thing, but that's neither here nor there).

The one below is the pos/neg connection for the Hi vs Lo solenoid. My assumption is that from your stock harness, if you splice the positive lo beam to your positive ballast, positive high beam to your positive hi/lo solenoid, and ground out the remaining two wires on each headlight (as we can assume they are grounds), then when you turn on your lights you'll get your lows, and when you turn on your highs your solenoid will do the work based on getting a signal from the hi positive line. In my head this makes sense.

I'll also note that while the wires can be any color in the world on those pigtails you have connected to the solenoids, it should be noticed that closer to where that loom heads into the housing itself I see a gap next to the grommet in your picture. Through that gap I see a red wire and a black wire, which is a definite clue for red positive black negative. If you pull that loom off or pinch with your fingers to trace the black and red wires up to the pigtail connection, you can be much more certain of which solenoid wire on your pigtail should be charged and which should be grounded, no matter if they're purple, green, or polka dotted. From personal experience people hack up any harness they can find to put together a plug and play setup for these lights, so your colors are understandably not the same as DA9's.

http://www.mypage.tsn.cc/roddqld/socket_wiring_diagram.jpg

So on each side my suggestion is run your low to your ballast pos, your high to your solenoid pos, and your grounds either into the ground on the H4 (9003) plug or any chassis ground.

But this is based more on what should work rather than an understanding of how exactly the hi/lo solenoid operates. I've only run 02/03 halogens and facelift CTR HID's (so I had an entirely different bulb for highs).

right on ill give that a shot. thanks for the information

Red_liner740
01-22-2012, 06:04 PM
^^ There might be a problem with that.

if the oem HID works by removing the shield for high beam, wiring up the solenoid to high beam +'ve and ballast to low beam +'ve wont work.

When you turn on your high beams you will activate the solenoid but deactivate the low beam killing the ballast power.

I just played all day wiring up my projector retrofit to my 02 SIR. you have to use a relay kit for bi-xenon conversions...it plugs directly into the oem 3 wire connector plus additional wire to battery and two ground points. It uses low beam power to turn on the igniters through a relay and uses the high beam power as signal line to the solenoid.

Draw7Seven
01-22-2012, 08:18 PM
^^ There might be a problem with that.

if the oem HID works by removing the shield for high beam, wiring up the solenoid to high beam +'ve and ballast to low beam +'ve wont work.

When you turn on your high beams you will activate the solenoid but deactivate the low beam killing the ballast power.

I just played all day wiring up my projector retrofit to my 02 SIR. you have to use a relay kit for bi-xenon conversions...it plugs directly into the oem 3 wire connector plus additional wire to battery and two ground points. It uses low beam power to turn on the igniters through a relay and uses the high beam power as signal line to the solenoid.

You're right, of course. Our high switch is going to do just that: give power to the solenoid instead of the ballast rather than in addition to. You can either run a relay as suggested or there's a way to do it without, if I can track down Ocelaris and Talon's old posts...

DA9_GSR
01-23-2012, 04:53 PM
....if I can track down Ocelaris and Talon's old posts...

I'd like that. I'd love to see how he did it. The OEM 02-03 EP3's have three wires going into the headlight bulbs. One power and two grounds (lo ground and hi ground). All I did was add a second power wire. One goes into the igniter / ballast, the other goes to the hi beam solenoid. The igniter / ballast gets grounded to the bumper beam (the already a cluster of grounds there), and the hi solenoid get grounded the same way the OEM hi beam circuit gets grounded. My colors are obviously different than yours. I apologize for that, but if you apply this to your swap it'll work great.

DA9_GSR
01-23-2012, 05:08 PM
You need a test light.

Connect all your connectors and turn the lights on. Attach your test light to the battery negative. Backprobe each of the wires in the headlight conenctor and whichever one lights up is your power wire to the headlights. Note the wire color.

With your low beams on, attach you test light to the battery positive. Backprobe each of the wires in the headlight conenctor and whichever one lights up is your ground wire for the low circuit. Note the wire color.

With your high beams on, attach you test light to the battery positive. Backprobe each of the wires in the headlight conenctor and whichever one lights up is your ground wire for the high circuit. Note the wire color.

Do this to each side and note the wire colors. Once you have that figured come back on here and we'll go from there.

Cool?

Draw7Seven
01-23-2012, 09:14 PM
I'll see if I can find an opportunity to get those schemes up, they were amazing but I'm not sure they're hosted anywhere or even can be found on the hatch anymore.

DA9_GSR
01-24-2012, 07:28 AM
I'll see if I can find an opportunity to get those schemes up, they were amazing but I'm not sure they're hosted anywhere or even can be found on the hatch anymore.

I'd love to compare. Because I found a contact in Japan and he sent me the OEM wiring diagram for the preface EP3 HID headlights. All I did was mimick it and it works great!

Red_liner740
01-24-2012, 06:11 PM
No, not cool. While in essence this will work, you are confusing the power (12V) and ground.

If you trace the Negative terminal (black cable) from the battery you'll find it just bolts to the frame, hence why this is your ground.

So there are not two "grounds" like you mention, but a common ground and two 12V power lines coming from the fuse box.

Why am i stressing this? because down the line someone will read your explanation and think that +'ve is ground and try to "ground" something to it...causing a short circuit and possible damage to a whole lot of crap.

To add...there are systems out there that use switched negative instead of switched positive. For instance, the light always receives 12V but the ground has a relay/switch/whatever to interrupt the circuit and turn the light on and off....No modern car utilizes this....why? Because if that ground rubs through the insulation and touches the frame you've completed the circuit, but because you completed the circuit past the load, the fuse will never blow...so imagine your headlights always on, your wipers not stopping etc etc.

With switched live side (positive), if the insulation rubs off and it grounds itself to the frame, you created a short circuit and the fuse pops...Its a failsafe.


You need a test light.

Connect all your connectors and turn the lights on. Attach your test light to the battery negative. Backprobe each of the wires in the headlight conenctor and whichever one lights up is your power wire to the headlights. Note the wire color.

With your low beams on, attach you test light to the battery positive. Backprobe each of the wires in the headlight conenctor and whichever one lights up is your ground wire for the low circuit. Note the wire color.

With your high beams on, attach you test light to the battery positive. Backprobe each of the wires in the headlight conenctor and whichever one lights up is your ground wire for the high circuit. Note the wire color.

Do this to each side and note the wire colors. Once you have that figured come back on here and we'll go from there.

Cool?

DA9_GSR
01-24-2012, 07:00 PM
No, not cool. While in essence this will work, you are confusing the power (12V) and ground.

If you trace the Negative terminal (black cable) from the battery you'll find it just bolts to the frame, hence why this is your ground.

So there are not two "grounds" like you mention, but a common ground and two 12V power lines coming from the fuse box.

Why am i stressing this? because down the line someone will read your explanation and think that +'ve is ground and try to "ground" something to it...causing a short circuit and possible damage to a whole lot of crap.

To add...there are systems out there that use switched negative instead of switched positive. For instance, the light always receives 12V but the ground has a relay/switch/whatever to interrupt the circuit and turn the light on and off....No modern car utilizes this....why? Because if that ground rubs through the insulation and touches the frame you've completed the circuit, but because you completed the circuit past the load, the fuse will never blow...so imagine your headlights always on, your wipers not stopping etc etc.

With switched live side (positive), if the insulation rubs off and it grounds itself to the frame, you created a short circuit and the fuse pops...Its a failsafe.

I am not confusing the powers and grounds. Each headlight has one power and two ground wires in their proper connectors. The headlights have two ground wires to the combination switch and one power wire from respective headlight relay (ultimately from the battery positive). One ground wire is for low beams and the other ground wire is for high beams. They come together after the switch and ground together at G401 on the car. Don't make me break out the wiring diagram!

I haven't made a single mistake and if someone cannot read my instructions properly, it's completely their problem. I'm not responsible for someone's mistake due to not being able to read or understand electrical circuitry.

With all due respect, I'm a licensed tech and have been working in the trade long enough to know what the hell I'm talking about. I'm insulted that you're questionning me.

Red_liner740
01-24-2012, 08:10 PM
I'm looking at it right now, and yes i can see where you're coming from, depending on how you've been taught, ground does not start until after the last interrupt. So i read ground as starting after the switch, you read ground as starting before.

And dont starting throwing titles around, cuz i'm a Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer and the wiring diagrams on A/C between the 24VDC, 24VAC, 400V/400Hz electrical make the entire car wiring schematic the same size as the wiring for the toilet light on an Airbus.

nmysiismyn
01-24-2012, 08:12 PM
:grouphug:

Draw7Seven
01-24-2012, 08:52 PM
I want somebody to try this out. I recreated it from memory since the Talon/Ocelaris schematic is no longer hosted on the threads I looked at. Other than memory, I used a couple of other sources across the interwebs. This SHOULD work, but I'm not sure if we've combated the issue of the low beam cutting off when the high beam cuts on. I can't find any mention of that anywhere when I look into how to wire H4 bulbs into modern HID setups. Anyways, I'll continue hosting this or can simply update the image for corrections if people are willing to tell me if it works.

The one I'm basing it off of worked for me for over a year on a TSX retrofit. The trick is I don't own the car anymore and can't find the diagrams ANYWHERE so I'm going from memory... bear with me, no flames. Trying to put up some ephatch resources here.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m166/Draw7Seven/RetroHarness.png

DA9_GSR
01-25-2012, 08:23 AM
I'm looking at it right now, and yes i can see where you're coming from, depending on how you've been taught, ground does not start until after the last interrupt. So i read ground as starting after the switch, you read ground as starting before.

And dont starting throwing titles around, cuz i'm a Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer and the wiring diagrams on A/C between the 24VDC, 24VAC, 400V/400Hz electrical make the entire car wiring schematic the same size as the wiring for the toilet light on an Airbus.

I'm simply implying that I'm not some loser who doesn't know what he's doing. I've had formal training, and know how to read and build wiring schematics. I'm also not making any of this up, I've simply copied what Honda Japan did from factory with their JDM EP3 HID headlight schematics. I've spent countless hours mocking up, bench testing, and calculating my method prior to posting and installing on my vehicle and it works. I've even gone as far as having an electrical engineer guide me through this. It works, and is safe. Case and point.

I'm done with this arguement. Do whatever you want. I'm not liable for anyone elses problems.

BigE19
01-25-2012, 07:39 PM
I'm simply implying that I'm not some loser who doesn't know what he's doing. I've had formal training, and know how to read and build wiring schematics. I'm also not making any of this up, I've simply copied what Honda Japan did from factory with their JDM EP3 HID headlight schematics. I've spent countless hours mocking up, bench testing, and calculating my method prior to posting and installing on my vehicle and it works. I've even gone as far as having an electrical engineer guide me through this. It works, and is safe. Case and point.

I'm done with this arguement. Do whatever you want. I'm not liable for anyone elses problems.ahh i didnt want this to turn into a pissing match. DA9 i know youve already done this swap and you posted to help other. i appreciate it, Im just confused on some certain wires. Shouldnt be hard to work out. Thanks everyone thats chimed in. ill post up soon with the outcome

Draw7Seven
01-25-2012, 08:58 PM
I really suggest a fused relay harness on any H4 to HID setup, but I don't have an engineering degree or any electrical training.